News Article: Nazem Kadri: Wrongly Undervalued In Leafs Nation

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TMLegend

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May 27, 2012
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But he was given third line minutes and 3rd liners on his wings and didn't get much power play time - seems unreasonable to expect top six point production, no?

He played 17:36 a game this past season with 2:28 of that being a PP time. While it is true he had a revolving door of wingers, his production was unacceptable considering the player he is and the ice-time he received.

Nazem has alot to prove to me, and frankly, I don't think he's up to the task.
 

ponder

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Jul 11, 2007
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I won't be shocked if he's our top forward this coming season. He's talented, he works hard, and the main reason not to have him on the top line in the past is that he wasn't a good fit with Kessel. With Phil gone, I won't be surprised if Kadri really steps up and shines. I see our top line being Kadri, JVR, and one of Lupul/Panik/Komarov.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
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I find it curious that people think more PP time is going to show us how amazing Kadri really is when he averages 2:28 in PP minutes per game and had all of 7 points to show for.

Morgan Rielly is a defenseman, and he got the same amount of time on the second unit, and he picked up 9 points.

Marian Hossa averaged 2:28 on the second PP unit on Chicago and put up 17 points.

Eric Staal averaged 2:36 and scored 17 points.

Gabriel Landeskog averaged 2:29 and scored 17 points.

Patrice Bergeron averaged 2:20 and scored 14 points.

Mark Stone averaged 2:23 and scored 13 points.

In fact, Kadri ranks 217th in PP points production despite being ranked 146th in PP icetime in the entire league.

So why is the answer to Kadri's mediocrity more PP time when he hasn't even been good on it?
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
79,369
54,895
I won't be shocked if he's our top forward this coming season. He's talented, he works hard, and the main reason not to have him on the top line in the past is that he wasn't a good fit with Kessel. With Phil gone, I won't be surprised if Kadri really steps up and shines. I see our top line being Kadri, JVR, and one of Lupul/Panik/Komarov.

Not always, only when prodded.
 

Semantics

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Jan 3, 2007
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He played 17:36 a game this past season with 2:28 of that being a PP time. While it is true he had a revolving door of wingers, his production was unacceptable considering the player he is and the ice-time he received.

What player is he? What planet do you live on? Do you realize that 39 points puts Kadri 128th in scoring, which makes him an above average 2nd liner?

And that's not adjusting for games missed; if you do, he becomes an elite 2nd liner.

So if you think Kadri underachieved, you're basically saying he's a bona fide 1st liner (no matter his linemates). Am I interpreting you correctly?
 

mikebel111*

Guest
Not always, only when prodded.

Than your ignoring facts than again Kadri critics love making up garbage. He always works hard. Good on D now. Actually cares about GA. Very good effort in all zones and is a great player.
Looks like Babcock and Dubas like him. Thats Enough for me.
 

mikebel111*

Guest
Thanks for the link. Speaks the truth. Than again Leafs nation will be upset an article says accurate and nice things by Kadri.
So many great things about Kadri
Physical
Confidence
No attitude issues
Cleaned up off ice
Penalty drawer(doesnt dive)
Good on D
Coaches love him(Babcock, Randy, Eakins, Hunter, Spott etc...)
Good on PP aside from last season
Possession player( so much for it being overrated. Just ask Chicago if its overrated)

Also teammates love him

#beauty
#canwinwithhim
#makespeoplemad

Also he doesnt make excuses like #42 is bad and its all Kessel's fault
 

darrylsittler27

Registered User
Oct 21, 2002
6,795
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Because he is gone?

I find it curious that people think more PP time is going to show us how amazing Kadri really is when he averages 2:28 in PP minutes per game and had all of 7 points to show for.

Morgan Rielly is a defenseman, and he got the same amount of time on the second unit, and he picked up 9 points.

Marian Hossa averaged 2:28 on the second PP unit on Chicago and put up 17 points.

Eric Staal averaged 2:36 and scored 17 points.

Gabriel Landeskog averaged 2:29 and scored 17 points.

Patrice Bergeron averaged 2:20 and scored 14 points.

Mark Stone averaged 2:23 and scored 13 points.

In fact, Kadri ranks 217th in PP points production despite being ranked 146th in PP icetime in the entire league.

So why is the answer to Kadri's mediocrity more PP time when he hasn't even been good on it?

If Kadri doesn't produce now , he never will. Frankly, I think he is over rated. He won't get the cash but he will look his best for TD.
 

TMLegend

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May 27, 2012
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What player is he? What planet do you live on? Do you realize that 39 points puts Kadri 128th in scoring, which makes him an above average 2nd liner?

A offense first player with limited defensive acumen. He was also 183rd in points/60 among forwards this past season, which makes him a great 3rd liner, or a bottom of the barrel 2nd liner. A far cry from what he's made out to be here.

FWIW, even Tyler Bozak was above him.

In simple terms, he's terrible.
 
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Mats13

Registered User
Apr 22, 2015
6,429
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Or its the many other well documents and argued out reasons people don't like Kadri. Just because you don't agree with them (and to an extent management as they are reluctant to sign him long term) doesn't mean you should insult. Kadri is not a #1, he's not even a top tier #2.

List them. Otherwise don't bother spewing nonsense.

With all this hype I'm expecting him to lead us the playoffs. I mean Kessel usually had us in the hunt until the last month and Kadri is better, so that should be playoffs then.

:huh: Have you seen our roster? Hockey is a team sport...

Who undervalues Kadri? Everyone just points to his 5 on 5 and boasts what a diamond in the rough he is while turning a blind eye to his laziness, his lack of size, overall production (39 points), blames his linemates, his coach, his suspension... all the smart marks give this guy a pass.

Prove the bolded or just stop making things up.
 

Banic

Registered User
Jun 23, 2010
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I'm just looking forward to next year because then we'll finally (hopefully) have an answer. If he succeeds great. If not, then I'm hoping all of his apologists will finally admit it and stop making excuses.
 

mikebel111*

Guest
Another great thing is the Kadri fans are fair and great
They point out faults and give praise when needed.
They make no excuses unlike our fake #42 1st line C.
Next season should be fun when TB has a bad season because with him thinking he is elite so he doesnt try and excuses come like "its all Phil's fault". Well that excuse wont work anymore. I am hoping the Kadri critics actually give praise when Nazem continues to look great and not calling the fans "apologists and fanboys"
Also hope the excuses for TB stop.
Though I can see it alteady. " TB needs bettet wingers"
#nomoreexcuses
 

mikebel111*

Guest
Kadri is one heck of a player and that makes people/Frattin fans upset.
 

mikebel111*

Guest
I will leave this here. For people who think Kadri gets a free pass in this city. These are 2 posts from 2 posters


Post #1

Ulf, Nazem Kadri is the best forward the Leafs have drafted, developed internally, and have kept (at least so far) since Wendel Clark.The people calling him a bust are idiots. He is nowhere near that.*The fact is, he is pretty damn good, and he appears to be getting much better this year.The threads are derailed by his detractors, who broadcast thinly veiled attacks with major biases and pretend to pass them off as objective analysis.How many times have I read that Kadri will never develop defensively, or that his faceoffs can't improve?These were slights on a 23 year old player. Suggesting that a 23 year old can't improve significantly suggests bias, and likely a lack of life experience, to be frank.The more that the nonsensical arguments of his detractors are allowed to go on, the more the Kadri supporters will rush to defend him.The same thing happens in the Bozak thread, in reverse, albeit not as severely.Anyone who reads a Kadri thread knows who the culprits are that incite rage in the supporters.

Post #2
Nobody is placing him above the team. That's what you don't understand. People like you are the reason why fans here have a bad reputation, because you guys create controversies out of nothing. You keep saying things that aren't true.Free pass? FREE PASS? Are you ****ing kidding me ULF? Do you even try anymore?*You know damn right*Kadri*has never gotten a free pass, from the day he was drafted. Everyone wanted MPS/Cowen if Brayden Schenn couldn't be had. Then people fabricate stories about his attitude issues and supposed 'issues' with coaches, yet Deboer, Hunter and Carlyle have all had positive things to say about him. Then at the World Juniors, he gets blamed for the U.S. OT goal, even though it was Pietrangelo who pinched up and chased after the puck in the offensive zone. Then*Kadri*doesn't tear it up at his second training camp, and he takes more heat from fans and media, including a ridiculous picture of him with a pacifier in his mouth on the Toronto Sun front page.*After playing very well in the AHL, he gets called up and does decently, only for Ronnie Wilson to throw him under the bus and say he has nasty habits even though he scored 2 assists and was one of the best forwards all game. Later on he gets yo-yo'd between the AHL and NHL, and is forced to play the wing even though he's clearly better at centre. The following training camp, he plays relatively well, but gets injured partway through, while everyone is gushing over Matt Frattin and saying how Frattin is apparently miles better than*Kadri, with even Ronnie boy picking favourites.*Kadri*also adds mass like everyone wanted, but surprise surprise, his mobility is now hindered and he takes heat for that too of course. Finally, Rotten Ronnie is eventually fired, and Carlyle comes in and shows confidence in*Kadri.Oh and here comes the best part,*Kadriworks out with Roberts for the off-season, is noticeably stronger, leaner and faster, yet he's thrown under the bus for supposedly being fat and out of shape, which couldn't be further from the truth when his body fat had actually decreased from the prior year. After a slow start in the AHL, he tears it up and looks much faster and stronger on the ice, and it's clear that Roberts' training paid off. Of course, we all know what happened once the NHL season finally started again, and how he tore it up. But even then, he has detractors who say complain about him going cold at the end of the season and not dominating the playoffs, despite it being his first time actually sticking with the team for more than a few games.*And now this year, his first full season, he goes through a slump like any young player does yet gets blasted again and is subject to constant trade rumours from Darren Dreger, meanwhile linemate Joffrey Lupul is the one who ACTUALLY gets a free pass. And look,*Kadri*is producing now meanwhile Lupul is still not playing that well. Not to mention how Mason Raymond totally destroyed that line when he was on it.*As for the Kessel/JVR stuff, nobody said it was their 'fault'. A few people have criticized effort level, and to be honest the entire team minus the goalies and maybe Phaneuf were pretty damn underwhelming in that stretch during November and early December. Also, it's clear that*Kadri*simply doesn't have chemistry with both JVR and Kessel on his line. Kessel's stats are actually better with*Kadri*as his centre than anyone else, but it's a small sample size so I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock into it. However, JVR's production decreases. Watching the games, it was pretty damn obvious why.*Kadri*is the best possession player on the team, and he needs the puck on his stick...then you have Kessel who also needs the puck. When the two of them are together, JVR gets completely neutralized in the process, which is exactly what happened. Bozak fits better because he peels back and lets Kessel carry the puck and transition with JVR.So yeah, please don't ever say 'free pass' ever again, it just shows that this fanbase really has no idea what the hell they are talking about. Any other team except maybe Montreal would be glad to have a 23 year old talented centre who has the 3rd highest PPG from his draft class only behind studs like Tavares and Duchene.
 

The Man with a Plan

Registered User
Dec 19, 2008
3,338
1,912
Victoria BC
I will leave this here. For people who think Kadri gets a free pass in this city. These are 2 posts from 2 posters


Post #1

Ulf, Nazem Kadri is the best forward the Leafs have drafted, developed internally, and have kept (at least so far) since Wendel Clark.The people calling him a bust are idiots. He is nowhere near that.*The fact is, he is pretty damn good, and he appears to be getting much better this year.The threads are derailed by his detractors, who broadcast thinly veiled attacks with major biases and pretend to pass them off as objective analysis.How many times have I read that Kadri will never develop defensively, or that his faceoffs can't improve?These were slights on a 23 year old player. Suggesting that a 23 year old can't improve significantly suggests bias, and likely a lack of life experience, to be frank.The more that the nonsensical arguments of his detractors are allowed to go on, the more the Kadri supporters will rush to defend him.The same thing happens in the Bozak thread, in reverse, albeit not as severely.Anyone who reads a Kadri thread knows who the culprits are that incite rage in the supporters.

Post #2
Nobody is placing him above the team. That's what you don't understand. People like you are the reason why fans here have a bad reputation, because you guys create controversies out of nothing. You keep saying things that aren't true.Free pass? FREE PASS? Are you ****ing kidding me ULF? Do you even try anymore?*You know damn right*Kadri*has never gotten a free pass, from the day he was drafted. Everyone wanted MPS/Cowen if Brayden Schenn couldn't be had. Then people fabricate stories about his attitude issues and supposed 'issues' with coaches, yet Deboer, Hunter and Carlyle have all had positive things to say about him. Then at the World Juniors, he gets blamed for the U.S. OT goal, even though it was Pietrangelo who pinched up and chased after the puck in the offensive zone. Then*Kadri*doesn't tear it up at his second training camp, and he takes more heat from fans and media, including a ridiculous picture of him with a pacifier in his mouth on the Toronto Sun front page.*After playing very well in the AHL, he gets called up and does decently, only for Ronnie Wilson to throw him under the bus and say he has nasty habits even though he scored 2 assists and was one of the best forwards all game. Later on he gets yo-yo'd between the AHL and NHL, and is forced to play the wing even though he's clearly better at centre. The following training camp, he plays relatively well, but gets injured partway through, while everyone is gushing over Matt Frattin and saying how Frattin is apparently miles better than*Kadri, with even Ronnie boy picking favourites.*Kadri*also adds mass like everyone wanted, but surprise surprise, his mobility is now hindered and he takes heat for that too of course. Finally, Rotten Ronnie is eventually fired, and Carlyle comes in and shows confidence in*Kadri.Oh and here comes the best part,*Kadriworks out with Roberts for the off-season, is noticeably stronger, leaner and faster, yet he's thrown under the bus for supposedly being fat and out of shape, which couldn't be further from the truth when his body fat had actually decreased from the prior year. After a slow start in the AHL, he tears it up and looks much faster and stronger on the ice, and it's clear that Roberts' training paid off. Of course, we all know what happened once the NHL season finally started again, and how he tore it up. But even then, he has detractors who say complain about him going cold at the end of the season and not dominating the playoffs, despite it being his first time actually sticking with the team for more than a few games.*And now this year, his first full season, he goes through a slump like any young player does yet gets blasted again and is subject to constant trade rumours from Darren Dreger, meanwhile linemate Joffrey Lupul is the one who ACTUALLY gets a free pass. And look,*Kadri*is producing now meanwhile Lupul is still not playing that well. Not to mention how Mason Raymond totally destroyed that line when he was on it.*As for the Kessel/JVR stuff, nobody said it was their 'fault'. A few people have criticized effort level, and to be honest the entire team minus the goalies and maybe Phaneuf were pretty damn underwhelming in that stretch during November and early December. Also, it's clear that*Kadri*simply doesn't have chemistry with both JVR and Kessel on his line. Kessel's stats are actually better with*Kadri*as his centre than anyone else, but it's a small sample size so I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock into it. However, JVR's production decreases. Watching the games, it was pretty damn obvious why.*Kadri*is the best possession player on the team, and he needs the puck on his stick...then you have Kessel who also needs the puck. When the two of them are together, JVR gets completely neutralized in the process, which is exactly what happened. Bozak fits better because he peels back and lets Kessel carry the puck and transition with JVR.So yeah, please don't ever say 'free pass' ever again, it just shows that this fanbase really has no idea what the hell they are talking about. Any other team except maybe Montreal would be glad to have a 23 year old talented centre who has the 3rd highest PPG from his draft class only behind studs like Tavares and Duchene.

Very well said. :handclap:

I personally cannot wait to see some of the critics and so called fans eating a plate of Crow. Kadri is going to have a great year and Babcock and company are going to do wonders with him.
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
70,280
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I find it curious that people think more PP time is going to show us how amazing Kadri really is when he averages 2:28 in PP minutes per game and had all of 7 points to show for.

Morgan Rielly is a defenseman, and he got the same amount of time on the second unit, and he picked up 9 points.

Marian Hossa averaged 2:28 on the second PP unit on Chicago and put up 17 points.

Eric Staal averaged 2:36 and scored 17 points.

Gabriel Landeskog averaged 2:29 and scored 17 points.

Patrice Bergeron averaged 2:20 and scored 14 points.

Mark Stone averaged 2:23 and scored 13 points.

In fact, Kadri ranks 217th in PP points production despite being ranked 146th in PP icetime in the entire league.

So why is the answer to Kadri's mediocrity more PP time when he hasn't even been good on it?

I'm going to be blunt here. None of those people had to play with David Clarkson on the powerplay unit. Clarkson was horrible, just dreadful .
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
70,280
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mike.. i'd really, really really would like to read that, but you have to seriously add some paragraph breaks in there.
 

hfman

Registered User
Oct 30, 2013
3,197
1,535
wow this is crazy



The Leafs' 1-year deal is telling Kadri that he has his chance to prove himself this year and if not, see ya later. I agree with that totally. I'm surprised he's even been given another chance this year. So far he's been hit-and-miss, mostly miss, his entire career. Flashes of brilliance mixed in with.. nothing. A few pretty goals... but amongst that, absolutely nothing. Oh but wait it's Carlyle's fault or Kessel's fault or Wayne Gretzky's fault. Ok.

Damn - is it any more complicated that that? Some of these posts are sinking into mathematical black holes with these ridiculous, microscopic "stats"... the guy is either NHL cailber or not. Who cares if he was on the ice for 28% of Leaf powerplays or if he was off the ice for 64% of opposing team goals or whatever... some of this "statistic" stuff reaches depths that are too embarassing to mention... the guy is either a true asset and a hard player for this team or not. So far, he's been walking the line. Period. This year, MLSE is telling him to either walk above the line, or sink. Man up, or don't man up. Up to him, But right now, I'd guess that the majority of Leaf nation still see Kadri as kid, who's full of juvenile, immature responses in interviews and not ready to go in the ice on a daily basis. Definitely not a warrior type player, who's ready to battle hard for 82 games. Fight hard for a few games, and take the rest of the nights off. In other words, a big disappointment. A Waste or potential talent. Trust me when I say that the majority of adult (older) Leaf fans say this. He's a shame, because he looks like he's gonna cash his mil this year and then fade. They're just not sure on him, and truly do doubt him. Like most of us.

Babcock is all about true warrior, fighting-type players. That's what Detroit was during his entire stay. Real men, real warriors, fighting hockey players who played to win. And well, they won staneley cups.

Kadri? One of those types? That's a laugh. Big time. There are men, like the ones that played for Detroit all those years and won cups - and then there's.. Kadri. Not even in the same universe.

You guys think Babcock will stand for that? If Kadri floats again this season, Babcock will bench Kadri's ass until they can get rid of him. And with Babcock, he has the power to actually do that.I hate to say this, but I've always loved Kadri's youthful vigor - but it's worn off now - he's a little older -and has done nothing all these years. Grow up man, start playing - or else.



Either way - the guy cashes in 4 million+ bucks. Pretty good deal eh? Keep it in perspective, people. Don't get attached to this. Rich, millionares making more per game than we do in an entire year. We work hard 365 days a year , while Kadri might show up for a few games. Keep your eyes open people. Enjoy the entertainment but don't drown in it.
 
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The_Chosen_One

Registered User
Jul 4, 2006
6,285
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Melbourne, Australia
I'm going to be blunt here. None of those people had to play with David Clarkson on the powerplay unit. Clarkson was horrible, just dreadful .
Yeah our secondary power play unit was atrocious. Clarkson was hopeless because he couldn't find his game.

Kadri, on the other hand, played a solid game. He just didn't perform as much on the PP end and that should change with stronger linemates.
 

The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
70,878
21,165
I find it curious that people think more PP time is going to show us how amazing Kadri really is when he averages 2:28 in PP minutes per game and had all of 7 points to show for.

Morgan Rielly is a defenseman, and he got the same amount of time on the second unit, and he picked up 9 points.

Marian Hossa averaged 2:28 on the second PP unit on Chicago and put up 17 points.

Eric Staal averaged 2:36 and scored 17 points.

Gabriel Landeskog averaged 2:29 and scored 17 points.

Patrice Bergeron averaged 2:20 and scored 14 points.

Mark Stone averaged 2:23 and scored 13 points.

In fact, Kadri ranks 217th in PP points production despite being ranked 146th in PP icetime in the entire league.

So why is the answer to Kadri's mediocrity more PP time when he hasn't even been good on it?

Never have I read so many excuses made for a player on a year by year basis. When his 5 on 5 play suffered in the 2013-14 season. His PP stats, which was the 2nd most points 17 to Kessel's 18 made his stats somewhat respectable with his only 50 point season thus far in his career. Now the refrain is he is to be only measured on 5v5 stats and the PP should not be held against him.

Kadri ranks 217th in PP points production despite being ranked 146th in PP icetime. The facts are he has yet to put in a full season of top 5 on 5 play, coupled with solid PP time.

He had soild PP production in 13-14 season. 17 points second on the team. However, His 5 on 5 play was below average at -11.

Last season he was ok on 5 on 5(relative to how bad the team was when Horachek took over), but he was not productive on the PP. Coupled with his non improving faceoff numbers we have a player that is not moving fwd, but is still trying to find himself in the NHL.

Leafs recognize the inconsistency in these bridge years. Coupled with the historical off ice problems, this is the reason why he was signed to a 1 year contract. Again I applaud the Leafs Mgt for making people in the organization earning their worth. As they have for Kadri who will be 25 when the season starts. The potential tag has a limited lifespan.
 

Reddaye

Registered User
Nov 1, 2011
1,564
19
New Brunswick
Undervalue? If anything I think he's given a free pass by the fanbase more than he's ever ridiculed.

Ulf, Nazem Kadri is the best forward the Leafs have drafted, developed internally, and have kept (at least so far) since Wendel Clark.

This isn't really saying a lot considering our drafting history.


As far as Kadri goes, I still think he's going to be a good #2C, but he has to start showing it on the scoreboard, and improving his face offs. If his icetime goes up and his point totals match, that's great. If he continues to develop defensively, and improves his face offs, great. He frankly needs to be better at face offs. This has been an ongoing problem for years, yet he still lags behind in a key area of center ice play. An area that is entirely under his own control to improve. Why isn't he given top minutes in PP or PK? Well, it would be good if he could be relied on to win the draw to give the time it's much needed possession.

If management felt for certain he was able to put everything together, there wouldn't be a bridge deal signed. The fact is that management isn't willing to commit long term to Kadri until he shows them he's worth the commitment.

This season is his chance to show he's got what it takes to soldify himself in the League as a top six player. Of course, the issue is if he doesn't, fans will blame a rotating cast of poor line mates. Which is partially a problem, but he's got to be willing to take the onus on himself and show what he can do.
 

The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
70,878
21,165
Tavares recently said Kadri was one of the most talented teammates he has ever had ...
Couldn't agree more.

Kadri should have been give the 1C job about 1.5 seasons ago. he has the pedigree (OHL scorer, first round selection, local boy), some grit, great skills ... and has developed his two way game.

For God sakes please trade Bozak and put Kadri on the top line and first PP ...

Do you know who led the Leafs in PP goals last season? This player produced.

Bottom line I suspect is, if players produce they will get the carrot this year. Player who do not will get the stick.

You don't simply bench your most productive PP goal scorer to accommodate favourite players, we are trying to eliminate entitlement off this roster to a more accountable culture. Most I have read here want this.
 

LeafSteel

GO LEAFS GO!!!
Mar 5, 2014
5,801
8,803
Toronto
I would like to see Kadri come with a work effort to match his skill.

If he brings it, he'll have a masterful season. If he doesn't, he's going to be shown the door. If he can't deliver for a coach like Babcock, he's never going to get it and take his place with other's past who's effort couldn't match their skill, and their potential went without being fully realized.

Being a Leaf fan, I hope Kadri get's his act together and lights it up. No more excuses, just play hard, dammit.

BB
 
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