Value of: Nazem Kadri and Timothy Liljegren for Dougie Hamilton and Sam Bennett

[yzerman]

Could this workout for both teams?or do you think someone adds a piece?

Sam Bennett could be a good centerman perhaps in range of 50-60p and could do most of the things Kadri does but maybe in a couple of years but with higher upside as a player and in best case a really good player with the capacity of 60-70p.

Dougie Hamilton with high value immediately boost Maple leafs defence as a true nr 1 Right handed defenceman and gets Toronto in win mode next season and who only gets better and still is young.

Calgary gets Nazem Kadri needs no bigger presentation and could go in as their nr 2 center and really strengthen their team, and a Nr 1 pick this year for the leafs in Timothy Liljegren which could be a really good nr 1 defenceman in couple of years.

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[sansabri]

Brutal for the Flames. Leafs would have to add tonnes.

 

[Jerkini]

This is ridiculously lopsided. I wouldn't trade Doug Hamilton for Kadri and Lilgegren alone, let alone adding Sam Bennett as well. Leafs fan.

 

[Morgs]

How is Calgary losing this exactly?

Dougie has turned into a good Top-4 offensive defenseman, who's partner is clearly carrying him. Kadri has turned into a 1B C that succeeds (not to a great extent) in a shutdown role, while putting up 60+ points. At best I'd say equal value, but the Leafs wouldn't do Kadri for Dougie.

I don't think you'd find a single Leafs fan that would trade Liljegren for Bennett.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Calgary would be much better off banking on Bennett to close some of the gap on Kadri. Hamilton is way too steep of a price to pay for that upgrade and I don't see Liljegren or other futures changing their mind.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Thanks, needed a good laugh

 

[CgyFlamesftw]

How is Calgary losing this exactly?

Dougie has turned into a good Top-4 offensive defenseman, who's partner is clearly carrying him. Kadri has turned into a 1B C that succeeds (not to a great extent) in a shutdown role, while putting up 60+ points. At best I'd say equal value, but the Leafs wouldn't do Kadri for Dougie.

I don't think you'd find a single Leafs fan that would trade Liljegren for Bennett.

Calgary doesn't need kadri at all. They have backlund. And one of them would drop to 3rd line, makes no sense.

 

[Morgs]

Calgary doesn't need kadri at all. They have backlund. And one of them would drop to 3rd line, makes no sense.

Yeah, I'm aware. I'm not sure why either team would accept or propose this trade.

I'm just confused as to why I'm seeing 'Calgary gets hosed' when the value in a vacuum really isn't far off.

 

[Jerkini]

How is Calgary losing this exactly?

Dougie has turned into a good Top-4 offensive defenseman, who's partner is clearly carrying him. Kadri has turned into a 1B C that succeeds (not to a great extent) in a shutdown role, while putting up 60+ points. At best I'd say equal value, but the Leafs wouldn't do Kadri for Dougie.

I don't think you'd find a single Leafs fan that would trade Liljegren for Bennett.

Come on, dude. Hamilton threw up 50 points last season as a defender and has been a consistent 40 point producer his whole career to date.

Would anyone trade Morgan Rielly for Nazem Kadri? Of course not. And you could make a legitimate case that Hamilton is better than Rielly.

 

[AppsSyl]

No from this Leafs fan. Kadri is tough to replace. Liljegren has lots of upside and the potential to be the best player in the deal, and Bennett has not lived up t his billing thus far. Hamilton is a beast though.

 

[Morgs]

Come on, dude. Hamilton threw up 50 points last season as a defender and has been a consistent 40 point producer his whole career to date.

Would anyone trade Morgan Rielly for Nazem Kadri? Of course not. And you could make a legitimate case that Hamilton is better than Rielly.

Points aren't everything for a defender. Hamilton proved again last year that even with a great defensive partner that carries him, his defense isn't worth ****.

I personally would trade Rielly/Hamilton for Kadri (in a vacuum), because not only is he great offensively (better than his pure stats indicate) he's also a net positive defensively while playing in a shutdown role... unlike Hamilton. Oh, and his contract is one of the best in the league while playing a premium position.

 

[Morgs]

This is why people can't stand leaves fans...

Lol prove one thing I said wrong. God Leaves fans are da worst.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Points aren't everything for a defender. Hamilton proved again last year that even with a great defensive partner that carries him, his defense isn't worth ****.

I personally would trade Rielly/Hamilton for Kadri, because not only is he great offensively (better than his pure stats indicate) he's also a net positive defensively while playing in a shutdown role... unlike Hamilton. Oh, and his contract is one of the best in the league while playing a premium position.

You shouldn't talk about what you don't understand. Giordano and Hamilton were, from an advanced stats perspective, by far the best pairing in the NHL 5 on 5 last year.

Only Burns had a higher 5 on 5 p/60 then Hamilton last year. If he had played PP 1 he likely would have had 65+ points last year...

 

[CgyFlamesftw]

Points aren't everything for a defender. Hamilton proved again last year that even with a great defensive partner that carries him, his defense isn't worth ****.

I personally would trade Rielly/Hamilton for Kadri, because not only is he great offensively (better than his pure stats indicate) he's also a net positive defensively while playing in a shutdown role... unlike Hamilton. Oh, and his contract is one of the best in the league while playing a premium position.

Hamilton is fine in his own zone. All we hear on these boards are how Hamilton and Brodie get carried by Gio. If that's the cause maybe giordano should be considered a top 5 defenseman.

 

[Taytro]

Neither team does this. Liljigren will be an absolute monster and fits in Toronto's age range. Dougie fits in Calgarys. Toronto will need the ELC/ bridge on Liljigren when they start getting into cap trouble with resignings and Hamilton (despite being on a reasonable deal) would make it more difficult.

Value wise, i think Liljigren makes up the different between Kadri and Hamilton. I'm Really high on Kadri though so I might be a bit bias. I don't see Bennet having any real value right now to anyone outside the flames organization. But both teams say no regardless.

 

[SEALBound]

YeeeeOUCH for Calgary. Hard no from them.

 

[belair]

Too early for Liljegren. He has value but he's a wild card at this point. He doesn't do much for the Flames at this point.

 

[Morgs]

You shouldn't talk about what you don't understand. Giordano and Hamilton were, from an advanced stats perspective, by far the best pairing in the NHL 5 on 5 last year.

Only Burns had a higher 5 on 5 p/60 then Hamilton last year. If he had played PP 1 he likely would have had 65+ points last year...

Yikes.

Basic advanced stats don't tell the full story on how good a player is. You can talk all day about those stats, but their value only goes so far especially when it lacks context. Although they *should* be part of the evalutation process, there are so many different things that can be perceived from any one stat. That's why I've started buying into GAR a lot more than previously, because of exactly what is put into the equation. Hamilton based on DTM's GAR was a -2.3 in 5v5 defensive value. Giordano on the other hand was +3.5.

I would not trade Kadri straight up for him.

 

[Trapper]

The hardest thing to trade for is chemistry.
Right now, what the Leafs are putting together (Kadri included) is working. We are progressing.
We need to add a missing piece or 2 to that. Liljegren could be the answer to one.
We don't need to change the team drastically by overpaying what HF boards thinks.
Calgary got Hamonic and Hamilton for draft picks but expect Marner/Nylander + in return.
We will wait for the right deal for us.

 

[Morgs]

Hamilton is fine in his own zone. All we hear on these boards are how Hamilton and Brodie get carried by Gio. If that's the cause maybe giordano should be considered a top 5 defenseman.

Brodie is your best defenseman, and definitely is not being carried by Giordano.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Dougie has turned into a good Top-4 offensive defenseman, who's partner is clearly carrying him.

This is like saying any of the following:


Stralman carried Hedman
Markov carried Subban
Subban carried Ekholm
Weber carried Josi
Campbell carried Ekblad
Methot carried Karlsson


Basically? It's garbage. Hamilton has a partner who compliments him, but he's a top pair defensemen who also compliments his partner. Together they formed the best defense pair in the NHL, you don't do that with one player carrying the other.

I don't think you'd find a single Leafs fan that would trade Liljegren for Bennett.

We passed on Liljegren for Juuso Valimaki, and I don't think you'd find a single Flames fan who thinks Valimaki is a more valuable piece than Bennett. Classic Leafs fans. Even if Liljegren were to turn out marginally better than Valimaki, they're both multiple tiers below Sam Bennett as of today. Homer goggles aside.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

lol @ anyone saying this sucks for the flames.

hamilton~kadri
bennett<liljegren

 

[VoluntaryDom]

We passed on Liljegren for Juuso Valimaki, and I don't think you'd find a single Flames fan who thinks Valimaki is a more valuable piece than Bennett. Classic Leafs fans. Even if Liljegren were to turn out marginally better than Valimaki, they're both multiple tiers below Sam Bennett as of today. Homer goggles aside.

valimaki>Bennett and I like bennett

 

[Morgs]

This is like saying any of the following:


Stralman carried Hedman false, they're both amazing
Markov carried Subban false[/, they're both amazingB]
Subban carried Ekholm false, they're both amazing
Weber carried Josi Josi carried Weber
Campbell carried Ekblad true
Methot carried Karlsson LOL


Basically? It's garbage. Hamilton has a partner who compliments him, but he's a top pair defensemen who also compliments his partner. Together they formed the best defense pair in the NHL, you don't do that with one player carrying the other.





We passed on Liljegren for Juuso Valimaki, and I don't think you'd find a single Flames fan who thinks Valimaki is a more valuable piece than Bennett. Classic Leafs fans. Even if Liljegren were to turn out marginally better than Valimaki, they're both multiple tiers below Sam Bennett as of today. Homer goggles aside.

Bolded.

"Best defensive pair in the NHL" Lol, do you guys actually believe that? I mean Klefbom-Larsson is a better pair, and Larsson really isn't anything special.

We're allowed to value our prospects however we want, and really Bennett (who I do like) has shown very little since being in the NHL that he will be anything more than a 3C. Why trade away a prospect with all the potential in the world for a guy who really hasn't done anything since being drafted?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hamilton>Kadri and Bennett>Liljegren in value, so I don't really get this trade at all from a Flames POV. Not to mention the Flames absolutely don't need another center, they already have Monahan, Backlund, Bennett and Jankowski down the middle.