Value of: Nazem Kadri and Timothy Liljegren for Dougie Hamilton and Sam Bennett

[Rangediddy]

lol @ anyone saying this sucks for the flames.

hamilton~kadri
bennett<liljegren

I don't think the ~ means what you think it means.

 

[CgyFlamesftw]

lol @ anyone saying this sucks for the flames.

hamilton~kadri
bennett<liljegren

It's brutal. Defenseman are worth more than centers and he's a shutdown center.

 

[DopeyFish]

if they'd offer bennett and hamilton for kadri the answer would still be no

 

[Empoleon8771]

if they'd offer bennett and hamilton for kadri the answer would still be no

Lol. Homerism at its finest.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I'd be all over that deal. We'd have to restructure line usage, but it would be worth it.

 

[Trapper]

It's brutal. Defenseman are worth more than centers and he's a shutdown center.

It depends on the defenseman, the need and the willingness to trade.
Sometimes Hall is worth Larsson, for some teams he isn't.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Bolded.

"Best defensive pair in the NHL" Lol, do you guys actually believe that? I mean Klefbom-Larsson is a better pair, and Larsson really isn't anything special.

We're allowed to value our prospects however we want, and really Bennett (who I do like) has shown very little since being in the NHL that he will be anything more than a 3C. Why trade away a prospect with all the potential in the world for a guy who really hasn't done anything since being drafted?

Dude stop talking.

They led the NHL in GF% and Shot differentials by wide margins while playing elite competition..

Travis Yost wrote an article that said "Gio and Dougie should share the Norris" and "They put up video game numbers".

Or continue to make your self look foolish. Here take a read. http://www.tsn.ca/hamilton-and-giordano-are-the-best-pairing-in-hockey-1.704373

 

[ManofSteel55]

I wouldn't do Hamilton for Kadri and Liljegren alone, and I don't even really like him that much.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

I don't think the ~ means what you think it means.

~ means about even I think

 

[Roughneck1]

valimaki>Bennett and I like bennett

Not even close at this point, bud.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

God no.

I love what Kadri has become, but I'm still convinced Bennett can become a similar level player in time (Kadri wasn't exactly spectacular at Bennett's age either).

Downgrading Hamilton who at worst is a #3 who puts up 50+ points to a prospect we just passed on is not even in question.

 

[Morgs]

Dude stop talking.

They led the NHL in GF% and Shot differentials by wide margins while playing elite competition..

Travis Yost wrote an article that said "Gio and Dougie should share the Norris" and "They put up video game numbers".

Or continue to make your self look foolish. Here take a read. http://www.tsn.ca/hamilton-and-giordano-are-the-best-pairing-in-hockey-1.704373

Quoting TSN doesn't do/say anything that a 5th grader couldn't figure out. Lol I wouldn't have either one of them in my Top-30 defenseman. Brodie on the other hand is in my Top-20.

GF% is basically PDO. It's one of the most luck driven stats in the league and it is as good a indicator of talent as a goalies GAA. Their shot shares were very good, but that doesn't tell the full story (as I already mentioned). Giordano is very good defensively, Hamilton is very good offensively. They make a good pairing for that reason, and they probably play better together than apart, but individually I doubt they're anything special.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Quoting TSN doesn't do/say anything that a 5th grader couldn't figure out. Lol I wouldn't have either one of them in my Top-30 defenseman. Brodie on the other hand is in my Top-20.

GF% is basically PDO. It's one of the most luck driven stats in the league and it is as good a indicator of talent as a goalies GAA. Their shot shares were very good, but that doesn't tell the full story (as I already mentioned). Giordano is very good defensively, Hamilton is very good offensively. They make a good pairing for that reason, and they probably play better together than apart, but individually I doubt they're anything special.

Actually GF% is a better way of looking at "what happened"

While possession stats tend to tell what to expect over longer time periods/ who dominated possession.

They dominated the league in both. Pure luck right?

 

[Fatass]

if they'd offer bennett and hamilton for kadri the answer would still be no

The trade will not happen in any form. Hamilton is an elite RHD.
You seriously think Lou wouldn't jump on a trade like this to get Hamilton?

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

"Best defensive pair in the NHL" Lol, do you guys actually believe that? I mean Klefbom-Larsson is a better pair, and Larsson really isn't anything special.

Boy oh boy. This is like saying Ryan Nugent Hopkins is a better center than Evgeni Malkin.

We're allowed to value our prospects however we want,

What if I valued Matthew Phillips over Kapanen and used that one-liner to justify it?

and really Bennett (who I do like) has shown very little since being in the NHL that he will be anything more than a 3C.

You're basically admitting you've never watched Bennett.

Why trade away a prospect with all the potential in the world for a guy who really hasn't done anything since being drafted?

Know who hasn't done anything since being drafted? The guy who was drafted 17th overall in June. It's August right now.

Know who has all the potential in the world? The guy who:

- was drafted 13 spots higher than Liljegren in his draft class.
- scored 4 goals in an NHL game, all four highlight reel territory
- In fact has one of the flashiest NHL highlight packages of any U21 player
- just finished his 20 year old season playing more center and taking more faceoffs than anybody in his draft class has so far
- Is only playing 3C with blegh wingers because Monahan and Backlund exist

 

[Morgs]

Actually GF% is a better way of looking at "what happened"

Whole possession stats tend to tell what to expect over longer time periods/ who dominated possession.

They dominated the league in both. Pure luck right?

Yeah, and GF% to it's simplest terms is GF / GA = GF%. How do you score goals? By shooting. That then comes down to oiSH% and SV%, which is PDO. GF% will talk about what happens, but it's future prediction capabilities are severely behind CF%, and xGF%.

Even those stats though have very little meaning without proper context, and still a number of things could be found with those.

GAR on the other hand puts everything together WITH context, and places a value on a players offense/defense/PP/Penalty differential/etc and shows how much value this player has to their team. Although still very flawed, it's still a better indicator than the general stats you've quoted.

Based on that, Hamilton is the 150th best defenseman in the league, and Giordano is 71st. Probably not accurate because I do believe penalty differential/PPO is still very flawed, but based on just their offensive/defensive value it can show a lot. Giordano has +3.5 defensive value, where as Hamilton's is -2.3. Hamilton is not good defensively.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Kadri+Liljegren for Hamilton+Bennett, Calgary is definitely going to the woodshed on this deal. That's for sure.

 

[Skobel24]

This gets the Leafs their dman, but they can't afford to lose Kadri. Calgary has enough d prospects, and Kadri isn't needed either.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

God no.

I love what Kadri has become, but I'm still convinced Bennett can become a similar level player in time (Kadri wasn't exactly spectacular at Bennett's age either).

Downgrading Hamilton who at worst is a #3 who puts up 50+ points to a prospect we just passed on is not even in question.

As much as I hate the proposal, passing a prospect doesn't mean we didn't like the prospect. Valimaki to almost every team is seen as a much safer player and probably even end up better than Liljegren depending on the circumstances.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

So the 71st and 150th best defencemen had BY FAR the best advanced stats in the NHL... yep GAR is truly a great measure of talent

 

[Hunter368]

Can't see the Flames considering this, not good value.

 

[Morgs]

What if I valued Matthew Phillips over Kapanen and used that one-liner to justify it?

You can value your prospects however you want, but comparing Phillips to Kapanen is a lot easier than comparing Liljegren's value to Bennett's. Do you really think you could get a 1st round pick back for Bennett at this point? Which is essentially Liljegren's value.

Know who hasn't done anything since being drafted? The guy who was drafted 17th overall in June. It's August right now.

Know who has all the potential in the world? The guy who:

- was drafted 13 spots higher than Liljegren in his draft class.
- scored 4 goals in an NHL game, all four highlight reel territory
- In fact has one of the flashiest NHL highlight packages of any U21 player
- just finished his 20 year old season playing more center and taking more faceoffs than anybody in his draft class has so far
- Is only playing 3C with blegh wingers because Monahan and Backlund exist

This literally proves nothing.

 

[BHD]

I think we're good here.