Nationwide Arena/CBJ Finances Discussion II

[JacketsDavid]

Difference is if the taxpayers said they did not want a fire department, but then a tax payer steps up builds a firehouse and funds it for 2 years, then later decides it's too expensive, and the city takes it over and plans to fund it with "new taxes" from an unknown source (this case a casino, was known but not the actual revenues), but those sources of revenue fall short, so it cames out of the general fund.

Let me state this - I love Nationwide. I live in the arena, support the jackets (STH from beginning), etc. Besides the business owners (in and around the arena) I probably have as much invested as anyone. But the power of Nationwide is incredible. They didn't want the casino (publicly they couldn't fight it, because they were bidding on Pittsburgh's Arena area with a Casino, but it was their and Wolfe family dollars that got it moved) so it got moved, they wanted out of the responsiblity of the arena so they got council to approve it via tax dollars from the casino they moved out of the arena, then recently they got all the condos here tax abated for 15 years (most were 10 years). Columbus Public schools is begging for money and Council abates several hundred condos (all $300k+) and no one even knows about it. Simply because nationwide is putting up more Condos ina couple years and wants to make sure the RE values stays high. Yes Nationwide has City Council by the Nads, they say jump and Council asks "How High". Crazy what power they have.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Let me state this - I love Nationwide. I live in the arena,

I know it's just a typo, but this is beautiful. I think this makes you a biased observer, JD.

 

[CapnCornelius]

By the way, the Dispatch article doesn't get into the weeds, but the Contract Clause of the US Constitution is another impediment to this ballot initiative ultimately being upheld if there is a court challenge. US Trust Company v. New Jersey could be applicable precedent though it concerned a state government--municipal governments derive their power from the State, so I think there is a solid argument there.

I haven't looked at Ohio's Constitution to see what sort of similar provision(s) may exist.

 

[pete goegan]

In addition, we come back to the fact that Value City Arena was to be built with the conditions that it have no luxury seating and host no non-NCAA or OHSAA events. The fact that both of those provisions were ignored and caused a 10-year war with Nationwide on bidding for events, with losses at Nationwide being pushed onto the CBJ and losses at Value City being pushed onto the taxpayers of the state of Ohio....

That has stuck in my craw, too. That's a big reason why I no longer make any additional financial contributions to my alma mater, other than my alumni fees (and one of the reasons I dislike Gordon Gee).

 

[pete goegan]

...But the power of Nationwide is incredible. They didn't want the casino (publicly they couldn't fight it, because they were bidding on Pittsburgh's Arena area with a Casino, but it was their and Wolfe family dollars that got it moved) so it got moved, they wanted out of the responsiblity of the arena so they got council to approve it via tax dollars from the casino they moved out of the arena...

Of course now, with the casino in the middle of nowhere, revenues are not at the hoped for levels! Had it been where it was originally intended, conventioneers, visitors, and business travelers staying in downtown hotels could have gone ther for an evening's amusement. Does anyone think that happens now, with the current location being so far out of town?

 

[Samkow]

 

[Samkow]

http://wosu.org/2012/allsides/public-financing-of-sports-arenas/

Our good bud was on WOSU today...ugh.

 

[Speedy Sanderson]

http://wosu.org/2012/allsides/public-financing-of-sports-arenas/

Our good bud was on WOSU today...ugh.

He's well-spoken and he and his group will be a formidable opponent for city council. However, I also think he's totally disingenuous. Beard isn't doing this out of civic duty - he just wants more $ from the city for his political career/causes. His Coalitions's campaign finance reform initiative probably isn't sexy enough on its own to grab people's attention, but by packaging it with the "Arena Bailout," he's got a platform to reach city residents. If this does end up on the ballot, I have no doubt it will be successful. Part of that is the Jackets' fault - most people in this city could care less about them because they've sucked for their entire existence.

Obviously this will end up in court one way or another. Hopefully the courts recognize what a bad precedent this will set and rule this initiative illegal, but if it succeeds, it will be interesting to see if Nationwide sees the Jackets as integral to the continued success of the Arena District and cuts a deal to make it worthwhile for the Jackets to stay, or if they can get by with the occasional concert/NCAA tourney games, and maybe an AHL franchise. Having local franchise owners will help in keeping the Jackets here should things turn south, but the almighty dollar might be hard to ignore if some city gives them a sweetheart deal.

 

[Crede777]

http://wosu.org/2012/allsides/public-financing-of-sports-arenas/

Our good bud was on WOSU today...ugh.

 

[Samkow]

He's well-spoken and he and his group will be a formidable opponent for city council. However, I also think he's totally disingenuous. Beard isn't doing this out of civic duty - he just wants more $ from the city for his political career/causes. His Coalitions's campaign finance reform initiative probably isn't sexy enough on its own to grab people's attention, but by packaging it with the "Arena Bailout," he's got a platform to reach city residents. If this does end up on the ballot, I have no doubt it will be successful. Part of that is the Jackets' fault - most people in this city could care less about them because they've sucked for their entire existence.

Obviously this will end up in court one way or another. Hopefully the courts recognize what a bad precedent this will set and rule this initiative illegal, but if it succeeds, it will be interesting to see if Nationwide sees the Jackets as integral to the continued success of the Arena District and cuts a deal to make it worthwhile for the Jackets to stay, or if they can get by with the occasional concert/NCAA tourney games, and maybe an AHL franchise. Having local franchise owners will help in keeping the Jackets here should things turn south, but the almighty dollar might be hard to ignore if some city gives them a sweetheart deal.

Well spoken? The guy said nothing beyond "put it before a vote." For a guy who sure likes the appeal to patriotism argument, he sure doesn't seem to grasp the concept of the representative democracy that defines this county.

RE: the other initiative...about the only thing guaranteed to be more unpopular than what can be construed as a corporate "bailout" is something that can be construed as a political "bailout." The same anti-tax people who will show up in droves to vote against this are going to vote down his idea too. I'd venture to say it'll probably lose by a greater margin than the arena bailout will.

Not to be negative, but, right or wrong, given the current political climate that pervades Central Ohio/Ohio/the Country this initiative will probably pass. That being said, in my amateur opinion, the lease will hold up in court. But a long legal fight through the courts will certainly be bad for the team.

 

[blahblah]

Not to be negative, but, right or wrong, given the current political climate that pervades Central Ohio/Ohio/the Country this initiative will probably pass.

This one is a little different in that no one is asking for money. Since no money has actually came out of tax payers pockets, I'm not sure how much momentum it's actually going to have.

I would say that my first instinct would be that it passes. At the same time, the CBJ fans might have more energy going into the vote. I'm not sure this group is going to have the money to get the message to the voters en masse.

Voters are interesting. This might die to apathy. I'll be curious to see how this goes down.

 

[JacketsDavid]

This one is a little different in that no one is asking for money. Since no money has actually came out of tax payers pockets, I'm not sure how much momentum it's actually going to have.

Isn't that just a timing thing? it was going to be paid for with these tax dollars from the casino, but now the casino revenues (not just Columbus but across the state) are well below expectations, so that money will need to come from somewhere.

I agree with others - voters will not be happy about it, but legally I don't think the courts can uphold the vote.

Best thing that may come from this entire thing is maybe (finally) Columbus will look at going to a ward system for City Council. May get some more folks on council who can think for themselves.

 

[SuperGenius]

Isn't that just a timing thing? it was going to be paid for with these tax dollars from the casino, but now the casino revenues (not just Columbus but across the state) are well below expectations, so that money will need to come from somewhere.

Any shortfall is covered by Nationwide. Also, the deal is for a percentage of casino taxes, not a specific amount.

nsiders say Nationwide came on board quicker than some of the other partners. With a lot at stake as the main developer of the Arena District, the company may have bended the most in the negotiations: agreeing to sell the arena to the county for $42.5 million (although it cost about $150 million to build 11 years ago) and then chipping in $28.5 million for naming rights and another $52 million to become a 30 percent owner of the hockey team. What’s more, Nationwide agreed to loan the county $43.3 million to pay for the arena, as well as to cover any shortfalls that might occur if casino revenue comes in less than anticipated. “Nationwide from the very onset knew they were going to have to finance the deal, and they did not resist that,†Dorrian says. “That, obviously, kept things moving very well.â€

http://www.columbusmonthly.com/February-2012/Saving-the-Blue-Jackets/

 

[Speedy Sanderson]

Well, well, well, looks like Mr. Beard has some explaining to do.......

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...on-aid-used-to-prop-up-free-weekly-paper.html

 

[Samkow]

Well, well, well, looks like Mr. Beard has some explaining to do.......

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...on-aid-used-to-prop-up-free-weekly-paper.html

What a phony.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Well, well, well, looks like Mr. Beard has some explaining to do.......

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...on-aid-used-to-prop-up-free-weekly-paper.html

If similar hucksters have given us a pattern to go off of, it's that he will do one of the following:
1) Not address it at all
2) Direct any questions toward an attorney, who will not address it
3) Handle questions, but blame it on some vague boogeyman (or boogeymen) who has a vendetta against him and him alone

 

[Speedy Sanderson]

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...bers-seek-to-keep-arena-issue-off-ballot.html

 

[CBJWerenski8]

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...bers-seek-to-keep-arena-issue-off-ballot.html

Good.

 

[pete goegan]

Good.

Indeed!

 

[Robert]

NWA, the Arena district and CBJ have been the best thing for C-bus in 20 years...

 

[CapnCornelius]

Not sure how this was missed:

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/01/10/1-arena-ballot-issue.html

There's not time for us to rest on our laurels and simply hope that reason prevails. We need to organize Jackets fans and Arena District businesses to make sure this does not pass and waste a bunch of taxpayer money on legal fees (much as I am in favor of keeping my fellow attorneys in business).

 

[BJFan1]

Not sure how this was missed:

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/01/10/1-arena-ballot-issue.html

There's not time for us to rest on our laurels and simply hope that reason prevails. We need to organize Jackets fans and Arena District businesses to make sure this does not pass and waste a bunch of taxpayer money on legal fees (much as I am in favor of keeping my fellow attorneys in business).

So what happens if Mr. Loudspeaker gets his way?

We go to court battle which yes, as the article said "If Columbus voters approve ending the arena payments, a court battle is likely. Pfeiffer has said he thinks that the city would win because the 30-day referendum period for city ordinances has passed and the arena contract has already been executed."

But, what if not? It's a contract, and if the city payments are stopped, who does the funding fall on to for the arena contract? I'm pretty sure that the county technically owns the arena, so would it fall to them?


I'm pretty sure this sentiment is a shared one... but I truly disdain Jonathan Beard.

 

[Samkow]

I'm pretty sure this sentiment is a shared one... but I truly disdain Jonathan Beard.

Just remember: Saving the projects of Poindexter Village=Vital part of the city worthy of public funds
Nationwide Arena=Horrible waste of money.

 

[SuperGenius]

Not sure how this was missed:

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/01/10/1-arena-ballot-issue.html

There's not time for us to rest on our laurels and simply hope that reason prevails. We need to organize Jackets fans and Arena District businesses to make sure this does not pass and waste a bunch of taxpayer money on legal fees (much as I am in favor of keeping my fellow attorneys in business).

Despite what that article says, I don't know that it's been decided if their language is appropriate for a ballot issue.

IMO, while i understand what you're saying, it's difficult for me to give this more attention than it deserves. Frankly, I think once it makes it to the ballot, it fails, simply because I think any government spending would fail a public vote. I don't think it's possible for people, particularly in this town, to see the forest for the trees.

 

[CapnCornelius]

Despite what that article says, I don't know that it's been decided if their language is appropriate for a ballot issue.

IMO, while i understand what you're saying, it's difficult for me to give this more attention than it deserves. Frankly, I think once it makes it to the ballot, it fails, simply because I think any government spending would fail a public vote. I don't think it's possible for people, particularly in this town, to see the forest for the trees.

This isn't about public financing of the Arena--it's about jobs. We're coming out of the worst recession of our lifetimes. The Arena is paid from sin taxes from the casino and by Nationwide, not by the general public. These people want to take those funds, which create jobs in the Arena District and use it...for what exactly? To subsidize their own political campaigns for City Council?

This is a disgusting attempt to abuse the initiative process by a fringe group for their own benefit which should be exposed for what it is. They are counting on apathy to work in their favor.