Nationality and US popularity

[Pantokrator]

Back to the OP, I have lived right south of Philly, in Raleigh NC, and now in Mobile Alabama. The reason people in general don't watch hockey is that they do not know the game. Down here in Alabama, the people are not opposed to Hockey. They just tell me they don't know anything about the game. I teach some students that got into it marginally from playing EA Sports hockey.

When I lived in Raleigh/Wake Forest, the Canes came to town. I played in a street hockey league that came about after the Canes came and due to the many northern transplants in the area, the leauge worked out OK. The Carolina natives who came to play out of curiosity were quickly hooked and began to support the Canes. It was an appreciation for the game due to familiarity that sold the game. Going to the CUp in 2002 raised awareness, as did the 2006 Cup victory. Good pro hockey teams will also bring about support in the local fan base (like the Kings with Gretzky did).

The reason the game doesn't sell in many areas is due to a lack of familiarity due to the inability to play the game. I have never met anyone in Alabama who owns a hockey stick. Obviously, they are not going to play a game they have no knowledge of, nor are they likely to watch a game they have no knowledge of.

If the NHL really wanted to promote the game, they would give each public school in the non-traditional markets a bunch of street hockey equipment to use in gym class. If my theory is correct, the familiarity would result in at least marginal interest in the game. Then they'd need a local team to support to harness the interest.

 

[tarheelhockey]

If the NHL really wanted to promote the game, they would give each public school in the non-traditional markets a bunch of street hockey equipment to use in gym class. If my theory is correct, the familiarity would result in at least marginal interest in the game. Then they'd need a local team to support to harness the interest.

YES. Absolutely. Kids will play hockey if they have cheap access to it.

Last night I took my 2-year-old son to the Canes/Leafs game here in Raleigh, and he brought 2 mini sticks with him. He likes to play with a puck on the waxed floors when the concourse is empty. 2 kids, older than him, came by with their dad... without going into detail, it was obvious that they were not hockey fans. Almost instantly the three kids were sharing the sticks and playing a little pickup game. At that age, it's as natural as swinging a bat or kicking a ball.

 

[AllByDesign]

I know one person in Alabama with a hockey stick. He comes to Manitoba to Snowmobile in the winter. He enjoys the game of hockey.

Can you explain the fascination with soggy peanuts?

 

[Pantokrator]

YES. Absolutely. Kids will play hockey if they have cheap access to it.

Last night I took my 2-year-old son to the Canes/Leafs game here in Raleigh, and he brought 2 mini sticks with him. He likes to play with a puck on the waxed floors when the concourse is empty. 2 kids, older than him, came by with their dad... without going into detail, it was obvious that they were not hockey fans. Almost instantly the three kids were sharing the sticks and playing a little pickup game. At that age, it's as natural as swinging a bat or kicking a ball.

Right - if they have access to playing the game (be it ice or street) and availability to see the game, I think this is the mixture for interest in the game.

 

[Pantokrator]

I know one person in Alabama with a hockey stick. He comes to Manitoba to Snowmobile in the winter. He enjoys the game of hockey.

Can you explain the fascination with soggy peanuts?

I am not sure why the fascination with boiled peanuts. I think once you've had dry - roasted peanuts, why boil them? There are actually people that wait outside of Wal Mart and sell them.

 

[Killion]

Can you explain the fascination with soggy peanuts?

 

[AllByDesign]

I take it you've been to 'Bama

 

[Killion]

I take it you've been to 'Bama

Ive been everywhere Man
Crossed the deserts bare Man
Breathed the mountains air Man
Of travel Ive had my share Man
Ive been been everywhere........

BirminghamGadsdenTalladegaTuskegee
DothanElbaEvergreenChickasaw
MobileMarionHaleyvilleHartselle
CullmanCamdenClantonBrewtonJasperFairfieldPrattv...........OpelikaPrichardCentrevilleButler .... OzarkAndalusia

 

[tarheelhockey]

Boiled peanuts are just one of those things like crawfish or poutine, that someone inexplicably started eating and their friends didn't know when to stop. Next thing you know it's everywhere

 

[Killion]

Goober Peas ABD. You can boil m' in water with hot sauce, chillis, beer, Dr.Pepper, coffee beans, collard greens, ham hocks, rock salt, sea salt......7-12 hours per pound. Supersized cauldron. Out in the yards best.

Completely, utterly & bizarrely OT.

 

[AllByDesign]

What were we talking about anyhow? I dunno... Talladega is Nice.

 

[Pantokrator]

Ive been everywhere Man
Crossed the deserts bare Man
Breathed the mountains air Man
Of travel Ive had my share Man
Ive been been everywhere........

BirminghamGadsdenTalladegaTuskegee
DothanElbaEvergreenChickasaw
MobileMarionHaleyvilleHartselle
CullmanCamdenClantonBrewtonJasperFairfieldPrattv...........OpelikaPrichardCentrevilleButler .... OzarkAndalusia

Prichard?!!!! Prichard actually made that list?!!! Oh, that's bad....

In case you haven't seen the Mobile Leprechaun, here's what it is like in my neck of the woods:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM7CL-Vyo1U

 

[Killion]

Prichard?!!!! Prichard actually made that list?!!! Oh, that's bad.... In case you haven't seen the Mobile Leprechaun, here's what it is like in my neck of the woods:

Interesting newsclip. Im 110proof Irish & didnt realize you guys' had leprechauns living in Mobile. I've seen them over in Samson, coming out to enjoy the Sacred Harp Singers, but Mobile?. Well I'll be jiggered!..... And ya, Prichard; "City of Champions", "Crossroads of Mobile"..... Rest of your cities not too shabby either; The Saenger. The Soul Kitchen...... Muscle Shoals in Sheffield. And of course one of the greatest hockey nicknames ever; The Alabama Slammers. Jimmy Buffet, Martha Reeves, Sam Philips.... uh oh, not again....

 

[Fidel Astro]

Back to the OP, I have lived right south of Philly, in Raleigh NC, and now in Mobile Alabama. The reason people in general don't watch hockey is that they do not know the game. Down here in Alabama, the people are not opposed to Hockey. They just tell me they don't know anything about the game. I teach some students that got into it marginally from playing EA Sports hockey.

Hockey, though, is incredibly simple to learn, especially when compared to sports like football. There are no different point values for different types of plays in hockey. You put the puck in the net. Whichever team does that more often over three periods wins. It's really not that hard.

The reason the game doesn't sell in many areas is due to a lack of familiarity due to the inability to play the game. I have never met anyone in Alabama who owns a hockey stick. Obviously, they are not going to play a game they have no knowledge of, nor are they likely to watch a game they have no knowledge of.

Is it inability to play the game or lack of desire to play the game? Obviously they are aware that hockey exists. It's the 21st Century. If I want to watch any sport on Earth, I can just find it instantly on the Internet. Most people have ridiculous cable TV packages these days. If you want to watch hockey, you can watch hockey anywhere in the world.

I think the problem is moreso that people in Alabama have no interest in the sport because it's not part of the culture, and I think the lack of outdoor ice means it's never going to be part of the culture. This isn't a bad thing. Certainly Alabama's climate is far better-suited to other sports, and I'm sure there are some hugely popular football/baseball/whatever teams down there.

My ongoing problem with what people are saying about the south is this: while it's definitely a possibility that hockey might catch on down there if it's given more prominence, is it necessary? No offense to Alabamans (I assume that's what you call yourselves), but I think there's a good chance if an NHL team was ever started down there, it would have a similar "success" rate as many of the other southern teams. Giving them a minor pro team is different. It's a good way to gauge interest in the sport, and it's less of an upheaval if it fails, but putting a pro hockey franchise in a region where hockey will always be a fringe sport, at best, is just ridiculous.

...especially when there are a number of northern US and Canadian cities that are full of hockey fans already, waiting patiently for teams. I realize no one is seriously suggesting a team be moved to Alabama, but I don't see that state as being any different from Georgia or Arizona or Florida or anywhere else down there in terms of unsuitability for hockey, and I think the current woes of teams like the Coyotes, Thrashers and Panthers are a good sign of this.

If the NHL really wanted to promote the game, they would give each public school in the non-traditional markets a bunch of street hockey equipment to use in gym class. If my theory is correct, the familiarity would result in at least marginal interest in the game. Then they'd need a local team to support to harness the interest.

Seriously? How much does it cost to order 20 plastic kid-sized sticks and a ball? Probably less than $100 -- likely cheaper if an entire school division did a mass order. Why does the NHL need to be involved? Why can't the schools take their own initiative and buy hockey sticks for gym class?

Also, a bunch of kids playing ball hockey isn't enough to warrant an NHL team. Besides, there are hundreds of thousands of kids up here in Canada who play ACTUAL hockey (as well as ball hockey) on a regular basis, even outside of gym class. Why are some kids who need assistance from the league to even pick up a hockey stick more deserving of a team than kids whose interest in the game developed naturally?

 

[Captain Mittens*]

Hockey, though, is incredibly simple to learn, especially when compared to sports like football. There are no different point values for different types of plays in hockey. You put the puck in the net. Whichever team does that more often over three periods wins. It's really not that hard.

Hockey is far more complicated than that.

I was at a Kings game once and the guy I went with had back problems and couldn't sit so we stood over in the handicapped section.
An Usher (who admitted he got the job because he is a Lakers fan) started asking us about certain nuances of the game. Things he couldn't figure out like off-sides and icing. He figured out why faceoffs happen and understood the basic principles of limiting chances and keeping the opposing team to the outsides etc.
You know what, I saw the guy a few months later and he is now a full blown Kings fan.

Is it inability to play the game or lack of desire to play the game? Obviously they are aware that hockey exists. It's the 21st Century. If I want to watch any sport on Earth, I can just find it instantly on the Internet. Most people have ridiculous cable TV packages these days. If you want to watch hockey, you can watch hockey anywhere in the world.

People only have so much time in their lives and they use their free time as it is most relevant. If you have an hour to watch TV, would you roll the dice and watch a sport you don't understand
or watch something you already know

I think the problem is moreso that people in Alabama have no interest in the sport because it's not part of the culture, and I think the lack of outdoor ice means it's never going to be part of the culture. .

California disagrees with you. Look at the attendance the Sharks and Kings enjoy and to a lesser extent the Ducks. Yes, it does snow in California but not anywhere near where those franchises are located.

This isn't a bad thing.
Certainly Alabama's climate is far better-suited to other sports, and I'm sure there are some hugely popular football/baseball/whatever teams down there.

My ongoing problem with what people are saying about the south is this: while it's definitely a possibility that hockey might catch on down there if it's given more prominence, is it necessary? No offense to Alabamans (I assume that's what you call yourselves), but I think there's a good chance if an NHL team was ever started down there, it would have a similar "success" rate as many of the other southern teams. Giving them a minor pro team is different. It's a good way to gauge interest in the sport, and it's less of an upheaval if it fails, but putting a pro hockey franchise in a region where hockey will always be a fringe sport, at best, is just ridiculous.

Alabama has zero major professional sports teams. ZERO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_teams_in_Alabama

The chance of the NHL ever going there is slim to none.

And for the record, Alabama is a college football state. It's what they live and breathe. Baseball isn't much of a sport there.

...especially when there are a number of northern US and Canadian cities that are full of hockey fans already, waiting patiently for teams. I realize no one is seriously suggesting a team be moved to Alabama, but I don't see that state as being any different from Georgia or Arizona or Florida or anywhere else down there in terms of unsuitability for hockey, and I think the current woes of teams like the Coyotes, Thrashers and Panthers are a good sign of this.

It could also be said that the real culprit is their management.

It snows in Ohio, people grow up playing hockey there but they are 27th in attendance, filling only 72.9
Conversely, the Sharks(where there isn't snow within a 2 hour drive) have 100.4% attendance

Seriously? How much does it cost to order 20 plastic kid-sized sticks and a ball? Probably less than $100 -- likely cheaper if an entire school division did a mass order. Why does the NHL need to be involved? Why can't the schools take their own initiative and buy hockey sticks for gym class?

Also, a bunch of kids playing ball hockey isn't enough to warrant an NHL team. Besides, there are hundreds of thousands of kids up here in Canada who play ACTUAL hockey (as well as ball hockey) on a regular basis, even outside of gym class. Why are some kids who need assistance from the league to even pick up a hockey stick more deserving of a team than kids whose interest in the game developed naturally?

Schools budgets are being slashed because of the economy in the US and sports are amongst the biggest areas cut
The NHL is smart to try to grow the game

And to answer your question about Canada vs. the US. The difference in the populations involved.
The US has the world's 3rd largest population and all of Canada has less people than the state of California does

 

[barneyg]

Seriously? How much does it cost to order 20 plastic kid-sized sticks and a ball? Probably less than $100 -- likely cheaper if an entire school division did a mass order. Why does the NHL need to be involved? Why can't the schools take their own initiative and buy hockey sticks for gym class?

Also, a bunch of kids playing ball hockey isn't enough to warrant an NHL team. Besides, there are hundreds of thousands of kids up here in Canada who play ACTUAL hockey (as well as ball hockey) on a regular basis, even outside of gym class. Why are some kids who need assistance from the league to even pick up a hockey stick more deserving of a team than kids whose interest in the game developed naturally?

I often agree with you Fidel but you're out to lunch on that one. Even from a strictly financial, Toronto-centric NHL standpoint, it makes complete sense to market the game through school and other youth hockey initiatives, a lot more so than through half-price season tickets or whatever.

It's not a question of "should there be teams in the South". Given that there are teams in the South, how do you grow those markets?

 

[Pantokrator]

Forgive my use of using bold - I do not know how to imbed comments, so I just bolded my responses.

Hockey, though, is incredibly simple to learn, especially when compared to sports like football. There are no different point values for different types of plays in hockey. You put the puck in the net. Whichever team does that more often over three periods wins. It's really not that hard.

Look, I agree with you - but the people I talk to don't even understand how SOCCER works. I would say they don't know the penalties, they don't know what icing is, don't understand the concepts. It could be that they have no appreciation because they don't understand the skill involved. For example, I didn't care a lick about golf or appreciate it (I still don't like it) until I went and hit a round of 18. Now when I see them make an 11 foot putt, or even drive the ball STRAIGHT, I understand the difficulty of the task.

Is it inability to play the game or lack of desire to play the game? Obviously they are aware that hockey exists. It's the 21st Century. If I want to watch any sport on Earth, I can just find it instantly on the Internet. Most people have ridiculous cable TV packages these days. If you want to watch hockey, you can watch hockey anywhere in the world.

I would say a lack of desire but also an inability. There are no stores here that sell ANY hockey equipment. People are not going to go and spend 100 bucks online to order equipment to attempt a sport that they might not like.

I think the problem is moreso that people in Alabama have no interest in the sport because it's not part of the culture, and I think the lack of outdoor ice means it's never going to be part of the culture. This isn't a bad thing. Certainly Alabama's climate is far better-suited to other sports, and I'm sure there are some hugely popular football/baseball/whatever teams down there.

What you see here is right on. This is why it will (likely) never be popular here in this neck of the woods.

My ongoing problem with what people are saying about the south is this: while it's definitely a possibility that hockey might catch on down there if it's given more prominence, is it necessary? No offense to Alabamans (I assume that's what you call yourselves), but I think there's a good chance if an NHL team was ever started down there, it would have a similar "success" rate as many of the other southern teams. Giving them a minor pro team is different. It's a good way to gauge interest in the sport, and it's less of an upheaval if it fails, but putting a pro hockey franchise in a region where hockey will always be a fringe sport, at best, is just ridiculous.

I agree with you. I have never suggested that hockey OUGHT to be sold to the south. It is my view that hockey should be left alone. I get tired of the NHL being concerned with spreading the game unnaturally. I was only posting to explain WHY it is not popular in the south. I was never suggesting that it ought to BE in the south.

...especially when there are a number of northern US and Canadian cities that are full of hockey fans already, waiting patiently for teams. I realize no one is seriously suggesting a team be moved to Alabama, but I don't see that state as being any different from Georgia or Arizona or Florida or anywhere else down there in terms of unsuitability for hockey, and I think the current woes of teams like the Coyotes, Thrashers and Panthers are a good sign of this.

Right. I think teams in the south (or wherever - that's you NYI) that struggle for whatever reason ought to be moved to areas where they will prosper. I have no problem with that at all.

Seriously? How much does it cost to order 20 plastic kid-sized sticks and a ball? Probably less than $100 -- likely cheaper if an entire school division did a mass order. Why does the NHL need to be involved? Why can't the schools take their own initiative and buy hockey sticks for gym class?

I was just saying that IF the NHL wanted to spread the game, this would be a way to do it that would likely have some success. I don't necessarily think that they SHOULD. But if they DID, they would help fulfill THEIR goal (not mine) of spreading the game. The local schools have no motivation at all to buy sticks. No one knows the game or cares about the game, so why would they even consider using money for that purpose? The folks here are fine with baseball and football. This is the NHL's problem. As you mentioned above, hockey is not in the culture, that is why it will not succeed down here unless it becomes a part of the culture, which would involve local interest as well as many northern transplants coming to the area (from living in Raleigh, this is what I believed made that situation work).

Also, a bunch of kids playing ball hockey isn't enough to warrant an NHL team.

I agree.

Besides, there are hundreds of thousands of kids up here in Canada who play ACTUAL hockey (as well as ball hockey) on a regular basis, even outside of gym class. Why are some kids who need assistance from the league to even pick up a hockey stick more deserving of a team than kids whose interest in the game developed naturally?

I agree. I'm just saying, the league is always concerned about spreading the game. I was giving my reasons for why the game won't spread down here. I'd rather teams be in places like Quebec and Winnipeg. But the NHL has this love affair with the south that I think is largely unnatural.

 

[hockey diva]

Just to clarify. There is a strong hockey presence in Huntsville, AL because of the college team (University of Alabama Huntsville)that has been there for many years. Transplants also played a role since NASA is based there as well. I also think there is some hockey interest in Birmingham where they have had minor league teams.

 

[Killion]

Just to clarify. There is a strong hockey presence in Huntsville, AL because of the college team (University of Alabama Huntsville)that has been there for many years. Transplants also played a role since NASA is based there as well. I also think there is some hockey interest in Birmingham where they have had minor league teams.

Yepp. If Im not mistaken their are 2 College Teams, the Chargers & the Frozen Tide. Minor teams going back decades; & the WHA Birmingham Bulls which included Rick Vaive, Gaston Gingras, Rob Ramage & 72 Team Canada hero Paul Henderson at the end of his career. I had hoped they'd have joined the NHL in 79 when the WHA amalgamated, but instead went the other way, down to the Central Hockey League for a number of years before folding. Missed opportunity. And I hear you about NASA, have some friends from Canada who have worked their over the years, avid players as kids & fans.

 

[kdb209]

I also think there is some hockey interest in Birmingham where they have had minor league teams.

Birmingham had a WHA team (Birmingham Bulls) for the last three seasons of the league. After that, they had CHL teams in the 80's and an ECHL team for over a decade ('88-'01).

 

[hockey diva]

My point is that hockey may not be well known or much followed in places like Alabama, Tennessee, etc but that doesn't mean there isn't anyone who follows, plays or enjoys it.

I wonder if the hatred would be as strong if Winnipeg and QC hadn't lost their teams.

 

[Fidel Astro]

I wonder if the hatred would be as strong if Winnipeg and QC hadn't lost their teams.

I don't think there's any question that most of us would tone it down in a major way if the Jets and Nordiques were back in the league.

 

[Killion]

I wonder if the hatred would be as strong if Winnipeg and QC hadn't lost their teams.

Hatred is far too strong a word for what goes on in that department. Now, resentment?. That would be accurate. I cant speak for Winnipegger's, people in Quebec City or Hartford, but I think the general attitude is "why does the NHL exist in places like Nashville, Atlanta, Raleigh, Miami & Tampa, Phoenix & Anaheim when up here, in the cradle of hockey, we lost our teams to the south & look at the mess their in?; the league seeming to go through the wall to keep them put when in our cases' they couldnt sell us out quickly enough; we can support the game, grew up with it, they cant". Their arguments are with the league, not the people of Arizona or wherever else & most know it. Unfortunately, where sport is concerned, lines get blurred, a vocal minority screaming loudly, decidedly xenophobic conspiracy theorists with comparisons of Gary Bettman to Dr. Evil, states like Florida & Tenn a blight on their Rockwellian visions of frozen ponds, tube skates & wooden sticks.

 

[Killion]

I don't think there's any question that most of us would tone it down in a major way if the Jets and Nordiques were back in the league.

Jets ARE on their way Fidel, as sure as the Sun rises', and likely both QC & Hamilton within 5yrs. Will these teams return at the expense of other communities?. Sadly, yes they will. The original posters point is valid & I wish more would take its heed; anger & vitriol in many instances is misdirected towards a market instead of the league where it may or may not be deserved, depending on the situation.

 

[MoreOrr]

I don't think there's any question that most of us would tone it down in a major way if the Jets and Nordiques were back in the league.

I think too that you have consider where that "hate" should be directed. It was the League that opened the door to these "southern cities", and now whether the fanbases are strong or not, they do exist to some extent and you're basically wishing upon them what happened to you. And in the case of Atlanta, that city wasn't the recipient of a re-located team. In fact, Atlanta lost its first team to a Canadian city. I suppose what you can be angered about is that Atlanta got another team, while Winnipeg and Quebec City still haven't. But then, Atlanta got a second chance 19 years after they lost the Flames; it's still only 15-16 years since the Nordiques and Jets left town. So hey, give it 3 or 4 more years and Winnipeg and Quebec City might get teams again.