World Cup: National Team threads #2

[HajdukSplit]

If you lot were to rank the South American nations, what would the rankings look like now?

Just my opinion

1. Brazil
2. Uruguay
3. Argentina
4. Colombia
5. Chile
6. Peru
7. Paraguay
8. Ecuador
9. Venezuela
10. Bolivia

There is a gap between BRA/URU/ARG and the rest, 4-8 is very close, Paraguay is a team who I think will improve in the upcoming years, Chile is on the decline but still has a good squad

Venezuela and Bolivia practically have no chance (Venezuela have decent players on paper but I think the instability in their country hurts, they usually have issues with players accepting call-ups) and Bolivia are easily the worst team, if it wasn't for altitude in their home venue they probably would pick up less than 10 points in these qualifiers

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Argentina are better than Uruguay that much I’m certain of. In terms of talent coming though and product on the field. Arg have them beat. They’re better coached and more disciplined sure but Argentina takes them 1v1.

 

[GunkWinger]

Argentina are better than Uruguay that much I’m certain of. In terms of talent coming though and product on the field. Arg have them beat. They’re better coached and more disciplined sure but Argentina takes them 1v1.

Disagree. They're pretty even me thinks. We finally have the midfield players (talent wise) we've been missing for years, cavani and suarez are still serviceable and we may have found their replacements in Maxi and Nuñez. Defense is still the same ( we just need someone like Araujo to take the next step). If we could replace Caceres we'd be golden. This team is the deepest its been in over 30-40 years.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Glorified friendlies and Covid. Wheeeeeeeee

 

[Power Man]

That goal by Algeria today Daaaaaaaaaamn

Bennacer cool as a cucumber , Benrahma’s great ball to Mahrez and the latter with a spectacular goal

 

[robertmac43]

The first touch by Mahrez was insane!

 

[Evilo]

That's just CR7 when he has to face good teams at the international level; Lahm used to have a leash with Cristiano's name on it.

He has never scored on Italy, Germany and England either.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Disagree. They're pretty even me thinks. We finally have the midfield players (talent wise) we've been missing for years, cavani and suarez are still serviceable and we may have found their replacements in Maxi and Nuñez. Defense is still the same ( we just need someone like Araujo to take the next step). If we could replace Caceres we'd be golden. This team is the deepest its been in over 30-40 years.

Don’t know too much about Nunez but Maxi is no where near Cavani/Suarez. That would be like me saying Argentina have their replacement for Messi in Martinez. Argentina are have a deep talent pool in multiple positions. The have finally figured out how to produce a CB. Midfield too is coming along. The attack is always there never an issue.

 

[S E P H]

What?
Payet has never made a defensive play all his life.
Ronaldo has met France 5 times. He has 0 goal, 0 assist, and all were poor games for him (including one injured as you pointed out, and quite ironically in Portugal's only win).

Payet doesn't need to play defence when he provides world class offence.

Just my opinion

1. Brazil
2. Uruguay
3. Argentina
4. Colombia
5. Chile
6. Peru
7. Paraguay
8. Ecuador
9. Venezuela
10. Bolivia

There is a gap between BRA/URU/ARG and the rest, 4-8 is very close, Paraguay is a team who I think will improve in the upcoming years, Chile is on the decline but still has a good squad

Venezuela and Bolivia practically have no chance (Venezuela have decent players on paper but I think the instability in their country hurts, they usually have issues with players accepting call-ups) and Bolivia are easily the worst team, if it wasn't for altitude in their home venue they probably would pick up less than 10 points in these qualifiers

Thanks, I agree with your points even if Argentina is #2 for me personally. It was Chile in the past, but like all nations their squad has hit the ageing spectrum on all their best players. Peru is underrated, but I also agree with you that Paraguay is the country with the most potential to rise to Colombia and Uruguay's level. I do have another question, if we were to add Costa Rica and Honduras into this list where would you put them with the SA nations?

 

[Evilo]

Don’t know too much about Nunez but Maxi is no where near Cavani/Suarez. That would be like me saying Argentina have their replacement for Messi in Martinez. Argentina are have a deep talent pool in multiple positions. The have finally figured out how to produce a CB. Midfield too is coming along. The attack is always there never an issue.

Nunez's pretty good.

 

[Evilo]

Payet doesn't need to play defence when he provides world class offence.


Thanks, I agree with your points even if Argentina is #2 for me personally. It was Chile in the past, but like all nations their squad has hit the ageing spectrum on all their best players. Peru is underrated, but I also agree with you that Paraguay is the country with the most potential. I do have another question, if we were to add Costa Rica and Honduras into this list where would you put them with the SA nations?

He provides 0 offense and 0 world class of anything.
Dimiti Payet has played 17 CL games in his career. He has 0 goal. 2 wins. He's a loser, will always be a loser and an overrated loser. Guy gets hot for 2 months, everybody raves and then he's semi-retired for the rest of the season.
Except that now he has signed a new contract with OM (a rich contract) making him a future wealthy retiree, he's not even trying. He's ALREADY in pre-retirement. Rumors say he is 25 pounds overweight.

 

[S E P H]

He provides 0 offense and 0 world class of anything.
Dimiti Payet has played 17 CL games in his career. He has 0 goal. 2 wins. He's a loser, will always be a loser and an overrated loser. Guy gets hot for 2 months, everybody raves and then he's semi-retired for the rest of the season.
Except that now he has signed a new contract with OM (a rich contract) making him a future wealthy retiree, he's not even trying. He's ALREADY in pre-retirement. Rumors say he is 25 pounds overweight.

Come on Evilo, he's a dragon. He gets to play for Marseille and West Ham which significantly reduce his ability, the two most mediocrity average clubs in each respected league...if you put him on Man City or PSG they would've won multiple CL's.

 

[Evilo]

He has zero chance at playing for bigger clubs because people actually watch the games.

 

[S E P H]

What does that even mean? I watch many games of him and you're underrating his ability.

 

[Evilo]

What does that even mean? I watch many games of him and you're underrating his ability.

You need to buy glasses then.
The guy has never scored 10 goals in a single year since 2013.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Nunez's pretty good.

Be that as it may I doubt he reaches Cavani let alone Suarez level.

 

[cgf]

Be that as it may I doubt he reaches Cavani let alone Suarez level.

They don't need to reach 100% of the same level Suarez/Cavani were at if their midfield is as much better as it's looking

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

They don't need to reach 100% of the same level Suarez/Cavani were at if their midfield is as much better as it's looking

They don’t however ive been hearing of Uruguay’s next generation for about 3/4 years now. I’m still wondering when it’s going to show up. They have some nice pieces here and there but hardly anything more than usual. 2018 they barely out performed a tragic Argentina team. (If they did at all) last copa they did even worse. Lost to Peru in the quarters. Their at the point where they either perform or it’s just hype.

Hell just last month in the qualifiers they lost to Ecuador. I don’t see how their better than Argentina who are trending up.

 

[Moncherry]

They don’t however ive been hearing of Uruguay’s next generation for about 3/4 years now. I’m still wondering when it’s going to show up. They have some nice pieces here and there but hardly anything more than usual. 2018 they barely out performed a tragic Argentina team. (If they did at all) last copa they did even worse. Lost to Peru in the quarters. Their at the point where they either perform or it’s just hype.

Hell just last month in the qualifiers they lost to Ecuador. I don’t see how their better than Argentina who are trending up.

Uruguay made the QF winning all 4 games on the way and were eliminated by France in a close game, that was a good World Cup for them. Meanwhile Argentina were minutes away from being eliminated in a soft group, getting blown out in the process.

What about losing to Ecuador? Going away to Ecuador is a hard game for anyone. They've also beat Chile and Colombia. Argentina haven't looked very impressive themselves thus far.

Argentina's recent squads have also looked like crap by their standards, I wouldn't put them clearly ahead on paper at all, not by a long shot.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Uruguay made the QF winning all 4 games on the way and were eliminated by France in a close game, that was a good World Cup for them. Meanwhile Argentina were minutes away from being eliminated in a soft group, getting blown out in the process.

What about losing to Ecuador? Going away to Ecuador is a hard game for anyone. They've also beat Chile and Colombia. Argentina haven't looked very impressive themselves thus far.

Argentina's recent squads have also looked like crap by their standards, I wouldn't put them clearly ahead on paper at all, not by a long shot.

Wow that's one spin on the 2018 world cup. Here's another Uruguay beat a shit group but get shut out by France. Argentina's only 2 loses are the eventual 2 world cup finalists. Argentina also get knocked out in a close game and were the closest to beat France. Including the final game. So blown out which game exactly lol? Again this needs to be put into context of how the f*** they actually got there and who the coach was.

They didn't just lose to Ecuador they got spanked 4 goals. Argentina have given up just 2 goals so far. With them piss poor reffing that cost them from going 3/3.

THey're dealing with injuries and the squad that gets called up isn't really a good indication of how the team is trending. Look at the pipeline thats coming through. Along with the performances. They're clearly ahead of Uruguay in terms of talent and production. As proven in the last copa.

 

[Moncherry]

Wow that's one spin on the 2018 world cup. Here's another Uruguay beat a shit group but get shut out by France. Argentina's only 2 loses are the eventual 2 world cup finalists. Argentina also get knocked out in a close game and were the closest to beat France. Including the final game. So blown out which game exactly lol? Again this needs to be put into context of how the f*** they actually got there and who the coach was.

They didn't just lose to Ecuador they got spanked 4 goals. Argentina have given up just 2 goals so far. With them piss poor reffing that cost them from going 3/3.

THey're dealing with injuries and the squad that gets called up isn't really a good indication of how the team is trending. Look at the pipeline thats coming through. Along with the performances. They're clearly ahead of Uruguay in terms of talent and production. As proven in the last copa.

It was a shit group but they still came away with 9 points, Argentina tied against Iceland and got crushed by Croatia, then had to beat Nigeria late to make it to the next round. Uruguay had great wins against Russia and Portugal, more impressive than any result Argentina managed. Overall they had the better World Cup, if getting carved open by France is the best example you can give for Argentina that says it all.

If you want to handpick individual results against Ecuador, Argentina scraped by them at home thanks to a soft penalty. Then they had some more uninspiring performances against Bolivia and Paraguay while Uruguay gets wins against Chile and Colombia. Argentina is fortunate that they've gotten an easier run of fixtures to start the campaign, once they start playing the more difficult teams like Uruguay has we'll see what happens. I don't even think Uruguay is clearly better than Argentina, but the few games in qualifying so far aren't anything that indicates Argentina is on another level right now. I don't see how their squad is so much stronger like you claim it is either.

It's a bit funny because all I ever see with your posts regarding Argentina is about how shit everything is but now they're trending upwards and definitely better than Uruguay in all departments.

 

[cgf]

They don’t however ive been hearing of Uruguay’s next generation for about 3/4 years now. I’m still wondering when it’s going to show up. They have some nice pieces here and there but hardly anything more than usual. 2018 they barely out performed a tragic Argentina team. (If they did at all) last copa they did even worse. Lost to Peru in the quarters. Their at the point where they either perform or it’s just hype.

Hell just last month in the qualifiers they lost to Ecuador. I don’t see how their better than Argentina who are trending up.

Fair enough, I think we'll know how good they'll be by the end of the WC. Withhow young those forwards are & the pandemic, I think they have until then to show what they're made off...but if they can't deliver by then, yeah; this generation will have been a disappointment.

Not saying they're better than y'all even if they do deliver. Just that I think they still have time to get there & their talent looks more balanced across their best 11 than their previous generation's talent was, if they do.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

It was a shit group but they still came away with 9 points, Argentina tied against Iceland and got crushed by Croatia, then had to beat Nigeria late to make it to the next round. Uruguay had great wins against Russia and Portugal, more impressive than any result Argentina managed. Overall they had the better World Cup, if getting carved open by France is the best example you can give for Argentina that says it all.

Russia isn't anything special. I also find it a little odd how you use words like "crushed" by Croatia when they lost 3-0 one goal in injury time the other is another late goal. Yet Uruguay losing 2-0 right at the hour mark is a "close" loss. Argentina "carved open" by France when in fact its a 4-3 loss again the closest team to Beat France. Also the only team to have a lead against France. It took a once in a life time shot by some random player for them to beat one of the worst Argentina's sides in recent history. Like I said at first they barely outperformed them and in brackets if they did. It was the first time they did so in about a decade. This was one of the worst Argentina sides to come in to a major tournament. They had just fired their coached and put in Sampoli with just a few months before the tournament. It was just a disarray.

If you want to handpick individual results against Ecuador, Argentina scraped by them at home thanks to a soft penalty. Then they had some more uninspiring performances against Bolivia and Paraguay while Uruguay gets wins against Chile and Colombia. Argentina is fortunate that they've gotten an easier run of fixtures to start the campaign, once they start playing the more difficult teams like Uruguay has we'll see what happens. I don't even think Uruguay is clearly better than Argentina, but the few games in qualifying so far aren't anything that indicates Argentina is on another level right now. I don't see how their squad is so much stronger like you claim it is either.

I'm not hand picking anything. I've looked at the two most recent tournaments one where Argentina were a mess. I also looked at their recent matches. That win was in Bolivia. Much more difficult to beat them in Bolivia than it is to beat Chile for example. I'm looking at the next generation for Argentina and looking at the most recent tournaments. How else do you want me to judge them lol?

It's a bit funny because all I ever see with your posts regarding Argentina is about how shit everything is but now they're trending upwards and definitely better than Uruguay in all departments.

I'm extremely cautious about Argentina and conservative when it comes to their prospects. I mean if you cant see that they're trending upwards you're not paying attention. Just look the young players ready to take centre stage.

Fair enough, I think we'll know how good they'll be by the end of the WC. Withhow young those forwards are & the pandemic, I think they have until then to show what they're made off...but if they can't deliver by then, yeah; this generation will have been a disappointment.

Not saying they're better than y'all even if they do deliver. Just that I think they still have time to get there & their talent looks more balanced across their best 11 than their previous generation's talent was, if they do.

Yeah, that's fair. I mean before the WC we have another Copa in about 8 months. We will have a pretty good picture as to what will happen.

 

[Lambo]

South America Ranking for me:
1. Brazil
2. Argentina
3. Colombia
4. Uruguay
5. Chile
6. Ecuador
7. Peru
8. Paraguay
9. Bolivia
10. Venezuela

 

[Moncherry]

Russia isn't anything special. I also find it a little odd how you use words like "crushed" by Croatia when they lost 3-0 one goal in injury time the other is another late goal. Yet Uruguay losing 2-0 right at the hour mark is a "close" loss. Argentina "carved open" by France when in fact its a 4-3 loss again the closest team to Beat France. Also the only team to have a lead against France. It took a once in a life time shot by some random player for them to beat one of the worst Argentina's sides in recent history. Like I said at first they barely outperformed them and in brackets if they did. It was the first time they did so in about a decade. This was one of the worst Argentina sides to come in to a major tournament. They had just fired their coached and put in Sampoli with just a few months before the tournament. It was just a disarray.

I was going to dissect all this with another wall of text but I can't be bothered. Uruguay did no better than Argentina, winning 4 games is the same as winning 1, all Uruguay's wins were against shit teams. Whatever.

I'm not hand picking anything. I've looked at the two most recent tournaments one where Argentina were a mess. I also looked at their recent matches. That win was in Bolivia. Much more difficult to beat them in Bolivia than it is to beat Chile for example. I'm looking at the next generation for Argentina and looking at the most recent tournaments. How else do you want me to judge them lol?

I'm extremely cautious about Argentina and conservative when it comes to their prospects. I mean if you cant see that they're trending upwards you're not paying attention. Just look the young players ready to take centre stage.

You specifically mentioned the Ecuador game as an example of how Uruguay isn't as good as Argentina, that's what I was referring to. There is hardly a difference in the most recent qualifying results. 7 points in 3 games for Argentina and 6 points from 3 games for Uruguay (in arguably harder fixtures). But yeah Argentina has done a lot better than Uruguay lately, including the last Copa America where they made the semis by beating Qatar and Venezuela. Whatever.