Nathan Beaulieu and Jarred Tinordi

[habs03]

He's playing him now because MB got rid of the 2 undeserving guys playing above him in Bourque and Moen so MT really doesn't have a choice not to play him now with no extra forwards up. I could maybe understand sitting Sekac for a game but not for 7 straight games. That was just a poor decision on someones part.

I think its pretty clear that the only reason Bourque and Moen were getting play time was to showcase them.

Reports are that Bourque wanted out of Mtl because Therrien, doubt Therrien was a fan of Bourque.

 

[habs03]

There was a time where spending 3 years in the AHL was the norm...there's absolutely nothing wrong with Tinordi & Beaulieu spending another year in the AHL.

I still think they need some work personally and the Habs just don't have the luxury of providing them the minutes to develop at the NHL level.

Both Tinordi & Beaulieu need to be more assertive at the NHL level, one is supposed to be a strong defensive & physical player, but he hasn't shown it...the other is supposed to be an offensive puck moving dman and he hasn't shown it either.

Got no issue with this...i'd rather they play in the AHL heavy minutes than continue to be shuffled in and out of the lineup

Again I agree but my question is are they playing heavy minutes in the AHL.

I mean they should be playing 25-27 min in the AHL not 22-23min.

Also there is a likely hood they can play together on the same pair in the NHL, I'd like to see them paired in the AHL too.

Both are lefties, but at times Beaulieu has played RD, even this year when he played with Emelin, Beaulieu played RD.

 

[sheed36]

I think its pretty clear that the only reason Bourque and Moen were getting play time was to showcase them.

Reports are that Bourque wanted out of Mtl because Therrien, doubt Therrien was a fan of Bourque.

Even still having both of them playing at the same time at the expense of Sekac still doesn't make sense to me since there wasn't much to showcase. Any team trading for Moen and Bourque knew what they were getting. Thankfully both are gone and Sekac is in.

 

[417]

Agreed...another season to develop is no biggie....both of them would rather be with the big club, but they have been given chances, and haven't grabbed a hold of a spot convincingly...

Some of today's best players have spent 3+ years in the AHL...not sure what puts Jared Tinordi and Nathan Beaulieu ahead of them

 

[Deebs]

I think its pretty clear that the only reason Bourque and Moen were getting play time was to showcase them.

Reports are that Bourque wanted out of Mtl because Therrien, doubt Therrien was a fan of Bourque.

Bourque is gone because he's consistently terrible and pretty much gutless.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

How about more than 20 games? He already has 14 games with 60 games to go. Surpassing your expectations.

20 straight games with a regular shift. We haven't seen that at all. What we've seen is a guy scared to make a mistake becuase he knows if he makes one he'll sit on the bench all night. And 6 mins a night (which we've seen over the past little while) is ridiculous.

And Gonchar and Gilbert are in the lineup because he has no choice? By your logic that's the case. Bergevin and Therrien talk to one another regarding transactions. Therrien sat Bourque and Bergevin traded him because the results were not there. Therrien doesn't have to play Sekac. He wants to play him and it's paying off.

MT is a bad coach. But like I said, that's for another thread.

 

[Monctonscout]

Even still having both of them playing at the same time at the expense of Sekac still doesn't make sense to me since there wasn't much to showcase. Any team trading for Moen and Bourque knew what they were getting. Thankfully both are gone and Sekac is in.

Sekac wasn't exactly tearing it up. He was a bit lost in his end and had one point, a rebound goal in 5 games. Not like they were taking out a guy with 4 points in 5 games making key contributions.

People see the player Sekac is now and wonder why he was sitting, well the sitting probably helped him play the way he is now. Ideally he would have only sat 2-3 games, but if it allowed MB to move Moen and Bourque it was more than worth it.

 

[habs03]

Bourque is gone because he's consistently terrible and pretty much gutless.

That's why Mtl wants him gone, but I don't think that is the reason why Bourque wanted out of Mtl.

Even Ducks GM Murray confirmed yesterday that Bourque wanted out of Mtl.

 

[habs03]

Even still having both of them playing at the same time at the expense of Sekac still doesn't make sense to me since there wasn't much to showcase. Any team trading for Moen and Bourque knew what they were getting. Thankfully both are gone and Sekac is in.

7 games for Sekac was a little too much but same goes for Bournival.

I mean maybe they knew deals were close and wanted to play them.

I mean I think Moen playing helped use he was still useful on the pk.

I mean during the playoffs Therrien benched Moen in favor of Bournival, hard to believe that over the offseason Therrien suddenly thought Moen was better.

Whether we like it or not, it seems like Bergevin and Therrien are on the right page on a lot of stuff.

a GM doesn't give a coach a 4 year extension at top dollars, when the norm is 2-3 year extension if they weren't on the same page

 

[sheed36]

7 games for Sekac was a little too much but same goes for Bournival.

I mean maybe they knew deals were close and wanted to play them.

I mean I think Moen playing helped use he was still useful on the pk.

I mean during the playoffs Therrien benched Moen in favor of Bournival, hard to believe that over the offseason Therrien suddenly thought Moen was better.

Whether we like it or not, it seems like Bergevin and Therrien are on the right page on a lot of stuff.

a GM doesn't give a coach a 4 year extension at top dollars, when the norm is 2-3 year extension if they weren't on the same page

Oh I forgot about Bournival. You're probably right since I can't see any other reason for having Bourque and Moen playing consistently over Sekac and Bournival. Anyway both are now gone so the problem as been fixed.

 

[Runner77]

Even still having both of them playing at the same time at the expense of Sekac still doesn't make sense to me since there wasn't much to showcase. Any team trading for Moen and Bourque knew what they were getting. Thankfully both are gone and Sekac is in.

When you're dealing with veteran players, what is there to showcase? Unless there were concussion concerns with Moen or Bourque and other teams wanted their scouts to see how they handled physical play. Can't think of any other reason where showcasing has any value or is even going on when a veteran player is involved.

 

[sheed36]

When you're dealing with veteran players, what is there to showcase? Unless there were concussion concerns with Moen or Bourque and other teams wanted their scouts to see how they handled physical play. Can't think of any other reason where showcasing has any value or is even going on when a veteran player is involved.

That's pretty much how I see it.

 

[habs03]

When you're dealing with veteran players, what is there to showcase? Unless there were concussion concerns with Moen or Bourque and other teams wanted their scouts to see how they handled physical play. Can't think of any other reason where showcasing has any value or is even going on when a veteran player is involved.

Disagree, Moen is the best example, this guy was useless in the playoffs, Therrien benched him in favor of Bournival. I doubt any team would have taken on Moen contract after watching the playoffs.

But with his play early in the season, he should he can still be a good pker, and a team that needs help on the pk picked him up in Dallas.

If Moen had played early on this year, I doubt Dallas trades him for an expiring contact without asking for a mid pick, or at least asking Mtl to retain some salary on Moen for next year.

 

[LesHabsRock]

20 straight games with a regular shift. We haven't seen that at all. What we've seen is a guy scared to make a mistake becuase he knows if he makes one he'll sit on the bench all night. And 6 mins a night (which we've seen over the past little while) is ridiculous.

Actually, you're wrong. Beaulieu, over the last 5 games, has averaged ten minutes a game including a game of over 16 minutes and another over 12 minutes. Look at the stats. And 14 straight games or 20 straight games. Who cares. Grasping at straws here.

MT is a bad coach. But like I said, that's for another thread.

Then I'd like to see what a good coach could do with this team. Perhaps we'd be 21-0 instead of 15 wins in 21 games.

 

[S Bah]

Tinordi 22nd OV 2010 and Nathan Beaulieu 17th OV 2011, in the case of Dmen most of them take 4 yrs. before breaking into protected icetime use in the NHL. An extra season playing for the Calder Trophy surely can't hurt their development, another year to mature playing in arguably the next best hockey league outside the NHL. As to the coaching of the rookies, the Parity of teams in the NHL being close to the level of the Original Six, makes it difficult when playing the Elite teams. Players deficiencies are exposed as Beaulieu was by the play of Bennett of Pittsburgh. Great forwards will undress offensive defencemen, making cutesy plays that work in the AHL quite often. Pete Mahovlich said before that game how Bennett's play was so outstanding in the AHL, he had nothing too learn there.

A year vying for the Calder Cup and a long playoff run should be sufficient in preparing these two Dmen for next season, perhaps earlier if they simplify their game. Experience is the necessary ingredient for both,IMHO. Not that I'm any kind of expert, but like most hockey people say, playing in the AHL has never hurt any player. I believe in that theory, the Habs defence will be better for having veteran Dmen like Gonchar, Allen, Weaver and Gilbert. When injuries occur, our AHL dmen will be game ready to step up and have more hockey knowledge to glean from these veterans.

 

[Sterling Archer]

It seems pretty obvious at this point that Tinner and Beau aren't ready to step in a be regular NHLer's at this point. Some extra time in the minors playing big minutes is the onl real way to bring them along and insert them into the lineup. Having them play a handful of minutes in particular situations in the NHL is not conducive to them being consistent and having confidence.

If they can pay 20 min a night in Hamilton and then be called up when they're in full stride will give them the best chance of success at the NHL level IMO.

The only thing that's really starting to worry me now is Sylvain Lefebvre in Hamilton. He doesn't seem capable of coaching his way out of a paper-bag and the prospects are the ones suffering from this. He needs to go before DD does, STAT!

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Actually, you're wrong. Beaulieu, over the last 5 games, has averaged ten minutes a game including a game of over 16 minutes and another over 12 minutes. Look at the stats. And 14 straight games or 20 straight games. Who cares. Grasping at straws here.

His last five games:
16:18
6:43
8:25
6:34
12:14

Does it average out to 10 mins a game? Maybe. Is he playing ten minutes a game? No.

Not grasping at straws for anything here either. I just think you give him a regular shift for 20 games to show what he can do. We haven't done that with this guy. Okay for you to disagree but don't sit there like I'm trying to distort something here.

Then I'd like to see what a good coach could do with this team. Perhaps we'd be 21-0 instead of 15 wins in 21 games.

We got 100 points with him last year. He still sucked.

 

[LesHabsRock]

His last five games:
16:18
6:43
8:25
6:34
12:14

Does it average out to 10 mins a game? Maybe. Is he playing ten minutes a game? No.

Not grasping at straws for anything here either. I just think you give him a regular shift for 20 games to show what he can do. We haven't done that with this guy. Okay for you to disagree but don't sit there like I'm trying to distort something here.

We got 100 points with him last year. He still sucked.

The fact is you're exaggerating the situation to back up the point you're trying to make. You said he's playing 6 mins a game. That is distorting the situation. That's more incorrect and you just proved it with the stats you posted of his last 5 games. I think his numbers are pretty decent for such a young defenseman. You don't see it, but the organization is progressively giving him more games each season. Ditto for Tinordi. Management thinks they need more AHL time and I support that. We have legitimate chance at a Cup this year as this team is a contender. Now is not the time to afford mistakes by two young defensemen in our lineup. Hence the limited minutes and games.

 

[DAChampion]

The fact is you're exaggerating the situation to back up the point you're trying to make. You said he's playing 6 mins a game. That is distorting the situation. That's more incorrect and you just proved it with the stats you posted of his last 5 games. I think his numbers are pretty decent for such a young defenseman. You don't see it, but the organization is progressively giving him more games each season. Ditto for Tinordi. Management thinks they need more AHL time and I support that. We have legitimate chance at a Cup this year as this team is a contender. Now is not the time to afford mistakes by two young defensemen in our lineup. Hence the limited minutes and games.

Now is exactly the time to afford mistakes, it's the regular season.

We will be cup contenders next year as well so "wait till next year to nake mistakes" is irrational.

 

[DAChampion]

When do Tinordi and Beaulieu lose waiver eligibility?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The fact is you're exaggerating the situation to back up the point you're trying to make...

No, I was trying to have a conversation with you but I can see this isn't going to work out. Have a nice day though!

 

[LesHabsRock]

No, I was trying to have a conversation with you but I can see this isn't going to work out. Have a nice day though!

You were having a conversation with me, but it's not going to work out because you say it's not working out. Or maybe you don't like it when facts are presented to you that contradict your opinion. Very odd and overly sensitive. Have a nice day as well.

 

[LesHabsRock]

Now is exactly the time to afford mistakes, it's the regular season.

We will be cup contenders next year as well so "wait till next year to nake mistakes" is irrational.

They're just not ready yet. Why can't you accept that? There are no guarantees we'll be contenders next year. I'm sure Boston thought they'd be contenders this year as well. When Tinordi and Beaulieu are ready they'll play. I'm confident in management right now and I appreciate Bergevin's dedication to success and the goal of winning a cup. He's doing what everybody wants. Instead of being a bubble 7-10 seeded team we're a top ranked team under him with great prospects in Hamilton. What a fantastic situation to be in.

 

[Whitesnake]

This file is just incredibly important for the future of this franchise. You either have a Markov replacement and the biggest shut-down d-man you have had in such a long time. Or you are able to pass them up in a trade in order to get important players in return. You CANNOT lose them for nothing. And you CANNOT have nothing for them and see then shine elsewhere. Bergevin's legacy will be strongly evaluated based on what's coming from those 2 guys.

 

[Rapala]

This file is just incredibly important for the future of this franchise. You either have a Markov replacement and the biggest shut-down d-man you have had in such a long time. Or you are able to pass them up in a trade in order to get important players in return. You CANNOT lose them for nothing. And you CANNOT have nothing for them and see then shine elsewhere. Bergevin's legacy will be strongly evaluated based on what's coming from those 2 guys.

Both will be fine and Nygren is starting to garner some attention.
Beaulieu has to fill a 3-4 at the outset of his Career. Tinner will be fine as a 5-6.
Nygren should be able to replace Weaver/Gilbert soon.

I don't mind moving one of the lefties if we get a grade "A" top 6 forward in return.
If we can do that without touching either even better.