Nathan Beaulieu and Jarred Tinordi

[Lafleurs Guy]

Drafted at the age of 18 years old in 2010. Correct. How many teenaged defensemen play in the league? And at 20-22 years old defenseman are rarely NHL ready. Defensemen take time to develop. Right now the team is deep on D which includes the youngsters. They have been getting valuable experience last year and this year. By next year one or both will be regulars in the lineup. Bergevin is patient with their development. And so should we.

Is it patience or is it our coach wanting to play 'da vets?'

 

[LesHabsRock]

Why not?

The only defensemen on the team playing regularly at 20 plus minutes a game are Subban, Markov and Emelin. You want Beaulieu and Tinordi to play ahead of 2 of those 3?

 

[LesHabsRock]

Is it patience or is it our coach wanting to play 'da vets?'

Maybe it's a conspiracy. Up to you. Or maybe he's playing the vet defensemen Bergevin acquired because he believes this team is a contender. They're first place. Can't argue with that.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The only defensemen on the team playing regularly at 20 plus minutes a game are Subban, Markov and Emelin. You want Beaulieu and Tinordi to play ahead of 2 of those 3?

15 minutes then?

I'm just saying that we should've given the 20 games with a regular shift. We didn't see that.

Maybe it's a conspiracy. Up to you. Or maybe he's playing the vet defensemen Bergevin acquired because he believes this team is a contender.

Conspiracy is not a word I'd use. I think MT likes his vets. We saw that last season with Murray and Cube. Didn't make any sense whatsoever but that's what we saw.

 

[Runner77]

Is it patience or is it our coach wanting to play 'da vets?'

It's the "convenience" factor.

Therrien, at his post-game presser, was asked:

Reporter: Just before the game, it was announced that Bryan Allen was traded to the Canadiens. What's your reaction to that, how do you think having another veteran defenseman will help you?

Therrien: In the course of a season, I'm touching wood, that we don't have any injuries, but we all know that, you need a lot of DEP on defense. He's a guy that was playing with a good hockey team, he's got size, he's physical, so we just added some DEP with our club.

 

[LesHabsRock]

15 minutes then?

I'm just saying that we should've given the 20 games with a regular shift. We didn't see that.

Conspiracy is not a word I'd use. I think MT likes his vets. We saw that last season with Murray and Cube. Didn't make any sense whatsoever but that's what we saw.

I think you have to do what's right for the team. And right now Bergevin's decisions are paying off. MT likes the vets Bergevin acquired. So in essence they're Bergy's vets. Having depth on defense is an asset. To know Beaulieu and Tinordi can be called up and fill a role at anytime and play regular minutes is an asset. So far this team has been healthy except for Weaver going down for a small stint. Those are opportunities for the youngsters to fill in. In the meantime the first place habs and last year's Eastern Finalists are solid at the defensemen position. I like that fact. And I like our future with Tinordi and Beaulieu

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think you have to do what's right for the team.

Sure. But it's not just this season that we should be thinking about.

And right now Bergevin's decisions are paying off.

I agree. But not every move he's made has paid off. MT as the coach I think was a bad move. Murray and Cube last season over Beaulieu I think was a mistake.

Just because I agree with most of what MB does doesn't mean that I agree with everything. Then again... I could be wrong on Beaulieu. Like I said, we don't have all the information behind the scenes.

MT likes the vets Bergevin acquired. So in essence they're Bergy's vets. Having depth on defense is an asset. To know Beaulieu and Tinordi can be called up and fill a role at anytime and play regular minutes is an asset.

I get the feeling that it's not so much about MT "liking" the vets that MB has acquired so much as it is him not liking to play the kids.

So far this team has been healthy except for Weaver going down for a small stint. Those are opportunities for the youngsters to fill in. In the meantime the first place habs and last year's Eastern Finalists are solid at the defensemen position. I like that fact. And I like our future with Tinordi and Beaulieu

The question isn't about our depth though, it's about whether or not those guys should be in Hamilton or in Montreal to develop. Injuries will happen? Sure. But Allen can go to Hamilton and Beaulieu can stay in Montreal.

Anyways, it is what it is and we'll see I guess.

 

[LesHabsRock]

Andrei Markov was drafted in 1998. He bounced around between the big club and AHL club in 2000-01 and 2001-02. His first full season with the Habs was in 2002-03. He was 23 in his first full year as a hab. My point is are Tinordi and Beaulieu more ready than Markov was. If Markov was successful as result of patience developing til the age of 23 then why can't the same work for Tinordi and Beaulieu? It's not normal to have a 21 year old defenseman play regular minutes in the NHL. PK was 22 in his first full season and he is a generational talent.

 

[DAChampion]

Lafleurs,

I worry that what other posters are saying is that if a good prospect needs a painful transition to break into the NHL then we should never shift them into the NHL.

We need to wait until they can dominate as rookies like Gallagher did, otherwise the 30 or 40 games where they play badly are not worth the risk. If they don't grow to become better players at the end then all yoy have is 30 or 40 games where they played badly.

I don't endorse this view.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Andrei Markov was drafted in 1998. He bounced around between the big club and AHL club in 2000-01 and 2001-02. His first full season with the Habs was in 2002-03. He was 23 in his first full year as a hab. My point is are Tinordi and Beaulieu more ready than Markov was. If Markov was successful as result of patience developing til the age of 23 then why can't the same work for Tinordi and Beaulieu? It's not normal to have a 21 year old defenseman play regular minutes in the NHL. PK was 22 in his first full season and he is a generational talent.

Nobody is saying they can't be effective developing in the minors for longer. The question is whether or not they'd be better off developing in the NHL instead.

 

[HabsQC]

both busts trade them both for 7th rounders

 

[Video Coach]

They had opportunities to solidify a spot and both have simply not played well enough for long enough.

They still have time to develop though. No need to force them into a make or break situation.

 

[LesHabsRock]

Sure. But it's not just this season that we should be thinking about.

Why not? The team is first overall and playing like it. They are contenders. This opportunity doesn't come along very often and Bergevin is tweaking his team for a run.

I agree. But not every move he's made has paid off. MT as the coach I think was a bad move. Murray and Cube last season over Beaulieu I think was a mistake.

The bulk of his moves have paid off which is why they're first overall. MT as coach has turned out to be a great move. Can't argue with first place after a great run last year. The team is playing like a winner too.

Just because I agree with most of what MB does doesn't mean that I agree with everything. Then again... I could be wrong on Beaulieu. Like I said, we don't have all the information behind the scenes.

Nobody agrees with everything anybody does.

I get the feeling that it's not so much about MT "liking" the vets that MB has acquired so much as it is him not liking to play the kids.

I think he likes the kids. Defensemen at such a young age are vulnerable and need more time than forwards. If MT didn't like kids Sekac, gallagher and Galchenyuk wouldn't be playing by your logic.

The question isn't about our depth though, it's about whether or not those guys should be in Hamilton or in Montreal to develop. Injuries will happen? Sure. But Allen can go to Hamilton and Beaulieu can stay in Montreal.

Anyways, it is what it is and we'll see I guess.

It is about our depth. Depth on D is crucial and now we have it. Beaulieu and Tinordi are part of it and will step in nicely when needed until full time roles with the team possibly as early as next year or this year. Still 60 games left.

Yes we will see

 

[Kachino]

They will play with the Montreal Canadiens on a regular basis at some point during the season because there will be injuries to the group of defensemen. If I was coaching, then I would definitely put both in the line-up and live with all their mistakes because I believe in their potential ... However, there's a reason why I'm not coaching . Anyways, they will have an opportunity to make an impact with this team.

 

[Brainiac]

Lafleurs,

I worry that what other posters are saying is that if a good prospect needs a painful transition to break into the NHL then we should never shift them into the NHL.

We need to wait until they can dominate as rookies like Gallagher did, otherwise the 30 or 40 games where they play badly are not worth the risk. If they don't grow to become better players at the end then all yoy have is 30 or 40 games where they played badly.

I don't endorse this view.

I think there's a lot of grey areas on that one. Sometimes, a prospect will breakout because you gave him the opportunity. And sometimes, it's the opposite, a prospect will reach his full potential because you were patient with him.

I'm not saying much here, besides that we don't know what will happen with 20 yo. dmen.

 

[LesHabsRock]

Nobody is saying they can't be effective developing in the minors for longer. The question is whether or not they'd be better off developing in the NHL instead.

And the answer is No. They're better off developing with the farm club. That's what farm clubs do. They farm or raise their chickens until they're ready to be on their own. It's progressive. They're playing more games each year with the big club. All signs are pointing to one or both playing regular roles with them in the next year.

Tinordi went from playing 8 games in 2012-13 to 22 games in 2013-14. He's played 9 already this year.

With Nathan Beaulieu we've seen a similar pattern. 2012-13 played 6 games, 2013-14 played 17 games (plus 7 playoff games). This year has already played 14 games. The progression is there.

Good on Bergevin and Therrien for giving very young defenseman valuable NHL experience while having all that depth on D in the organization.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Lafleurs,

I worry that what other posters are saying is that if a good prospect needs a painful transition to break into the NHL then we should never shift them into the NHL.

We need to wait until they can dominate as rookies like Gallagher did, otherwise the 30 or 40 games where they play badly are not worth the risk. If they don't grow to become better players at the end then all yoy have is 30 or 40 games where they played badly.

I don't endorse this view.

Yup, if you're going to play them you've got to let them make their mistakes. So they can make those mistakes now and learn from them now or we can delay it. Leaving them in the minors isn't going to mean that they won't make mistakes when they're called up. I think they might as well just let them develop up here instead.

Why not? The team is first overall and playing like it. They are contenders. This opportunity doesn't come along very often and Bergevin is tweaking his team for a run.

So give the kid 20 games to show what he can do. If he can't cut it then send him down. But give him a chance.

The bulk of his moves have paid off which is why they're first overall. MT as coach has turned out to be a great move. Can't argue with first place after a great run last year. The team is playing like a winner too.

Totally disagree with you here. That is a conversation for another time though.

Nobody agrees with everything anybody does.

I think he likes the kids. Defensemen at such a young age are vulnerable and need more time than forwards. If MT didn't like kids Sekac, gallagher and Galchenyuk wouldn't be playing by your logic.

Sekac is only in the lineup because our GM gave our coach no other choice. He was sitting on the bench collecting splinters in his butt when MB stepped in and banished Bork to Hamilton.

I think there's a lot of grey areas on that one. Sometimes, a prospect will breakout because you gave him the opportunity. And sometimes, it's the opposite, a prospect will reach his full potential because you were patient with him.

I'm not saying much here, besides that we don't know what will happen with 20 yo. dmen.

Last year it was black and white. Beaulieu was better than any option we had in the lineup for our 6th dman. This year we've got more to choose from. So yes, it's more grey than it was.

 

[LesHabsRock]

So give the kid 20 games to show what he can do. If he can't cut it then send him down. But give him a chance.

How about more than 20 games? He already has 14 games with 60 games to go. Surpassing your expectations.

Sekac is only in the lineup because our GM gave our coach no other choice. He was sitting on the bench collecting splinters in his butt when MB stepped in and banished Bork to Hamilton.

And Gonchar and Gilbert are in the lineup because he has no choice? By your logic that's the case. Bergevin and Therrien talk to one another regarding transactions. Therrien sat Bourque and Bergevin traded him because the results were not there. Therrien doesn't have to play Sekac. He wants to play him and it's paying off.

 

[Hannibal]

I'm still don't approve the way the management are handling the Tinordi/Beaulieu case. One of them should be regular in our top6. Maybe even both. If Therrien expect both of them coming into the lineup making ZERO mistakes, guess what, you're wrong pal. They will make mistakes, it's part of the process. But when they're gonna make one, don't bench them. You're ruinning their confidence even more.

And what's up with the win-now attitude? I mean, our cup-window isn't even fully open. It's the perfect time to let them play in the NHL. So, when our cup-window will be wide open, they will both be ready to take full charges. Now we're playing 35+ year old vets, that won't even be there next season. So next year, when we're supposed to be real contender, by MB's mouth, both Tinordi and Beaulieu will be rookies again.

Complete BS, as far as i'm concerned. I don't approve the way the management handled this situation.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

We have 4 defence who are 34 years old or older, we'll deal with injuries throughout the year and guys like Markov/Gonchar will likely get rested later in the year to keep them fresh for the playoffs... let the two kids improve in the AHL and odds are they'll get opportunities over the year.

If they deserve a spot Bergevin will make room for them (for example Sekac), but right now neither has consistently shown they can be a top 6 defenceman.

 

[sheed36]

How about more than 20 games? He already has 14 games with 60 games to go. Surpassing your expectations.



And Gonchar and Gilbert are in the lineup because he has no choice? By your logic that's the case. Bergevin and Therrien talk to one another regarding transactions. Therrien sat Bourque and Bergevin traded him because the results were not there. Therrien doesn't have to play Sekac. He wants to play him and it's paying off.

He's playing him now because MB got rid of the 2 undeserving guys playing above him in Bourque and Moen so MT really doesn't have a choice not to play him now with no extra forwards up. I could maybe understand sitting Sekac for a game but not for 7 straight games. That was just a poor decision on someones part.

 

[Guy Germaine]

I would ask for a trade if I was either guy, no future with the habs why waste their time. MB loves old medicore dman that remind him of himself.

Hittin' the screech a little too hard there?

better to play a big role in the AHL, rather than a small one in the NHL. Develop them properly.

 

[417]

There was a time where spending 3 years in the AHL was the norm...there's absolutely nothing wrong with Tinordi & Beaulieu spending another year in the AHL.

I still think they need some work personally and the Habs just don't have the luxury of providing them the minutes to develop at the NHL level.

Both Tinordi & Beaulieu need to be more assertive at the NHL level, one is supposed to be a strong defensive & physical player, but he hasn't shown it...the other is supposed to be an offensive puck moving dman and he hasn't shown it either.

Got no issue with this...i'd rather they play in the AHL heavy minutes than continue to be shuffled in and out of the lineup

 

[BLONG7]

There was a time where spending 3 years in the AHL was the norm...there's absolutely nothing wrong with Tinordi & Beaulieu spending another year in the AHL.

I still think they need some work personally and the Habs just don't have the luxury of providing them the minutes to develop at the NHL level.

Both Tinordi & Beaulieu need to be more assertive at the NHL level, one is supposed to be a strong defensive & physical player, but he hasn't shown it...the other is supposed to be an offensive puck moving dman and he hasn't shown it either.

Got no issue with this...i'd rather they play in the AHL heavy minutes than continue to be shuffled in and out of the lineup

Agreed...another season to develop is no biggie....both of them would rather be with the big club, but they have been given chances, and haven't grabbed a hold of a spot convincingly...

 

[Habs Icing]

There was a time where spending 3 years in the AHL was the norm...there's absolutely nothing wrong with Tinordi & Beaulieu spending another year in the AHL.

I still think they need some work personally and the Habs just don't have the luxury of providing them the minutes to develop at the NHL level.

Both Tinordi & Beaulieu need to be more assertive at the NHL level, one is supposed to be a strong defensive & physical player, but he hasn't shown it...the other is supposed to be an offensive puck moving dman and he hasn't shown it either.

Got no issue with this...i'd rather they play in the AHL heavy minutes than continue to be shuffled in and out of the lineup

This!!!!