Nashville Stars, proposed MLB expansion team discussion

[GindyDraws]

Jeezum Crow. We're talking about a potential site for relocation or expansion, and here you are, adding 800 teams and renaming franchises in your fantasy scenario.

But I'll humor you. In regards to your last post, Orlando is a horrible, HORRIBLE place for baseball. Not only is Florida just not suited for baseball in general (too many transients who prefer their original teams, which means lack of support for the two teams it does have), but Orlando has flopped countless times in the minor league level. Folding the Kissimmee Cobras was a no-brainer when the Florida State League had to reduce from 14 teams to 12 when minor league baseball wanted an even 30 teams between all the full season levels, the Orlando Rays never were able to draw fans in the Southern League, and the Florida Fire Frogs were the laughingstock of the Florida State League during their short stay in Kissimmee in both attendance and on the field. There's looking at population numbers and just being realistic about what fans are interested in. I'm sure there are baseball fans in Orlando, but realistically, there aren't enough to support a minor league team in Orlando, let alone a major league team.

And, most minor league ballparks can't just be converted into major league stadiums. Heck, one of the reasons why the Seattle Pilots were a one-and-done was due to such a conversion. You'd have to build a brand new ballpark from the ground up.

 

[HisIceness]

An ideal location for an MLB park in Charlotte would be near Carowinds amusement park.

Trust me, it wouldn't. The traffic in that area is bad at rush hour and if there's an accident at any time of day? Forget it, you are not going anywhere for an hour. Then you're talking about the Carowinds traffic which would be at high peak during the MLB season. The ideal place for a stadium would be somewhere in which fans could get to the park via the light rail.

the Orlando Rays never were able to draw fans in the Southern League

I went to one of those games their first year at the Wide World of Sports stadium, 2000 I think. I was shocked at the number of empty seats. This was one of their marquee games w/ fireworks afterwards and the place was something like 40% full. It had to have been a real bummer for the players and employees of that franchise that things didn't work in Orlando and they had to pack up and relocate to Montgomery, AL of all places.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

I think a big reason Orlando didn't support minor league baseball is because they felt worthy of being a major league city, especially considering they have an NBA team.

Many large markets (that is, top 25) would prefer to have major league teams over minor league teams in any sport. A huge reason Seattle hadn't had a minor league hockey team in decades is because many wanted an NHL team and when the proposed Seattle NHL team in the 1970s did not pan out, they still held out hope that they would still get into the NHL one day, and Seattle probably rejected any attempts to establish a minor league team there. Now it's 2020, and the Seattle Kraken are one year away from starting play.

 

[GindyDraws]

I think a big reason Orlando didn't support minor league baseball is because they felt worthy of being a major league city, especially considering they have an NBA team.

You know who also felt worthy of being a major league city? The Tampa Bay market. They even built a stadium in the hopes of getting a team, either by relocation or expansion. And for the past 20+ years, the Devil Rays/Rays have been at or near the bottom of league attendance despite dealing with the issue of Florida's weather problems by building the ugliest stadium in all of baseball. You can argue that they're in a terrible area, and I can agree to that, but the fact that a good team routinely has abysmal attendance in which people don't even attempt to make an effort to visit highlights a fundamental problem that likely won't be solved by just building a new ballpark in a more accessible area.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

You know who also felt worthy of being a major league city? The Tampa Bay market. They even built a stadium in the hopes of getting a team, either by relocation or expansion. And for the past 20+ years, the Devil Rays/Rays have been at or near the bottom of league attendance despite dealing with the issue of Florida's weather problems by building the ugliest stadium in all of baseball. You can argue that they're in a terrible area, and I can agree to that, but the fact that a good team routinely has abysmal attendance in which people don't even attempt to make an effort to visit highlights a fundamental problem that likely won't be solved by just building a new ballpark in a more accessible area.

you do realize that the Lightning played there, JD

 

[rojac]

you do realize that the Lightning played there, JD

Yes, the Lightning played there, but St. Petersburg built the dome to attract MLB.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I think Vegas, Portland, Nashville, Montreal should each be the next places to get MLB.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Yes, the Lightning played there, but St. Petersburg built the dome to attract MLB.

so...they got what they wanted the White Sox nor the Giants were going there

 

[KevFu]

I'm not sure if Hartford's current minor league park could be upgraded and expanded to meet MLB standards.

No minor league stadium is up to the standards you'd need to have an MLB franchise there "permanently."

What does it tell you that Turner Field and the Ballpark at Arlington were replaced after opening in the mid-90s. The Braves started replacing Turner when it was 17 years old. There's "MLB standards" for competition (like the Jays are working on in Buffalo right now), and there's "MLB standards" like the Rockies playing at Mile High while Coors Field was being built.

But as a long-term HOME for an MLB team? No minor league facility measures up. Charlotte's is probably the closest from an amenities standpoint, but it holds 10,200 and has one third the number of suites as the average MLB stadium. You can't put an MLB team in there permanently because it will be dead last in revenue, so what's the point of adding the team?

Any expansion team is going to build a brand new $800+ million MLB stadium.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

No minor league stadium is up to the standards you'd need to have an MLB franchise there "permanently."

What does it tell you that Turner Field and the Ballpark at Arlington were replaced after opening in the mid-90s. The Braves started replacing Turner when it was 17 years old. There's "MLB standards" for competition (like the Jays are working on in Buffalo right now), and there's "MLB standards" like the Rockies playing at Mile High while Coors Field was being built.

But as a long-term HOME for an MLB team? No minor league facility measures up. Charlotte's is probably the closest from an amenities standpoint, but it holds 10,200 and has one third the number of suites as the average MLB stadium. You can't put an MLB team in there permanently because it will be dead last in revenue, so what's the point of adding the team?

Any expansion team is going to build a brand new $800+ million MLB stadium.

If a Nashville expansion team came before the MLB stadium was built it might be more practical to temporary retrofit nissan stadium for baseball. Instead of maximizing the limited revenue they can make from a full season in first tennessee park.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

If a Nashville expansion team came before the MLB stadium was built it might be more practical to temporary retrofit nissan stadium for baseball. Instead of maximizing the limited revenue they can make from a full season in first tennessee park.

No way the Nashville team (if it's awarded) shares a stadium with an NFL team. We're no longer in the era where NFL and MLB teams share on even a temporary basis.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

No way the Nashville team (if it's awarded) shares a stadium with an NFL team. We're no longer in the era where NFL and MLB teams share on even a temporary basis.

The concession and ticket revenue for the Nashville Expansion team would be last in the league by a wide margin if they played in a milb park for 80 home game on a temporary basis .

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Remember that the Dodgers chose to play temporarily at LA Coliseum when they moved to the city. It had a terrible setup for baseball.

I can tell you that fans don't want to see baseball played at a newer venue designed primarily for football, where the setups for baseball would be horrid (unlike most situations where MLB and NFL teams used to share facilities on a regular basis, because these stadiums were designed to easily host both sports).

 

[KevFu]

The days of awarding an expansion team and them needing a temporary place to play are over, because multipurpose stadiums are dead.

Arizona and Tampa Bay had MLB stadiums before they started. Tampa Bay's was pre-existing, but Arizona got a team and built a stadium in the time it took for them to start (2.5 years).

Miami and Denver had multi-purpose stadiums, and Denver would have been done with Coors Field before they started but there was an ownership scandal that slowed down the start of construction. The Rockies replaced owners from the time the franchise was awarded to the time they started playing, and while they looked for a new guy, construction was on hold.

The NHL and Seattle worked together on a timeline so the Kraken started when their arena was done. Originally it was going to be for the 20-21 season, but OVG thought that would be cutting it close on the arena.

Leiweke, in a statement to KING5, said “We are focused on and expect to be ready for the 2020-2021 season should approval be given for us to join as the 32nd franchise, per the request of the NHL. Should that direction from the NHL change, we are prepared to move to 2021-2022. The actual start year is also dependent on the timeline for approval and EIS process in Seattle, as well as the construction process. We know there are other considerations that the NHL will weigh as it makes its decision.”


An MLB team in Nashville is going to be awarded 2.5 years before they start play, and the shovel will go into the ground on their stadium within weeks of the announcement.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Alright, I've come up with prosepctive nicknames for all of my proposed MLB expansion teams:

32-team alignment:
Montreal Expos (reflects former MLB team)
Either Memphis Blues (for the Memphis blues scene) or Nashville Volunteers (Tennessee is the Volunteer State)

40-team alignment:
Charlotte or Carolina Monarchs (Charlotte is the Queen City)
Indianapolis Speed (reflects city's huge auto racing tradition)
Hartford Colonials (a number of signigicant events in the colonial period took place in Connecticut)
Louisville Sluggers (after the popular brand of baseball bat)
Buffalo Bisons (traditional name for baseball teams in the city)
San Antonio Missions (traditional name for baseball teams in the city)
Las Vegas Martians (reflects proximity to Area 51)
Portland Beavers (traditional name for baseball teams in the city)

48-team alignment:
Orlando Suns (Florida is the Sunshine State)
Oklahoma City Oilers (Oklahoma is a big oil state)
Birmingham Iron (Birmingham is a huge center for iron production, plus Barons would be taken by the renamed Cleveland team)
Hampton Roads Sailors
Ottawa Capitals (capital city of Canada)
Diablos Rojos del México (already the name for the current Mexican League team in Mexico City)
Sacramento Camelias (Sacramento is called the "Camelia City")
Utah Saints (reflects LDS culture of Utah)

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Alright, for my new-look AL and NL, here's a breakdown of the years each city in those leagues has been in them, with some NL markets having also been represented by now-defunct teams at different times in the 19th century:

AL:
Baltimore: 1901-02, 1954-present
Boston: 1901-present (also in NL from 1876-1952)
Chicago: 1901-present
Cleveland: 1901-present
Detroit: 1901-present
Kansas City: 1955-67, 1969-present
New York: 1903-present
Washington: 1901-71, 2026-future

NL:
Chicago: 1876-present
Cincinnati: 1876-80, 1890-present
Miami: 1993-present
Milwaukee: 1878, 1953-65, 1998-present (in AL in 1901 and from 1970-97)
New York: 1876, 1883-1957, 1962-present (Brooklyn, which joined in 1890, merged with NYC in 1898)
Philadelphia: 1876, 1883-present (also in AL from 1901-54)
Pittsburgh: 1887-present
St. Louis: 1876-77, 1885-86, 1892-present (also in AL from 1902-53)

So outside of Miami, the cities listed here were part of MLB during the modern era at some point prior to 1958 (the first west coast moves).

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Timberlake in Nashville group seeking MLB team

Justin Timberlake is joining the group working on bringing MLB to Nashville.

If Memphis wants to land Tennessee's MLB team, they need to make some moves quickly. After all, Memphis getting MLB would give both it and Nashville one big 4 team in an indoor league and one in an outdoor league.

 

[HisIceness]

Memphis will never have an MLB team. If the league is going to Tennessee, it's Nashville or nothing.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I think they should go by another name.

Don't know why they're crazy about Nashville, but I think Las Vegas despite not having a stadium would be an excellent option. Portland and Montreal too.

But I can see Baseball going through a HUGE expansion between the '20-'40s.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

I've already said that Montreal and Nashville seem likely for the next two teams.

While I do understand one poster's view against reusing the Expos name in Montreal, I think at this point Montreal won't accept any nickname but the Expos.

And with my proposed 4-league alignment giving the AL the same 8 cities it had from 1955-60, the NL the same 7 cities it had from 1953-57 (with Miami replacing the 2nd NYC team, thus 15 AL and NL teams are all in Northeastern and Midwestern markets that were in MLB at some point between 1901-57), the new Continental League containing the 8 other Eastern/Central markets that first gained an MLB team after 1960, and the Mountain/Pacific teams in the new Pacific Coast League, I think MLB will prosper under this setup, given that PCL teams only would have to play three 3-game series in interleague play east of the MTZ (one in each league on a rotating basis) and the ET/CT teams only have to play one 3-game series west of the CTZ interleague.

The Continental League would be the only league long-term to include non-US teams, and ultimately when MLB is at 48 teams (12 in each league), the CL would have 3 teams in Eastern Canada (Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto) and one team in Mexico City, a first for the big 4 sports leagues.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Why would want to join now with well documented league wide attendance drops pre-pandemic, and the sport at one of it's all time lowest points of fan/national interests?

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Why would want to join now with well documented league wide attendance drops pre-pandemic, and the sport at one of it's all time lowest points of fan/national interests?

TV contracts alone can support $100 million payrolls for even the smallest markets.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

TV contracts alone can support $100 million payrolls for even the smallest markets.

That's all well and good, paid tickets keep teams alive and aloat, and as I just pointed out ever since Roger Clemens, Raphael Palmario, Mark McGuire and all those other repulsive looking compulsive lying roidy meat slappers made total dinks out of themselves in Federal court, and under oath interest and attendance as been down league wide, tv contracts only take you so far, if fans aren't interested, why expand?

 

[tarheelhockey]

An ideal location for an MLB park in Charlotte would be near Carowinds amusement park.

This was already done with the old Charlotte Knights (AAA stadium), and everybody hated it. There's a reason they built the newer stadium in the most central location possible.

If you could just build a stadium anywhere in the city Sim City style, the true ideal (other than smack in the middle of Uptown where the new stadium currently is) would probably be something in the vicinity of the Wilmore neighborhood slightly west of the South End district. At least in terms of achieving the trifecta of creating a fun atmosphere, leveraging a wide variety of options for traffic management (and also sending it in every direction rather than along a single corridor), and leveraging the location for urban development purposes.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

That's all well and good, paid tickets keep teams alive and aloat, and as I just pointed out ever since Roger Clemens, Raphael Palmario, Mark McGuire and all those other repulsive looking compulsive lying roidy meat slappers made total dinks out of themselves in Federal court, and under oath interest and attendance as been down league wide, tv contracts only take you so far, if fans aren't interested, why expand?

They wouldn't get the TV contracts they do if fans weren't interested.