Way to say something everyone knew about since Colorado days. Anyone who gives him 8M AAV will get him including Leafs. Good luck to Barrie in getting as much as he can but my bet would be he will be LUCKY to get 5M per. and I'm not sure he will get that. Likely another Gards type contract late in summer.
Salary Cap: Muzzin OR Barrie (Pick One)
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MyBudJT
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The grass is always greener on the other side.
For example, I'll be the first one to bet money that D like Burns, Doughty, Pietrangelo would get ripped apart by our fans. They would go from franchise #1Ds to overrated #2Ds so fast. Barrie went from a great #2D to being trash and ripped apart by y'all.
See that Voracek overtime goal yesterday? Guess who he dangled and embarrassed? Pietrangelo. If that happened to a Toronto D, we'd be hearing and talking about it for the next 2 weeks lol.
You're welcome to this opinion, but its wrong.... All defensmen get walked, everyone realizes that...
Barrie gets walked/misses assignments like 8 or 9 times out of every 10 plays. He simply is incompetent defensively, like below AHL average bad. Its no wonder why he makes so many poor pinches, its because he wouldn't have been able to stop anything defensively anyways....
A1LeafNation
Obsession beats talent everytime!!
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To start, I'm sure majority teams have 7 dmen playing between 40-80 games a season.
BlueForever75
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That is over doing it!!! Gardiner was the same player as Barrie playing the opposite side. Same player.
I would say Barrie is better offensively then Gardiner ever was or will be. Defensively they are the same player.
A1LeafNation
Obsession beats talent everytime!!
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LeafingTheWay
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I never compared Barrie to them. Where are you getting that? I said those defensemen would get their ripped apart by our fans and you're proving my point.
That's just embarrassing dude. This is exactly what I was talking about lol. Tyson Barrie went from being a fantastic offensive-#2D (well-known league wide), to now being called a throw-in piece in trades and trash defensemen in Toronto.
LeafingTheWay
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That's my point though. The bolded is completely wrong.
If you truly believe Barrie gets walked/missess assignments like 8 or 9 times out of every 10 plays, we should just fire Sheldon Keefe today. I don't know what else to say lol. Jake Gardiner got the same exact treament from y'all and it's completely incorrect.
MyBudJT
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Lol, those "stats and analytics" don't show the extremely soft usage he's had behind Auston Matthews who has been completely dominant. That alone would make any defender look elite.
MyBudJT
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I loved Jake Gardiner. He was significantly better defensively than Barrie.
Agreed you have to discount garbage time results in a hockey game as they mean diddly. But issue with Barrie is we have Rielly and now Sandin who can do what Barrie can do. So if we tank in next 2-3 weeks Barrie becomes one of our trade chips to get another NHL defender next draft.
Duffman955
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No playoff team is trading #2Dmen +#2/3C for a #2C
Avs so huge deficiencies in his game and traded him. He has to be heavily sheltered and used exclusively on the PP and offensive zone.
Avs so huge deficiencies in his game and traded him. He has to be heavily sheltered and used exclusively on the PP and offensive zone.
LeafingTheWay
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The fact that Tyson Barrie went from being a #2D offensive D-man to being called a trash D-man is hysterical. Fans across HFBoards voted more for Barrie when compared to guys like Krug, Dumba, Klefbom, etc.
It's also hysterical people saying Jake Gardiner is 10 times better than Tyson Barrie. I loved Gardiner and defended him for years, but there are lot hypocrites right now that are saying Gardiner is much better lol.
Here are just some of the example polls over the last 2-ish years:
Jake Gardiner vs Tyson Barrie
Oscar Klefbom vs Tyson Barrie
Brodie vs Barrie
Tyson Barrie or Matthew Dumba
Barrie vs Krug vs Shattenkirk
It's also hysterical people saying Jake Gardiner is 10 times better than Tyson Barrie. I loved Gardiner and defended him for years, but there are lot hypocrites right now that are saying Gardiner is much better lol.
Here are just some of the example polls over the last 2-ish years:
Jake Gardiner vs Tyson Barrie
Oscar Klefbom vs Tyson Barrie
Brodie vs Barrie
Tyson Barrie or Matthew Dumba
Barrie vs Krug vs Shattenkirk
Super Mega
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Barrie is an elite producer no doubt there but with that production likely comes a large price tag. Leafs have options to fill what Barrie provides, no need to directly compare a Sandin or a Dermott to Barrie, just that its clear the leafs have offensive D options on the roster that could more than make up for Barrie leaving.
Muzzin adds a much different look and I think playing a competent safe physical role at a high level is just as rare to find in the NHL. More importantly, it likely comes at a reduced cost.
If you can be mindful of term (no more than 4 years) Muzzin is a valuable defensive tool on a roster of offensive weapons. His brand of hockey does bring some risk as far as injury risk, but its a necessary risk when you need that type of player.
Muzzin adds a much different look and I think playing a competent safe physical role at a high level is just as rare to find in the NHL. More importantly, it likely comes at a reduced cost.
If you can be mindful of term (no more than 4 years) Muzzin is a valuable defensive tool on a roster of offensive weapons. His brand of hockey does bring some risk as far as injury risk, but its a necessary risk when you need that type of player.
MyBudJT
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Its even more hysterical that people think that Gardiner was the same as Barrie defensively....
Gardiner's worst season defeinsvely was still better than Barrie's best season defensively.
Numbers below
Jake Gardiner:
15-16: 0.78 EV GA/GP; 50.6% 5v5 OZ%; 16:49 5v5 TOI/GP
16-17: 0.65 EV GA/GP; 54% 5v5 OZ%; 17:36 5v5 TOI/GP
17-18: 0.82 EV GA/GP; 47.4% 5v5 OZ%; 18:54 5v5 TOI/GP
18-19: 0.72 EV GA/GP; 48.7% 5v5 OZ%; 18:18 5v5 TOI/GP
AVG: 0.74 EV GA/GP; 50.25 5v5 OZ%; 17:54 5v5 TOI/GP
Tyson Barrie:
16-17: 1.11 EV GA/GP; 56.7% 5v5 OZ%; 18:39 5v5 TOI/GP
17-18: 1.01 EV GA/GP; 61.3% 5v5 OZ%; 17:47 5v5 TOI/GP
18-19: 0.87 EV GA/GP; 63.1% 5v5 OZ%; 16:49 5v5 TOI/GP
19-20: 1.02 EV GA/GP; 55.2% 5v5 OZ%; 17:48 5v5 TOI/GP
AVG: 1.00 EV GA/GP; 59.08% 5v5 OZ%; 17:46 TOI/GP
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Duffman955
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Like shattenkirk, hes turning into a 3rd pairing PP specialist.
Gary Nylund
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He's that good eh, wow!
If we tank, there is no point in keeping Barrie. We're not tanking though so that's that.
Oh look, evidence to back up opinions, how cool. The guy claiming Gardiner was 10 times as good as Barrie should find this interesting.
Duffman955
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He's that good eh, wow!
If we tank, there is no point in keeping Barrie. We're not tanking though so that's that.
Oh look, evidence to back up opinions, how cool. The guy claiming Gardiner was 10 times as good as Barrie should find this interesting.
Look at 2 posts above for real evidence
Cherry picked polls on HF is not evidence.
Muzzin, and it isn't even close. He's the only guy that brings what he does to the TML blue line. And he's basically good at everything.
Gary Nylund
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I don't see anything anywhere that proves Gardiner is 10x as good as Barrie. That still sounds like hysterical nonsense to me, sorry.
LeafingTheWay
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I never once said Barrie was better defensively than Gardiner. I was one of Gardiner's biggest fans and always defended him as a super-underrated D. In facts, I was one of the posters like you that posted over the years similar stats to defend Gardiner.
I would have told you myself Gardiner was better than Barrie. I'm also saying Jake Muzzin is better than Tyson Barrie, no doubt. However
My point is that:
- The overwhelming consensus among fans league-wide was that Barrie was a great offensive #2D (as was Gardiner).
- The overwhelming consensus among Leaf fans was Jake Gardiner was garbage.
- The overwhelming consensus among Leaf fans was Barrie was better than Gardiner.
Hence my "Grass is always greener on the other side" post and "y'all are hypocrites" post (not targeted at you).
Carlo played more than 20 minutes a game, all 82 games at 19 years old.
McAvoy at 19 started with Boston in the playoffs playing more than 26 minutes a game.
Colorado traded Barrie to make room for Makar so he could jump from 17+ minutes a game in last years playoffs to 20+ minutes a game in his rookie season (20 when the season started).
Hughes is playing more than 21 minutes a game as a rookie (was 20 when the season started).
Heiskanen was 19 last season. Played more than 23 minutes a game.
Werenski played over 20 minutes a game at 19.
Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
All these teams made sure there was room for their talented young D when they entered the NHL, and that is what all teams that successfully develop great D prospects do. Almost all top-4 D started out as top-4 D or were within a couple dozen games, or were sent back to the minors. Dermott was developing extremely rapidly on the Marlies and completely stalled out on the Leafs playing every game on the sheltered bottom pairing here (as was also the case with young D prospects in Detroit under Babcock - where the best thing for your career was to get traded away or claimed off waivers - like Quincey - after 13 games total, under 13 minutes per, over more than 3 years under Babcock). You want the Leafs to do an even more disastrous job of developing Sandin?
If this team won't develop D properly they should do them courtesy of trading them to a team that will.
And no the majority of teams do not have 7 D playing 40 or more games a season - not even close. 195 D played 40 or more games last year which means, at most, 9 teams had 7 D playing 40 or more games last season.
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MyBudJT
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I didn't say that you said Barrie was better than Gardiner defensively. :p You were insinuating that Barrie and Gardiner are similar, which i don't think is true. Another poster claimed they were the same defensively.
Nobody is questioning Barrie's offensive abilities, but Barrie's defensive abilities are so bad that it pretty much negates all the benefits of Barrie's offensive output. To suggest that his offensive output is worth 6.9m while he is easily one of the worst defensive players in the game is just absurd to me.
LeafingTheWay
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LOL okay, bit extra of both of us then
But yeah, agree to disagree in regards to "defensive abilities are so bad that it pretty much negates all the benefits of Barrie's offensive output".
BlueBaron
Registered User
I'd like to sign Muzzin and if things go bad the next while maybe trade Barrie.
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