Salary Cap: Muzzin OR Barrie (Pick One)

[Gary Nylund]

I disagree. The numbers on Barrie are $8,000,000 and have been mentioned by Lebrun and the likes. Darn right he won’t be signed by us. Muzzin is what we need not Barrie. You can think a poor defensive player is valuable on a forward rich offensively oriented team that needs to play smart with constant reads required to play our style.

Well Liljegren needs to replace him when we forecast our cap situation moving forward. I believe Liljegren is a homegrown Keefe defenseman with a better defensive game and skates every bit as good but needs Nhl reps and some comfort level and confidence.

Liljegren has a far superior defensive conscience already.

What is it you disagree with exactly? I said I don't think we'll resign him so that's not an issue.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

What is it you disagree with exactly? I said I don't think we'll resign him so that's not an issue.

I completely disagree with your view to keep him for the playoffs because you value his play. I see him as a detriment to goals against and he is completely a scary player defensively that will hurt us in the playoffs more than help us. This guy is cringe worthy the way he processes the game under any kind of pressure. Physically terrible, gap control, hockey IQ is a big panic button.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I completely disagree with your view to keep him for the playoffs because you value his play. I see him as a detriment to goals against and he is completely a scary player defensively that will hurt us in the playoffs more than help us. This guy is cringe worthy the way he processes the game under any kind of pressure. Physically terrible, gap control, hockey IQ is a big panic button.

OK then, I strongly disagree. This reminds me of Gardiner who so many people hated and said similar things about. No matter how good the results were with him on the ice, people still said the same things and nobody could ever explain why if he was such a bad player, that never showed up in the numbers. I think someone posted Barrie's numbers today, not sure if it was ITT or somewhere else but yeah, ever since Keefe took over he's been pretty great so yeah, I absolutely "value his play" and I think that the very idea that we'd be a better team without him is absurd. People love to say "addition by subtraction" but it rarely works IRL.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

OK then, I strongly disagree. This reminds me of Gardiner who so many people hated and said similar things about. No matter how good the results were with him on the ice, people still said the same things and nobody could ever explain why if he was such a bad player, that never showed up in the numbers. I think someone posted Barrie's numbers today, not sure if it was ITT or somewhere else but yeah, ever since Keefe took over he's been pretty great so yeah, I absolutely "value his play" and I think that the very idea that we'd be a better team without him is absurd. People love to say "addition by subtraction" but it rarely works IRL.

The green light Keefe is on the understanding of being responsible defensively about it. He called a meeting today with the leadership group about accountability to defense. We can guess on who he’s worried about.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Haha great non answer. Youre just mad I dont think Lil is ready nor is he better than Barrie. Its obvious.

I don’t recall posting anything about Barrie?

Your comments about Liljegren not being able to make a first pass expose your ignorance on the topic. He already has one of the best first passes in the AHL.

 

[Einzakin]

I don’t recall posting anything about Barrie?

Your comments about Liljegren not being able to make a first pass expose your ignorance on the topic. He already has one of the best first passes in the AHL.

In preseason he couldnt make a first past. I could make a first f***in pass in the A jesus

 

[TheGoldenJet]

In preseason he couldnt make a first past. I could make a first ****in pass in the A jesus

Why do you keep talking about the preseason? Could it be because you haven’t seen him play yet in the actual season? Liljegren had some good preseason games and some not so good ones, but your post as usual is full of hyperbole.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The green light Keefe is on the understanding of being responsible defensively about it. He called a meeting today with the leadership group about accountability to defense. We can guess on who he’s worried about.

My guess would be that most of the players on his list are forwards. It's easy to always blame the D when we're scored on but from what I've seen lately, our forwards keep screwing up leading to odd man rushes leading to goals.

Defence is a team game and our forwards really need to do better. This especially true now with our defence decimated so I'm sure this is what Keefe will be talking about.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Why do you keep talking about the preseason? Could it be because you haven’t seen him play yet in the actual season? Liljegren had some good preseason games and some not so good ones, but your post as usual is full of hyperbole.

Maybe because he doesn't have regular season games on his resume so against NHL competition, pre-season is all we have to go by? Pre-season perhaps isn't the best indicator of what a guy can do but neither are games played in the AHL and the bottom line is that Liljegren hasn't proven squat yet in the NHL. I have high hopes for him and who knows, maybe he could step in today and do OK but until he proves it, the idea of him replacing Barrie is pretty nutso IMHO.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Maybe because he doesn't have regular season games on his resume so against NHL competition, pre-season is all we have to go by? Pre-season perhaps isn't the best indicator of what a guy can do but neither are games played in the AHL and the bottom line is that Liljegren hasn't proven squat yet in the NHL. I have high hopes for him and who knows, maybe he could step in today and do OK but until he proves it, the idea of him replacing Barrie is pretty nutso IMHO.

Preseason means nada. I’ve witnessed Malkin, Kronwall, etc play like slugs in the preseason it really means nothing when half the guys arent game ready.

Liljegren was literally partnered with an ECHLer in the preseason, makes no sense to judge him on those games.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Preseason means nada. I’ve witnessed Malkin, Kronwall, etc play like slugs in the preseason it really means nothing when half the guys aren’t trying.

Liljegren was literally partnered with an ECHLer in the preseason, makes no sense to judge him on those games.

I wouldn't go that far. Pre-season isn't regular season but it doesn't mean nothing either. You could say more or less the same about the AHL as well, it's not nothing but it's not the NHL either, not even close.

 

[Einzakin]

Preseason means nada. I’ve witnessed Malkin, Kronwall, etc play like slugs in the preseason it really means nothing when half the guys arent game ready.

Liljegren was literally partnered with an ECHLer in the preseason, makes no sense to judge him on those games.

Yeah lets compare Lilly to Malkin. Ok.

 

[DarkKnight]

Kyle voted for Muzzin.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Yeah lets compare Lilly to Malkin. Ok.

If you want to, go ahead. Would be right in line with your other posts on the topic.

 

[Einzakin]

If you want to, go ahead. Would be right in line with your other posts on the topic.

Lilly = Malkin. Got it.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Lilly = Malkin. Got it.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Both

Hyman	2.25	Matthews	11.634	Marner	10.893
Engvall	1.5	Tavares	11	Nylander	6.963
Mikheyev	1.9	Kerfoot	3.5	Kapanen	3.2
Moore	0.775	Spezza	0.9	Timashov	0.775
		Gauthier	0.8
	Rielly	5	Barrie	6.9
	Muzzin	4.9	Holl	2
	Dermott	2	Liljegren	0.864
		Sandin	0.894
		Andersen	5
		UFA	0.9
		Kessel	1.2
		Total Cap	85.748

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[BlueForever75]

Although I believe if Dubas wanted to he could keep both with how are depth is. I think it will come down to Muzzin being resigned with a different type of dman acquired either by trade or FA to replace Barrie. More of a Muzzin type for the right side. With Sandin, Lilly, Dermott and Reilly of course able to provide the offense from the back end. Re-signing Barrie would be counter productive to where this team needs to go. They need a defense first dman that can kill penalties and solidify the Reilly pairing long term.

Something tells me that Barrie, Ceci and Dermott will no longer be Leafs next year. 2 will not be resigned and Dermott will be dealt to acquire the dman we need as part of a package.

Reilly-New DMAN
Muzzin (Resigned)-Holl
Sandin-Lilly

That is my preferred D for next season.

 

[Duffman955]

Gardiner was 10x better than Barrie

 

[MyBudJT]

Both

Hyman	2.25	Matthews	11.634	Marner	10.893
Engvall	1.5	Tavares	11	Nylander	6.963
Mikheyev	1.9	Kerfoot	3.5	Kapanen	3.2
Moore	0.775	Spezza	0.9	Timashov	0.775
		Gauthier	0.8
	Rielly	5	Barrie	6.9
	Muzzin	4.9	Holl	2
	Dermott	2	Liljegren	0.864
		Sandin	0.894
		Andersen	5
		UFA	0.9
		Kessel	1.2
		Total Cap	85.748

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

LOL

In what world is Barrie worth
a) More than Muzzin
b) Anywhere near 6.9M

This is nuts!

 

[Joey Hoser]

I completely disagree with your view to keep him for the playoffs because you value his play. I see him as a detriment to goals against and he is completely a scary player defensively that will hurt us in the playoffs more than help us. This guy is cringe worthy the way he processes the game under any kind of pressure. Physically terrible, gap control, hockey IQ is a big panic button.

This is just ridiculous and over the top. You can not like things about his game or how he fits into this team, but he's been a good defenseman in the league for a decade, he isn't complete garbage like you are describing. Try to keep it real, bud.

 

[34]

Muzzin all day long.

Shanny and Dubas will not even try to keep Barrie. They know he is gone.

 

[biotk]

Both

Hyman	2.25	Matthews	11.634	Marner	10.893
Engvall	1.5	Tavares	11	Nylander	6.963
Mikheyev	1.9	Kerfoot	3.5	Kapanen	3.2
Moore	0.775	Spezza	0.9	Timashov	0.775
		Gauthier	0.8
	Rielly	5	Barrie	6.9
	Muzzin	4.9	Holl	2
	Dermott	2	Liljegren	0.864
		Sandin	0.894
		Andersen	5
		UFA	0.9
		Kessel	1.2
		Total Cap	85.748

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

If your plan is to have Sandin as the #7D you would be better off trading him.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Gardiner was 10x better than Barrie

The grass is always greener on the other side.

For example, I'll be the first one to bet money that D like Burns, Doughty, Pietrangelo would get ripped apart by our fans. They would go from franchise #1Ds to overrated #2Ds so fast . Barrie went from a great #2D to being trash and ripped apart by y'all.

See that Voracek overtime goal yesterday? Guess who he dangled and embarrassed? Pietrangelo. If that happened to a Toronto D, we'd be hearing and talking about it for the next 2 weeks lol.

 

[Duffman955]

The grass is always greener on the other side.

For example, I'll be the first one to bet money that D like Burns, Doughty, Pietrangelo would get ripped apart by our fans. They would go from franchise #1Ds to overrated #2Ds so fast . Barrie went from a great #2D to being trash and ripped apart by y'all.

See that Voracek overtime goal yesterday? Guess who he dangled and embarrassed? Pietrangelo. If that happened to a Toronto D, we'd be hearing and talking about it for the next 2 weeks lol.

Burns is a forward playing defense

Doughty and pietrangelo are infinitely better than Barrie as a defensemen.

If you even think their even in the same stratosphere, you have never played hockey.

Were talking about a player who was a throw in to improve from a 45 point center (kerfoot) to a 50-60 point center (kadri)

That's how the avs evaluated him