Proposal: MTL - NSH

[Galaxydoggystyle]

Just speculating but if Weber is inching closer and closer to retirement do you guys think NSH should trade for Weber sooner rather then later? and if so what would the offer be? I am not looking for answers like "The league would never let the recapture penalty go through" as of right now they are on the hook for a massive penalty until the league actually does something.

So what do you think the deal would be if NSH wanted Weber back to avoid that recapture penalty?

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[Techcoockie]

2020 first

 

[Habs Halifax]

Just speculating but if Weber is inching closer and closer to retirement do you guys think NSH should trade for Weber sooner rather then later? and if so what would the offer be? I am not looking for answers like "The league would never let the recapture penalty go through" as of right now they are on the hook for a massive penalty until the league actually does something.

So what do you think the deal would be if NSH wanted Weber back to avoid that recapture penalty?

- If the Habs trade Weber this summer, we would be on the hook for $4.57M of recapture ourselves (potentially)
- Weber on the Preds roster for the next 3 seasons only offsets their $24M of recapture penalty by $8.57M.
- Does Weber play those last 3 years at $1M from 38-40? Doubt that.

Can the Preds and Weber fake an injury so he goes on LTIR for the last 3 years? That's tricky

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Just speculating but if Weber is inching closer and closer to retirement do you guys think NSH should trade for Weber sooner rather then later? and if so what would the offer be? I am not looking for answers like "The league would never let the recapture penalty go through" as of right now they are on the hook for a massive penalty until the league actually does something.

So what do you think the deal would be if NSH wanted Weber back to avoid that recapture penalty?

You can't premise the trade on "... to avoid that recapture penalty" without accepting "the league would never let the recapture penalty go through" discussion. Because nobody in Nashville is the least bit worried about that penalty, and nobody is going to trade for Weber with that premise as part of the motivation.

Now that said, we do have a gaping hole on RD after Subban imploded, and we do lack size, physicality, and leadership. And also have sentimental appreciation for Weber. So forget the whole recapture thing, there would be some level of interest in getting Weber back just on his merits as a hockey player.

I'm just not sure what price we could realistically afford to pay for him, given our down year (high draft pick) and shallow prospect pool. It probably wouldn't be the best return you could get if you wanted to trade him. We're "asset poor" in terms of being able to be Buyers on a veteran player in any trade.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

2020 first

No thanks. Preds could be picking just inside the top-10 this year. The team can't trade that pick away.

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

No thanks. Preds could be picking just inside the top-10 this year. The team can't trade that pick away.

I haven't kept up with the preds but are they in win now mode or are they rebuilding/retooling?

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

- If the Habs trade Weber this summer, we would be on the hook for $4.57M of recapture ourselves (potentially)
- Weber on the Preds roster for the next 3 seasons only offsets their $24M of recapture penalty by $8.57M.
- Does Weber play those last 3 years at $1M from 38-40? Doubt that.

Can the Preds and Weber fake an injury so he goes on LTIR for the last 3 years? That's tricky

So I am not too advanced in the rules of this recapture penalty. So are you saying if we trade Weber to the preds we are on the hook for 4.5m? and if he is playing for the preds and still retires the preds are STILL on the hook with the recapture penalty?

 

[preds1]

Seems he's had a great year, arguably a Norris realm pace. I realize he's injured now, but don't think he's close to retirement.

 

[Soundgarden]

I doubt the recapture penalty will happen, mainly because the contract was signed before the CBA that made those types of deals illegal was even signed.

I'd love Weber back in a veteran leadership role. Would I pay anything close to top dollar? Hell no.

 

[herzausstein]

So I am not too advanced in the rules of this recapture penalty. So are you saying if we trade Weber to the preds we are on the hook for 4.5m? and if he is playing for the preds and still retires the preds are STILL on the hook with the recapture penalty?

The difference between his caphit and what he actually got paid that season is accrued for every year he’s on the team. His payout dropped below his caphit last season. Nashville accrued $24,571,428 of cap benefit. At the end of this season, Montreal will have accrued $4,571,428 of benefit. If Montreal trades him in the offseason and Weber retires early, they will get hit with a caphit equal to that benefit divided by the number of years left on contract. So their max caphit would be 4.57 mil x 1 year. Nashville will get hit by their benefit divided by time left on contract at time of retirement. If Nashville traded for him in the offseason and he retired 3 years early they’d still end up with a 5.33 mil x 3 years. That’s better then the 8.19 mil x 3 years it would be now.

 

[Boondock]

I doubt the recapture penalty will happen, mainly because the contract was signed before the CBA that made those types of deals illegal was even signed.

I'd love Weber back in a veteran leadership role. Would I pay anything close to top dollar? Hell no.

Canucks and Luongo say hi.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So I am not too advanced in the rules of this recapture penalty. So are you saying if we trade Weber to the preds we are on the hook for 4.5m? and if he is playing for the preds and still retires the preds are STILL on the hook with the recapture penalty?

Add the actual salary and subtract the cap hit while that player played for any team.

- Difference totals up to $24.57M for the Preds (12/13 - 15/16)
- Difference totals up to $4.57M for the Habs so far (16/17 - 19/20)
* Habs are clear of recapture sometime early in the 22/23 season. The $4.57M recapture penalty the Habs have gets reduced by $1.85M per season for the next two years.

The recapture penalty gets divided into how many seasons they retire early. So if he retires after his age 37 season where his salary drops from $3M to $1M, that would be $8.19M of cap hit for 3 years for the Preds.

Canucks are already paying for Luongo in terms of cap recapture. $3.033M for 3 seasons. Those who think the NHL will let the Preds off he hook need to think again.

 

[BLNY]

Bit misleading to call this speculation as we inch toward the TDL. Successful click bait.

IMO, it's a foregone conclusion that Shea will end his career with the Preds. They'll create enough room to take him, or pay even more to get Montreal to take a contract back. At that point, they'll Pronger him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Canucks and Luongo say hi.

Exactly. Those fans who think the NHL will let the Preds off the hook, need to think again. Canucks taking a $3.033M cap hit for 3 seasons will have something to say about that

 

[Habs Halifax]

Bit misleading to call this speculation as we inch toward the TDL. Successful click bait.

IMO, it's a foregone conclusion that Shea will end his career with the Preds. They'll create enough room to take him, or pay even more to get Montreal to take a contract back. At that point, they'll Pronger him.

Why would Weber do them a favor by faking an injury when they traded him? Why didn't Luongo get traded to the Canucks? Faking an injury is risky business. Insurance company will demand investigation.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Doubt the Preds are worried about the cap recapture penalty. When Weber is 38-40, they are likely in rebuild years and the $8M cap hit won't hurt them much. Until then, they will try to win with the core they have by adding pieces for the 3 year span.

 

[justafan22]

Exactly. Those fans who think the NHL will let the Preds off the hook, need to think again. Canucks taking a $3.033M cap hit for 3 seasons will have something to say about that

They aren't letting a 24 million cap hit on the books for the precedent it would set.

I'll guess something in the 5 million cap hit range

 

[Habs Halifax]

They aren't letting a 24 million cap hit on the books for the precedent it would set.

I'll guess something in the 5 million cap hit range

Maybe, (big maybe), they reduce it to some degree cause the Flyers are the guilty ones that forced their hand.

If you take the 14 year term and reduce that to 11 (subtract the last 3 years), the cap recapture penalty goes down to a total of $16M. If Weber retires before his age 38 season, that would be $5.33M for 3 years for the Preds. Maybe something like that is worked out

 

[bobholly39]

Why would Weber do them a favor by faking an injury when they traded him? Why didn't Luongo get traded to the Canucks? Faking an injury is risky business. Insurance company will demand investigation.

I think Weber still feels loyalty to Nashville. He certainly wont want to "screw them over" by retiring early.

Not sure he's the type to fake an injury, but he might simply keep on playing instead of retiring

 

[justafan22]

Maybe, (big maybe), they reduce it to some degree cause the Flyers are the guilty ones that forced their hand.

If you take the 14 year term and reduce that to 11 (subtract the last 3 years), the cap recapture penalty goes down to a total of $16M. If Weber retires before his age 38 season, that would be $5.33M for 3 years for the Preds. Maybe something like that is worked out

That feels right.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think Weber still feels loyalty to Nashville. He certainly wont want to "screw them over" by retiring early.

Not sure he's the type to fake an injury, but he might simply keep on playing instead of retiring

I doubt Weber feels loyal to the Preds at this stage. And him faking an injury to get $3M for 3 years is too risky in terms of getting caught IMO. Luongo didn't do it for the Canucks so why would Weber do that for the Preds? Possible but doubt it. However, if they re-acquire him, maybe the relationship is better and they work something out in terms of an injury

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Exactly. Those fans who think the NHL will let the Preds off the hook, need to think again. Canucks taking a $3.033M cap hit for 3 seasons will have something to say about that

The thing that supposedly seems so dramatic about Weber though is the magnitude in the later year retirement scenarios. A $24M recapture is bigger than the whole NHL salary cap range. The NHL won't force that magnitude of recapture on the Preds, that is 100% certain.

Now, when you get to the lower earlier retirement levels, like Luongo, sure, no need to let us off the hook for a paltry $3M or $4M. But Weber isn't going to retire that soon anyway. And then there are the whole already-well-documented circumstances surrounding that contract - it is unique from every other cap-circumventing contract ever signed in that Nashville didn't design it, didn't want it, had no intentions of creating a contract structure to circumvent the cap. It was a poison pill we were forced to swallow. It has been hashed out ad nauseum here already, folks can dig up the threads from before if they care.

Bottom line, other fans can keep worrying about it on our behalf if you really like. We're not worried. And there's zero value to us in trading for Weber with that issue as any part of the motivation.

 

[bobholly39]

I doubt Weber feels loyal to the Preds at this stage. And him faking an injury to get $3M for 3 years is too risky in terms of getting caught IMO. Luongo didn't do it for the Canucks so why would Weber do that for the Preds? Possible but doubt it. However, if they re-acquire him, maybe the relationship is better and they work something out in terms of an injury

Of course he feels some loyalty

Its the organization he started his career on and became a star with, and they always treated hom well. He didnt leave on bad terms or anything. Im sure he's not out to screw them over.

Hes also 34 this year and you could argue he was a top 3-5 D for most of the season. Defensemen like him tend to age quite well. I dont see why he would retire early if he still plays at a strong level. Good chance he'd play till 40, maybe even slightly past that

 

[Soundgarden]

The thing that supposedly seems so dramatic about Weber though is the magnitude in the later year retirement scenarios. A $24M recapture is bigger than the whole NHL salary cap range. The NHL won't force that magnitude of recapture on the Preds, that is 100% certain.

Now, when you get to the lower earlier retirement levels, like Luongo, sure, no need to let us off the hook for a paltry $3M or $4M. But Weber isn't going to retire that soon anyway. And then there are the whole already-well-documented circumstances surrounding that contract - it is unique from every other cap-circumventing contract ever signed in that Nashville didn't design it, didn't want it, had no intentions of creating a contract structure to circumvent the cap. It was a poison pill we were forced to swallow. It has been hashed out ad nauseum here already, folks can dig up the threads from before if they care.

Bottom line, other fans can keep worrying about it on our behalf if you really like. We're not worried. And there's zero value to us in trading for Weber with that issue as any part of the motivation.

Amen.

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

Bit misleading to call this speculation as we inch toward the TDL. Successful click bait.

IMO, it's a foregone conclusion that Shea will end his career with the Preds. They'll create enough room to take him, or pay even more to get Montreal to take a contract back. At that point, they'll Pronger him.

Question is what would that trade be? what would be acceptable for the habs to trade him back to the preds?