Proposal: MTL - NSH

[ole ole]

Bit misleading to call this speculation as we inch toward the TDL. Successful click bait.

IMO, it's a foregone conclusion that Shea will end his career with the Preds. They'll create enough room to take him, or pay even more to get Montreal to take a contract back. At that point, they'll Pronger him.

Exactly.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I dont know how to have a conversation with someone who thinks they can make up the rules of the CBA. But sure bud. They will enforce it for the Canucks but not the Preds, absolutely, that's they way it will most likely go down. Good luck with that.

I don't know how to have a conversation with someone that can't grasp the concept that the CBA and the enforcement of its rules can be altered. If they couldn't we wouldn't be having this conversation since the Weber contract would still be legal. Like I said if he retires in the next few years when we'd receive a Canucks like penalty (say this year or next) it will probably be enforced. If he retires in 2025 you're crazy if you think the league is going to force us to play $24 million under the cap. I guess we'll see what happens in the next 1-6 years.

 

[Soundgarden]

FACT. There is a recapture penalty in place and Nash is on the hook for it.
Nashville fans /Hoping the league would never let the recapture penalty go through.
So as of now, the recapture is a reality and common sense tells us that Nash would offer up something good to eliminate that recapture penalty.

Lol, nah. I'd offer a conditional 7th or future considerations. No more, no less.

 

[ole ole]

Doubt the Preds are worried about the cap recapture penalty. When Weber is 38-40, they are likely in rebuild years and the $8M cap hit won't hurt them much. Until then, they will try to win with the core they have by adding pieces for the 3 year span.

It's more than just a 8 mil cap hit.If the NHL doesn't get involve at all the last 2 seasons are killers for Nash.
A 12 and than a 24 mil cap hit.

If Weber retires before: Penalty per year – NSH Penalty per year – MTL
2019-20 $3.51MM $918K
2020-21 $4.1MM $762K
2021-22 $4.91MM $543K
2022-23 $6.14MM $215K
2023-24 $8.19MM None
2024-25 $12.29MM None
2025-26 $24.57MM None

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's more than just a 8 mil cap hit.If the NHL doesn't get involve at all the last 2 seasons are killers for Nash.
A 12 and than a 24 mil cap hit.

If Weber retires before: Penalty per year – NSH Penalty per year – MTL
2019-20 $3.51MM $918K
2020-21 $4.1MM $762K
2021-22 $4.91MM $543K
2022-23 $6.14MM $215K
2023-24 $8.19MM None
2024-25 $12.29MM None
2025-26 $24.57MM None

probability says he retires after his age 37 season or sooner. That’s $8M per year for 3 years. Maybe they reduce that to some degree

 

[ole ole]

Lol, nah. I'd offer a conditional 7th or future considerations. No more, no less.

You'll pay the price one way or another. Something very good to the Habs or a good part of your cap tied up.

 

[ole ole]

probability says he retires after his age 37 season or sooner. That’s $8M per year for 3 years. Maybe they reduce that to some degree

How did you get 8 mil per yr for the last 3 seasons?Just some number pulled out of your head.
If the league didn't intervene the actual numbers would be yr 3 8 mil, yr 2 12 mil and the last yr 24 mil.
Do i believe that the league will intervene....yes but i think they only chop those numbers in half.
That still leaves a 4 mil,6 mil and 12 mil cap hit.
Nash will be willing partners to give up what is necessary to avoid that.

 

[Soundgarden]

You'll pay the price one way or another. Something very good to the Habs or a good part of your cap tied up.

Eh, I doubt it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

How did you get 8 mil per yr for the last 3 seasons?Just some number pulled out of your head.

You listed the $8m even in your post lol

 

[TS Quint]

I don't know how to have a conversation with someone that can't grasp the concept that the CBA and the enforcement of its rules can be altered. If they couldn't we wouldn't be having this conversation since the Weber contract would still be legal. Like I said if he retires in the next few years when we'd receive a Canucks like penalty (say this year or next) it will probably be enforced. If he retires in 2025 you're crazy if you think the league is going to force us to play $24 million under the cap. I guess we'll see what happens in the next 1-6 years.

You're ridiculous.

 

[Predsanddead24]

You're ridiculous.

 

[ole ole]

You listed the $8m even in your post lol

Trouble reading?
That's for yr 23/24
Yr 24/25 is 12 mil
yr 25-26 is 24 mil
LOL


If Weber retires before: Penalty per year – NSH Penalty per year – MTL
2019-20 $3.51MM $918K
2020-21 $4.1MM $762K
2021-22 $4.91MM $543K
2022-23 $6.14MM $215K
2023-24 $8.19MM None
2024-25 $12.29MM None
2025-26 $24.57MM None

 

[Captain Mountain]

What a shocking development Can Rogers just swallow the bullet and sell a portion of the rights to TSN? Even without the main deal and just regional games their production is 1000% better.

I thought Kypreos didn't work for Sportsnet anymore?

 

[Captain Mountain]

You're right that as written at this moment we would have to pay the recapture penalty, but the league can essentially do whatever it wants with these rules which you're really failing to grasp. There is literally precedent for the league changing it's rules in these sorts of cases with Kovalchuk. I think it's likely we have to deal with it if Weber retires in the next year or two, but you're out of your mind if you think the league would hit us with a $24 million cap charge over a single season. Whether it gets fully wiped, spread out over several years, or we pay some alternate penalty who knows, but there is no way the league is going to force us to ice a team that would be below the cap floor. The league and its owners are in the business of making money and completely decimating a team because of some cap indiscretions (of which we didn't even actually benefit) a decade prior makes zero sense.

I don't doubt that the NHL wants to avoid a situation where Nashville has a ludicrous cap recapture scenario, but its worth noting that:

1) The NHL didn't change its rules, it modified a punishment levied (a lot more leeway);
2) A significant reason they did so is because Kovalchuk retired from the NHL; and
3) New Jersey still got dinged with cap recapture when Kovalchuk retired from the NHL.

Hell, according the Capfriendly, NJ STILL has the cap recapture penalty for Kovalchuk's retirement (and will continue to carry it until 2025), even though he's been back in the NHL for almost two seasons.

And its pretty unlikely that Weber would retire with only one season left on his contract, if he retires early, it would likely be in the 3 years left window.

 

[Tempo]

Trouble reading?
That's for yr 23/24
Yr 24/25 is 12 mil
yr 25-26 is 24 mil
LOL


If Weber retires before: Penalty per year – NSH Penalty per year – MTL
2019-20 $3.51MM $918K
2020-21 $4.1MM $762K
2021-22 $4.91MM $543K
2022-23 $6.14MM $215K
2023-24 $8.19MM None
2024-25 $12.29MM None
2025-26 $24.57MM None

Math is hard...

 

[Predsanddead24]

I don't doubt that the NHL wants to avoid a situation where Nashville has a ludicrous cap recapture scenario, but its worth noting that:

1) The NHL didn't change its rules, it modified a punishment levied by an arbiter;
2) A significant reason they did so is because Kovalchuk retired from the NHL; and
3) New Jersey still got dinged with cap recapture when Kovalchuk retired from the NHL.

Hell, according the Capfriendly, NJ STILL has the cap recapture penalty for Kovalchuk's retirement (and will continue to carry it until 2025), even though he's been back in the NHL for almost two seasons.

And its pretty unlikely that Weber would retire with only one season left on his contract, if he retires early, it would likely be in the 3 years left window.

Obviously its a different situation, but what it does show is that the NHL is willing to alter or selectively enforce punishments as outlined in the CBA. I'm not saying we won't face the punishment or some alteration of it, but the argument that the rule as written will definitely be enforced as written doesn't hold any water based on how the league has operated previously. There's also the fact that there will be a new CBA where an issue like this gets addressed before it is even likely to come to fruition.

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

Obviously its a different situation, but what it does show is that the NHL is willing to alter or selectively enforce punishments as outlined in the CBA. I'm not saying we won't face the punishment or some alteration of it, but the argument that the rule as written will definitely be enforced as written doesn't hold any water based on how the league has operated previously. There's also the fact that there will be a new CBA where an issue like this gets addressed before it is even likely to come to fruition.

Are you sure? it seems like you and other pred fans seem to be wishing and hoping something happens to change your penalty if it does happen. Loungo and Kovalchuk both came with recapture penalties how would it look for those teams right now serving there penalties having that penalty and you guys for some reason get a less severe penalty or no penalty at all? those two teams would be so pissed and also you have to think any CBA changes the owners have a say also so if two owners are totally against it I don't think the CBA would do you guys any good this also doesn't include the habs being against it because the preds are trying to basically snake there way out of a rule regardless of how big or small it is.

and by snake there way out of it I mean these proposals of the preds giving the habs a 7th pick and placing weber on LTIR.

 

[Tempo]

Are you sure? it seems like you and other pred fans seem to be wishing and hoping something happens to change your penalty if it does happen. Loungo and Kovalchuk both came with recapture penalties how would it look for those teams right now serving there penalties having that penalty and you guys for some reason get a less severe penalty or no penalty at all? those two teams would be so pissed and also you have to think any CBA changes the owners have a say also so if two owners are totally against it I don't think the CBA would do you guys any good this also doesn't include the habs being against it because the preds are trying to basically snake there way out of a rule regardless of how big or small it is.

and by snake there way out of it I mean these proposals of the preds giving the habs a 7th pick and placing weber on LTIR.

Fairness is not the league’s motto, revenue is.

The league will not allow the recapture to destroy the team. Either there will be a rework on the recapture, or they will turn a blind eye on a LTIR.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

There's a lot of wacky speculation whenever this exact topic comes up. Assuming Weber does not play out his contract and the NHL honors the recapture rule in full, there are only 3 scenarios that would realistically play out:

1-Nashville trades for Weber in the next few seasons for market value
2-Weber goes on LTIR for Montreal (or elsewhere if traded as part of a "hockey trade")
3-Weber retires and Nashville gets hit with the appropriate recapture penalty

Scenario 1 is the only one in which Montreal is going to get assets from the Preds. They pay the hefty price in players/prospects/picks and take advantage of the negative cap advantage years to reduce the potential recapture penalty. There is no scenario where Weber will retire as a Canadien but will magically go on LTIR if traded to the Preds. If he is sufficiently injured to go on LTIR, the Habs are not going to force Weber to retire instead (and his LTIR could probably be traded to a team that needs to get to the cap floor). There is no scenario where Weber will retire as a Canadien but will suddenly not retire if he gets traded to the Preds. Wishful scenarios where the Preds give up a prime prospect or lottery 1st round pick to then LTIR Weber are just that.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I don't doubt that the NHL wants to avoid a situation where Nashville has a ludicrous cap recapture scenario, but its worth noting that:

1) The NHL didn't change its rules, it modified a punishment levied (a lot more leeway);
2) A significant reason they did so is because Kovalchuk retired from the NHL; and
3) New Jersey still got dinged with cap recapture when Kovalchuk retired from the NHL.

Hell, according the Capfriendly, NJ STILL has the cap recapture penalty for Kovalchuk's retirement (and will continue to carry it until 2025), even though he's been back in the NHL for almost two seasons.

And its pretty unlikely that Weber would retire with only one season left on his contract, if he retires early, it would likely be in the 3 years left window.

Wasn't part of the issue with Jersey not only that the Kovalchuk contract was an egregious example of this, but that the league also rejected the initial contract and the Devils doubled-down on it by making minimal changes to the deal? Vancouver is the precedent I'm more concerned with as a Preds fan.

 

[herzausstein]

The Preds fans in here are on another plane of reality that I will never be able to attain.

Here on planet earth, here is the what happens if Weber retires as non-Nashville Predator

View attachment 319859

Makes more sense for the Preds to trade for him at this point...and the Habs have all the leverage

That’ll just be when it’s time to rebuild.

 

[preds1]

Whole lotta pissing contests over an unfortunate ankle sprain. Sorry you lost your 1D who’s had a very good year until now. Not sure how many 1st rounders MTL was expecting in this thread.

 

[ole ole]

Whole lotta pissing contests over an unfortunate ankle sprain. Sorry you lost your 1D who’s had a very good year until now. Not sure how many 1st rounders MTL was expecting in this thread.

Didn't know the thread had anything to do with an ankle sprain. Guess we must be reading different threads?

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

Whole lotta pissing contests over an unfortunate ankle sprain. Sorry you lost your 1D who’s had a very good year until now. Not sure how many 1st rounders MTL was expecting in this thread.

This thread was actually to gauge what the return would be for Weber to the preds then right from the start people started talking about the recapture penalty and went way off topic.

 

[Captain Mountain]

This thread was actually to gauge what the return would be for Weber to the preds then right from the start people started talking about the recapture penalty and went way off topic.

It is impossible to separate the two because what the actual threat of cap recapture is probably the single greatest factor as to what the cost would be.