Proposal: MTL - EDM

[The Great Weal]

I wouldn’t trade Jones for a first round pick below 20 in this draft, I’m not sure how it’s brutal for you.

8th>Drouin
Jones<15th

Drouin’s salary and term after how he finished this year is a huge risk.

How is it a huge risk? He's been producing top 6 numbers every year in the NHL. It's not going to suddenly go away after 30ish bad games. He is a very flawed player, but his ability to produce 45+ points isn't going to vanish...

No team is giving up a 1st for Jones.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Jones is not better than Mete at all! Mete is younger than Jones and he plays in the NHL. Yeah, he might not score a lot of points, but he plays against the top line and in the penalty kill and he still manages to finish +17!

Ooooh plus minus and the fact that he exists, great selling points. Edmonton’s trying this thing called developing properly for a change.

Mete played 17 minutes a night, he’s not playing top competition at all with that usage.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

How is it a huge risk? He's been producing top 6 numbers every year in the NHL. It's not going to suddenly go away after 30ish bad games. He is a very flawed player, but his ability to produce 45+ points isn't going to vanish...

No team is giving up a 1st for Jones.

It’s going to vanish if he can’t be trusted to play a modicum of defensive hockey. Lots of guys can put up 45 points if they don’t have to be responsible anywhere else.

Jones is not moving even if it was offered. Like I said there’s zero point for Edmonton to move an NHL ready defensive prospect for a draft pick. He’s the lynchpin of the best defence in the AHL.

 

[The Great Weal]

It’s going to vanish if he can’t be trusted to play a modicum of defensive hockey. Lots of guys can put up 45 points if they don’t have to be responsible anywhere else.

Jones is not moving even if it was offered. Like I said there’s zero point for Edmonton to move an NHL ready defensive prospect for a draft pick. He’s the lynchpin of the best defence in the AHL.

Which wasn't an issue for the majority of the season, and it's 45+ points, not just 45 points. I can't stand Drouin, but he's obviously better than his last 30ish games in the season. I'm not saying he's worth the 8th overall, but he is worth FAR more than Jones and a 7 spot difference.

 

[780il]

Jones is not better than Mete at all! Mete is younger than Jones and he plays in the NHL. Yeah, he might not score a lot of points, but he plays against the top line and in the penalty kill and he still manages to finish +17!

If Mete is so good then why are you looking for a top pair LHD?


The guy plays 17 minutes a night. Thats bottom pair minutes, give it a break.

 

[The Great Weal]

If Mete is so good then why are you looking for a top pair LHD?


The guy plays 17 minutes a night. Thats bottom pair minutes, give it a break.

So how does any of this have to do with Jones being better? Mete is also a year younger than Jones.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Which wasn't an issue for the majority of the season, and it's 45+ points, not just 45 points. I can't stand Drouin, but he's obviously better than his last 30ish games in the season. I'm not saying he's worth the 8th overall, but he is worth FAR more than Jones and a 7 spot difference.

Drouin hasn’t improved his numbers in three seasons, it’s getting a little late to be selling the ‘+’ factor to him.

I can’t stand guys that won’t work hard and disappear when the going gets tough. I loved Eberle but it was time for him to go when he got traded and the return sucked. I don’t know that you’re quite at that point with him yet but no one is moving an expansion exempt top pick for him.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

So how does any of this have to do with Jones being better? Mete is also a year younger than Jones.

Jones was better in Junior and he’s been at least as good as a pro so far.

You guys rushed Mete. He’s not ready for the role you’re trying to get him to play.

 

[CWP]

If Mete is so good then why are you looking for a top pair LHD?


The guy plays 17 minutes a night. Thats bottom pair minutes, give it a break.

Montreal is looking for a LHD because they lack LHD! It has nothing to do with Mete. I mean this forum is about trading Drouin to Edmonton. Does that mean that Draisaitl is bad, because Edmonton is looking for a winger? NOT AT ALL! But personally, I don’t believe that the LHD that Montreal gets will play with Weber, but with Petry.
Regarding its playing time, it is because in the first half of the season, he plays in the third pair, but on the second half, he played approximately 20 minutes per game.

 

[The Great Weal]

Drouin hasn’t improved his numbers in three seasons, it’s getting a little late to be selling the ‘+’ factor to him.

I can’t stand guys that won’t work hard and disappear when the going gets tough. I loved Eberle but it was time for him to go when he got traded and the return sucked. I don’t know that you’re quite at that point with him yet but no one is moving an expansion exempt top pick for him.

He had 46 points in 55 games before he fell off a cliff. I don't think you should be scared about his points producing ability to vanish after a terrible 27 games. I literally said that I don't think he's worth the 8th overall pick, but he is still MUCH better than Jones and a 7 spot difference.

 

[The Great Weal]

Jones was better in Junior and he’s been at least as good as a pro so far.

You guys rushed Mete. He’s not ready for the role you’re trying to get him to play.

Who cares about what he did in junior when we are comparing them right now? Mete has been better in the NHL and he is a year younger. What argument do you have that shows that Jones is a better NHLer than Mete right now?

 

[HOPE]

Ooooh plus minus and the fact that he exists, great selling points. Edmonton’s trying this thing called developing properly for a change.

Mete played 17 minutes a night, he’s not playing top competition at all with that usage.

Mete is indeed playing top competition at 5v5 he just doesn't play special unities.

 

[CWP]

Ooooh plus minus and the fact that he exists, great selling points. Edmonton’s trying this thing called developing properly for a change.

Mete played 17 minutes a night, he’s not playing top competition at all with that usage.

You can say that he is not developing properly, but the fact is that METE CAN PLAY IN THE NHL So I don’t understand why you would use the argument that we rushed him into the NHL and Edmonton develops Jones properly, because I guarantee you that if Jones was as good as Mete, he would play in the NHL. And as I have said previously, Mete played approximately 20-21 minutes in the second half of the season with Weber and he is not on the powerplay. Furthermore, your argument for the World Junior is pointless, because you are talking about 6 games, which is a way too small sample to determine that Jones is better than Mete. And by the way, Mete played 120 games in the NHL while Jones played 17 games...

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Who cares about what he did in junior when we are comparing them right now? Mete has been better in the NHL and he is a year younger. What argument do you have that shows that Jones is a better NHLer than Mete right now?

Please. The only reason Mete is even in the NHL is because your LHD sucks. When Jones was up he was actually making a difference and playing 20 minutes a night, and usually with a partner like Russell, Gravel, or Benning.

Jones was putting up very strong relative numbers on a poor team, Mete was putting up bad relative numbers on a good team. Jones is better today and would be in the NHL over Mete if he was in your organization.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

You can say that he is not developing properly, but the fact is that METE CAN PLAY IN THE NHL So I don’t understand why you would use the argument that we rushed him into the NHL and Edmonton develops Jones properly, because I guarantee you that if Jones was as good as Mete, he would play in the NHL. And as I have said previously, Mete played approximately 20-21 minutes in the second half of the season with Weber and he is not on the powerplay. Furthermore, your argument for the World Junior is pointless, because you are talking about 6 games, which is a way too small sample to determine that Jones is better than Mete. And by the way, Mete played 120 games in the NHL while Jones played 17 games...

I never said anything about the World Juniors, crazy person.

You seem to think the fact that your LHD depth being brutal forcing such a young player in the NHL when he should be in the AHL is a good thing. It’s not. “Games played” is a soft argument. Kailer Yamamoto played many more games than Poehling, is he a better prospect? No. He’s just forced into a role he shouldn’t be in.

If Mete was killing it then you might have an argument but his relative numbers aren’t good and he’s providing zero offense. From my viewings he’s falling into the trap that many young players fall into when they’re in over their heads - take no chances, stifle offense, try to make the safe defensive play all the time so he doesn’t get benched or sent down. I don’t think it’s the right way to handle a young player.

None of this has anything to do with Drouin, who still isn’t worth 8th overall.

 

[The Great Weal]

Please. The only reason Mete is even in the NHL is because your LHD sucks. When Jones was up he was actually making a difference and playing 20 minutes a night, and usually with a partner like Russell, Gravel, or Benning.

Jones was putting up very strong relative numbers on a poor team, Mete was putting up bad relative numbers on a good team. Jones is better today and would be in the NHL over Mete if he was in your organization.

Ok so next time just say "I have not watched Mete and I just want to believe that my player is better". I am probably Mete's biggest critic on the Habs board, but he is 100% an NHLer. The fact that you don't think so is laughable.

 

[CWP]

Please. The only reason Mete is even in the NHL is because your LHD sucks. When Jones was up he was actually making a difference and playing 20 minutes a night, and usually with a partner like Russell, Gravel, or Benning.

Jones was putting up very strong relative numbers on a poor team, Mete was putting up bad relative numbers on a good team. Jones is better today and would be in the NHL over Mete if he was in your organization.

You are , our LHD sucks! But the point is Mete did not only show that he can play in the NHL, he shows that he could play against the top line! Maybe, Jones had better relative number, but I say two things. First, as you said Jones is playing with guys like Russel and Benning, so I am pretty sure that he wasn’t playing against the top line! Also, I think that you agree with me when I said that Montreal first line of Tatar-Danault-Gallagher is probably one of the worst first line in the NHL. I mean you guys have McDavid and Draisaitl, it’s light-year better than what Montreal have! So maybe, Mete puts up bad relative numbers in comparison of its teammates, but look at the competition he faces with the group that he plays with. Also, you have to consider that Mete starts around 70% of its shifts in the defensive zone. Compare him with other players with those stats and you’ll realize that he is putting very good relative number!

 

[CWP]

You are , our LHD sucks! But the point is Mete did not only show that he can play in the NHL, he shows that he could play against the top line! Maybe, Jones had better relative number, but I say two things. First, as you said Jones is playing with guys like Russel and Benning, so I am pretty sure that he wasn’t playing against the top line! Also, I think that you agree with me when I said that Montreal first line of Tatar-Danault-Gallagher is probably one of the worst first line in the NHL. I mean you guys have McDavid and Draisaitl, it’s light-year better than what Montreal have! So maybe, Mete puts up bad relative numbers in comparison of its teammates, but look at the competition he faces with the group that he plays with. Also, you have to consider that Mete starts around 70% of its shifts in the defensive zone. Compare him with other players with those stats and you’ll realize that he is putting very good relative number!

I meant to say: you are right (at the beginning)

 

[The Great Weal]

I don't even see how bringing up Mete is relevant. If he sucks so much, why hasn't Jones shown that he can perform better than him? And even if he does perform marginally better than him, it still doesn't mean that the difference between him and Drouin is 7 spots in the draft.

 

[CWP]

I never said anything about the World Juniors, crazy person.

You seem to think the fact that your LHD depth being brutal forcing such a young player in the NHL when he should be in the AHL is a good thing. It’s not. “Games played” is a soft argument. Kailer Yamamoto played many more games than Poehling, is he a better prospect? No. He’s just forced into a role he shouldn’t be in.

If Mete was killing it then you might have an argument but his relative numbers aren’t good and he’s providing zero offense. From my viewings he’s falling into the trap that many young players fall into when they’re in over their heads - take no chances, stifle offense, try to make the safe defensive play all the time so he doesn’t get benched or sent down. I don’t think it’s the right way to handle a young player.

None of this has anything to do with Drouin, who still isn’t worth 8th overall.

Ok first, I am sorry about the World Junior argument. I mistook you for someone else! I have to agree with you that Mete was put in the NHL too early (last season), but my point is that Mete shows that he can play in the NHL and can compete consistently. I believe that he has been very unlucky offensively in that I have never seen someone miss that much open-net or hit that many posts, it’s a curse! Maybe, Jones could end up being the better player, time will tell us. However, he certainly isn’t now. Also, I believe that you undervalue Yamamoto, because, in my opinion, he will become a very good player and I sincerely believe that he is a better prospect and better player than Poehling as of today!
Lastly, there is no reason to call me crazy. Yeah, I might have been a little agressive and that’s my bad! But, I came here to discuss with you about the sport that we all love, so I don’t believe that I deserve your insult!

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I meant to say: you are right (at the beginning)

His zonestarts were about 49/51 Offensive/Defensive split. Pretty even. And contrary to popular belief I do watch and like the Habs.

I think he’s a very good prospect, don’t get me wrong, but I’ve seen the Oilers ruin enough good prospects to recognize the signs. He’s doing alright, but I think he’s capable of much more than alright if allowed to develop properly. He should be playing #1 minutes and all situations in the AHL.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Ok first, I am sorry about the World Junior argument. I mistook you for someone else! I have to agree with you that Mete was put in the NHL too early (last season), but my point is that Mete shows that he can play in the NHL and can compete consistently. I believe that he has been very unlucky offensively in that I have never seen someone miss that much open-net or hit that many posts, it’s a curse! Maybe, Jones could end up being the better player, time will tell us. However, he certainly isn’t now. Also, I believe that you undervalue Yamamoto, because, in my opinion, he will become a very good player and I sincerely believe that he is a better prospect and better player than Poehling as of today!
Lastly, there is no reason to call me crazy. Yeah, I might have been a little agressive and that’s my bad! But, I came here to discuss with you about the sport that we all love, so I don’t believe that I deserve your insult!

Yamamoto has the capability of being great. And he didn’t look bad when he was up here, but - like lots of young guys - he was scared to take chances and tried to play it too safe. Young offensively minded guys need to be able to strut their stuff, so to speak.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I don't even see how bringing up Mete is relevant. If he sucks so much, why hasn't Jones shown that he can perform better than him? And even if he does perform marginally better than him, it still doesn't mean that the difference between him and Drouin is 7 spots in the draft.

Jones was excellent when he was up here. When he was up when Klefbom was hurt the only guy playing better was Nurse. The problem is he’s blocked by all of our LHD. Klefbom and Nurse are very good and Russell and Sekera are very expensive. Can’t play him on the right side, we already have to play one lefty there. He’s stuck from a full time spot until we move one.

 

[CWP]

His zonestarts were about 49/51 Offensive/Defensive split. Pretty even. And contrary to popular belief I do watch and like the Habs.

I think he’s a very good prospect, don’t get me wrong, but I’ve seen the Oilers ruin enough good prospects to recognize the signs. He’s doing alright, but I think he’s capable of much more than alright if allowed to develop properly. He should be playing #1 minutes and all situations in the AHL.

Oh that's my bad about Mete's defensive starts! I just look at its stat and realize that I was wrong. I think your point is fair, but in my opinion, I think that the biggest problem is that he is not well-utilized by Julien. As an example, he is not in the power play (Julien puts Reilly over him, which I believe is a complete disgrace), so I guess that he cannot really show its offence very much. But I don't think that he should turn to the AHL in my opinion, since he has shown that he can compete in the NHL consistently. But you might be right however!

About your comment on Yamamoto, I have to agree with you!

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Drouin hasn’t improved his numbers in three seasons, it’s getting a little late to be selling the ‘+’ factor to him.

I can’t stand guys that won’t work hard and disappear when the going gets tough. I loved Eberle but it was time for him to go when he got traded and the return sucked. I don’t know that you’re quite at that point with him yet but no one is moving an expansion exempt top pick for him.

Drouin scored 53 points (career high) at 23 years old. That would put him 4th on the Oilers points list. In fact, at 23 years old, RNH put up a paltry 43pts in 82 games, having regressed. The fact is, we know Drouin can produce offense and he does it without the benefit of a generational talent feeding him points. Drouin focussed on 2-way play at the tail end of the season. The + factor is there. And the irony is, Chaos - you were the on in your own Edm forum wondering if the Oilers could get him for cheap. Why would you want him if you can't stand guys that won't work hard??? Two-faced?

As for Caleb Jones, its outrageous how much you overrate him. He's an average prospect who has barely cracked the NHL on a team that ranks up there fore the worst defense in the league. Caleb Jone's junior career wasn't all that great. Mete is a superior two-way player with incredible speed and puckmoving ability. There is a reason why he was relied upon by the Habs on the top-pairing. He's obviously not a top-pairing dman but he was the most reliable / dependable LHD this season and he produced. Caleb Jones doesn't hold a candle to Mete in the defensive end. Not even in the stratosphere.

No thank you on Caleb Jones. No interest in him whatsoever. What the Habs need is an established top-4 LHD. Someone like a Darnell Nurse or Klefbom type. That's the only dman on the Oilers i would consider.