Proposal: MTL & ARIZONA

[Hockey Stick]

Nobody touches that contract given how he has been performing, esp. with Covid and the flat cap situation...

It would mean that MTL would pay as of 2021-2022, 14m for goalkeepers, 26m for 4Ds (assume 3 ELCs, so 2.5m for your D core), which leaves 40m to sign 12/13 forwards not as if the forward group was so good as it is... But wait Gallagher is paid 6m+, Anderson 5.5, Drouin 5.5, Toffoli 4, Byron 3.4, Evans 0.8, so that only 15.5m remain for 6 forwards, incl. 1C, 2C, 3C, 1 LW, 3 LW, 4RW, good luck !

Also with KK and Mete due raises this offseason, and Suzuki and Evans next offseason. An OEL deal, money-wise, just couldn't work without a big contract going back

 

[McJedi]

Carey Price

Probably 1 of Chiarot/Edmundson (with OEL one of them becomes useless) + Byron.

Makes sense. Frees the Habs of several contracts you don’t want or need.

 

[Mersss]

OEL has a full NMC and was only willing to waive for Boston or Vancouver. If he were to expand that to Montreal, then an extended Tatar, Chairot, and a 1st is quite a good offer. Having said that, I’d probably insist on Kaiden Guhle instead of that 1st. Otherwise I’d look to see if someone else could do better on an offer including a D prospect.

Guhle-Caufield-Norlinder-Harris-Struble-Ylonen aren't being traded.

You can pick any other prospect you want, or take that 2021 1st round pick.

 

[McJedi]

The Habs are not giving up Caufield in a package for OEL.

Then they wouldn’t get him. Would have to aim lower. Tatar has zero value to a franchise like Arizona. His value becomes deeply negative the moment he signs a 5 year $5mm AAV contract as the OP suggests. Let me counter that terribad suggestion by preeminently calling that the worst contract signed this up coming offseason.

ask yourself this, would you be excited to see Montreal sign Tatar to that deal today? Exactly. So why would Arizona? Also... exactly.

so the entire premise is flawed in that it actually values Tatar (he has zero to Arizona) and makes it substantially worse with the 5 year contract.

so if Byron has to be attached as well (negative value) but makes the cap math work, then all the value for OEL has to come in other pieces. So one of Caufield or Guhle. A unprotected 1st in 2022. 2nd rounders in 2021 and 2023. Mete (toss in) and another good prospect b+ makes the deal happen.

 

[Baksfamous112]

If I’m Arizona, I’m a hard pass on Tatar but I snag Danault, Mete and Caufield in this deal. Doesn’t matter if you resign Danault. It’s about getting younger.

if Habs have an expiring contract to add, by all means, but I put a zero value on it. It’s just filler.

Tatar at $5Mm for 5 years all in his 30s sounds like a nightmare contract. Woof. That’s the worst part of your proposal by far.

That’s just not happening. Neither is Guhle. I personally don’t want to touch OEL contract. I think I’d rather have Tatar at 5x5 then be stuck with the remaining 7 years x 8M of OEL.

 

[Mersss]

Then they wouldn’t get him. Would have to aim lower. Tatar has zero value to a franchise like Arizona. His value becomes deeply negative the moment he signs a 5 year $5mm AAV contract as the OP suggests. Let me counter that terribad suggestion by preeminently calling that the worst contract signed this up coming offseason.

ask yourself this, would you be excited to see Montreal sign Tatar to that deal today? Exactly. So why would Arizona? Also... exactly.

so the entire premise is flawed in that it actually values Tatar (he has zero to Arizona and makes it substantially worse with the 5 year contract)

so if Byron has to be attached as well (negative value) but makes the cap work, then all the value for OEL has to come in other pieces. So one of Caufield or Guhle. A 1st on 2022. 2nd rounders in 2021 and 2023. Mete (toss in) and another good prospect b+ makes the deal happen.

That package would get the Habs a top d-man, not a 30+ YO 8.5M$ D-man.
OEL hasn't been anywhere near good enough over the past years to be worth that much, especially @ his cap hit.

BTW, How exactly is a winger who's averaged 60pts over the past 4 season not be worth 5M$ / year? That would prob be bellow actual market value.

OEL value isn't more than Ekhlms value, so similar to what Muzzin got. A late 1st, and 2 B / B- prospects.

Unless you were trading 24-25YO OEL, which isn't the case.

 

[McJedi]

That package would get the Habs a top d-man, not a 30+ YO 8.5M$ D-man.
OEL hasn't been anywhere near good enough over the past years to be worth that much, especially @ his cap hit.

BTW, How exactly is a winger who's averaged 60pts over the past 4 season not be worth 5M$ / year? That would prob be bellow actual market value.

OEL value isn't more than Ekhlms value, so similar to what Muzzin got. A late 1st, and 2 B / B- prospects.

Unless you were trading 24-25YO OEL, which isn't the case.

hes a better player than those two, but it’s a flat cap so it’s hard to know value. Contracts that big aren’t changing hands. Pull the 2nd in 2023.

then it’s Guhle, 2nd in this upcoming lousy draft and 1st (plus filler) in 2022 for OEL.

 

[McJedi]

That’s just not happening. Neither is Guhle. I personally don’t want to touch OEL contract. I think I’d rather have Tatar at 5x5 then be stuck with the remaining 7 years x 8M of OEL.

OEL is a much better player than Tatar. But I wouldn’t want either of those contracts. Montreal has enough bad long term deals not to sign or acquire more.

Frankly, I’m not sure why one of your fans proposed adding OEL in the first place. Or why he thought Arizona would want Tatar and give him a really ill conceived contract.

this OP had a thought in his head that should have stayed there.

 

[Mersss]

hes a better player than those two, but it’s a flat cap so it’s hard to know value. Contracts that big aren’t changing hands. Pull the 2nd in 2023.

then it’s Guhle, 2nd in this upcoming lousy draft and 1st (plus filler) in 2022 for OEL.

You're nt getting

A top prospect
a 1st round pick
2nd round pick

For 30YO 8.5M$ OEL. He's nt worth that. Guhle has been a monster ever since he's been drafted. and Habs aren't trading their 1st in 2021

You'll get a similar offer to what Ekholm is worth, 1st + 2 X B / B- prospect + Cap filler.

1st 2021
Poehling
2nd
Cap filler

Anything else, you can keep the overpaid OEL. He isn't worth a bluechip prospect like Guhle/Caufield/Norlinder/Harris/Struble + a 1st round pick

 

[McJedi]

It would appear to a neutral fan that MB waited too long to get value on Tatar and Danault. Both of whom have seen their trade value crater since last season’s trading deadline.

It’s pretty obvious both will walk in UFA. But neither will fetch much as a rental given the cap issues league wide and their poor 2021 individual performances. Odd asset management.

 

[McJedi]

You're nt getting

A top prospect
a 1st round pick
2nd round pick

For 30YO 8.5M$ OEL. He's nt worth that. Guhle has been a monster ever since he's been drafted. and Habs aren't trading their 1st in 2021

You'll get a similar offer to what Ekholm is worth, 1st + 2 X B / B- prospect + Cap filler.

1st 2021
Poehling
2nd
Cap filler

Anything else, you can keep the overpaid OEL. He isn't worth a bluechip prospect like Guhle/Caufield/Norlinder/Harris/Struble + a 1st round pick

Arizona would need to be very desperate to take that crappy offer for a guy they play top pair.

poehling has virtually no value. No one can scout what looks like a weak 2021 draft and a second isn’t enticing for a guy you deploy as top pair.

Arizona would be better off keeping him vs making their team significantly worse for such a meager return.

 

[Mersss]

It would appear to a neutral fan that MB waited too long to get value on Tatar and Danault. Both of whom have seen their trade value crater since last season’s trading deadline.

It’s pretty obvious both will walk in UFA. But neither will fetch much as a rental given the cap issues league wide and their poor 2021 individual performances. Odd asset management.

Both these guys would fetch a 1st round pick + @ TDL.

Blake COLEMAN fetch a 1st round pick last year. Both Danault and Tatar are far betetr players than Coleman.

Their salary would be irrelevant @ the TDL due to the fact more than 60% of their actual salary would be off the books already

 

[McJedi]

Both these guys would fetch a 1st round pick + @ TDL.

Blake COLEMAN fetch a 1st round pick last year. Both Danault and Tatar are far betetr players than Coleman.

Their salary would be irrelevant @ the TDL due to the fact more than 60% of their actual salary would be off the books already

we’ll see. I bet you don’t deal one of them and the other goes for much less than a 1st plus.

citing a pre flat cap, pre C19 trade is rather silly. Lots of people around here did that before free agency last offseason and looked quite foolish for their rosy projections that didn’t come to fruition.

 

[Mersss]

Arizona would need to be very desperate to take that crappy offer for a guy they play top pair.

poehling has virtually no value. No one can scout what looks like a weak 2021 draft and a second isn’t enticing for a guy you deploy as top pair.

Arizona would be better off keeping him vs making their team significantly worse for such a meager return.

OEL hasn't been anywhere close to be worth his 8.5M$ contract. He won't fetch more than that. Longer they take to trade him, only lower his value will be.

Again, his value will be similar to what a guy like Muzzin fetch considering he's overpaid by at least 2M$ right now with the way he's playing. The fact he's being used as a top pair d-man in ARI doesn't change the fact he hasn't ben good for the past 3 years.

 

[Mersss]

we’ll see. I bet you don’t deal one of them and the other goes for much less than a 1st plus.

citing a pre flat cap, pre C19 trade is rather silly. Lots of people around here did that before free agency last offseason and looked quite foolish for their rosy projections that didn’t come to fruition.

Habs are in a playoff spot, they won't trade any of them befre they know for sure they'll be out (which won't happen)

BUT, IF they were to miss the playoffs, Danualt and Tatar would definitely fetch more than a 1st round pick, easily. Danault alone with his PK and defensivle ability would be worth quite a lot to shutdown opposing teams top line in the playoffs. That alone is worth a whole lot more than a 1st round pick in what you call a lousy draft.

OEL isn't worth a 1st and a top prospect, not @ 30YO, not @ 8.5M$ for another 6years after this one.

He'd fetch a 2021 1st, a couple of B / B- prospects and a cap dump, cause there's not a single team in the NHL that can take on tat massive contract whitout sending one Arizona's way.

 

[rt]

Guhle-Caufield-Norlinder-Harris-Struble-Ylonen aren't being traded.

You can pick any other prospect you want, or take that 2021 1st round pick.

Fair enough. If the final offer is two 30 year olds and a late first in the worst draft in a decade or two, I’d probably look elsewhere.

I like Tatar and Chiarot, though. It’s not an insulting offer or anything.

 

[Mersss]

Fair enough. If the final offer is two 30 year olds and a late first in the worst draft in a decade or two, I’d probably look elsewhere.

I like Tatar and Chiarot, though. It’s not an insulting offer or anything.

OEL is 30YO, and comes with an 8.5M$ contract for 6more years, which he has yet to live up to. Hard to say, but he isn't worth that much more than that. Maybe a small add here and there, but that contract is scary (like Vlasic kind of scary)

Unless he bounces back, not sure he's worth more than that, but he hasn't been playing very well for a while now. Huge risk for any GM acquiring him.

 

[Whalers Fan]

Then they wouldn’t get him. Would have to aim lower. Tatar has zero value to a franchise like Arizona. His value becomes deeply negative the moment he signs a 5 year $5mm AAV contract as the OP suggests. Let me counter that terribad suggestion by preeminently calling that the worst contract signed this up coming offseason.

ask yourself this, would you be excited to see Montreal sign Tatar to that deal today? Exactly. So why would Arizona? Also... exactly.

so the entire premise is flawed in that it actually values Tatar (he has zero to Arizona) and makes it substantially worse with the 5 year contract.

so if Byron has to be attached as well (negative value) but makes the cap math work, then all the value for OEL has to come in other pieces. So one of Caufield or Guhle. A unprotected 1st in 2022. 2nd rounders in 2021 and 2023. Mete (toss in) and another good prospect b+ makes the deal happen.

OEL's contract is no bed of roses, either. I wasn't suggesting that Tatar as part of a package for OEL is something Arizona would want (I'm not the OP), but was responding to another poster's counter proposal that included Caufield. There is no way the Habs are trading him or Guhle for OEL with that contract.

 

[McJedi]

OEL's contract is no bed of roses, either. I wasn't suggesting that Tatar as part of a package for OEL is something Arizona would want (I'm not the OP), but was responding to another poster's counter proposal that included Caufield. There is no way the Habs are trading him or Guhle for OEL with that contract.

In the end. I’m vexed by this proposal.

Why would Arizona want or value Tatar? They wouldn’t. Especially that awful idea of a $5 x 5. That’s a low blow.

Why the Habs would take on OELs deal. You guys don’t seem to want him at all. Why go out and acquire a deal many of you think is too long and too much AAV?

The OP threw up a very bad air ball here.

 

[Lockin17]

In the end. I’m vexed by this proposal.

Why would Arizona want or value Tatar? They wouldn’t. Especially that awful idea of a $5 x 5. That’s a low blow.

Why the Habs would take on OELs deal. You guys don’t seem to want him at all. Why go out and acquire a deal many of you think is too long and too much AAV?

The OP threw up a very bad air ball here.

Arizona could really use Tatar on their first line , their lw are terrible atm.
Chariot could do a decent job to replace OEL , and a first ?
I think Arizona could really use these assets to get better now and future in a first pick

 

[Mersss]

Arizona could really use Tatar on their first line , their lw are terrible atm.
Chariot could do a decent job to replace OEL , and a first ?
I think Arizona could really use these assets to get better now and future in a first pick

Habs can't take the risks of having 8.5M$ on a aging / under performing d-man. WAY too much cap tied up on a d-man that hasn't lived up for the past few years.

OEL isn't what the Habs needs, he makes too much for what he brings, and isn't an elite d-man anymore (but is paid as such).

Habs need to follow the path, keep the yougner guys like Romanov, Guhle, Caufield, KK, Suzuki etc... Habs aren't in a bad spot and they'll only get better. No need to try and acquire an overpaid d-man who won't make us THAT much a better team.

 

[Mersss]

In the end. I’m vexed by this proposal.

Why would Arizona want or value Tatar? They wouldn’t. Especially that awful idea of a $5 x 5. That’s a low blow.

Why the Habs would take on OELs deal. You guys don’t seem to want him at all. Why go out and acquire a deal many of you think is too long and too much AAV?

The OP threw up a very bad air ball here.

OEL is owed 10.5M$ for the next 3 years, AND is solidly underperforming his contract. He hasn't played as an elite d-man for a while now (but is paid as such)

Habs can't tie themselves up with that much cap on Weber-Price-OEL for 5+ years, it'D be a shit show.

I do not think OEL is a good fit, I wouldn't give anything of "value" for him considering what we already have on our blueline.

I mean, If the Yotes are OK with taking Weber + 1st round pick 2021 + Poehling for OEL and a B- prospect, there's something that could be made. But having 4 players over 30 (Price OEL Weber and Petry) making over 30+M$ of their salary cap? That's be atrocious

 

[McJedi]

Arizona could really use Tatar on their first line , their lw are terrible atm.
Chariot could do a decent job to replace OEL , and a first ?
I think Arizona could really use these assets to get better now and future in a first pick

There is no team in the NHL that should want or need Tatar anywhere near their first line. Nor making the money he does. He’s an overpaid, underperforming player in the last year of his deal. That guy carries little value in this flat cap setting. A change of scenery rental you hope sparks him.

 

[Boondock]

Guhle-Caufield-Norlinder-Harris-Struble-Ylonen aren't being traded.

You can pick any other prospect you want, or take that 2021 1st round pick.

Thats a long list of untouchable prospects. I wish I had the confidence in anything that you have in the Habs prospects. Sure there is some good potential there but to think they would all be off the table as they offer better options than existing NHLers seems a bit inaccurate. When was the last time a team was 6 legit NHL prospects deep - might be some wishful thinking.

 

[Mersss]

Thats a long list of untouchable prospects. I wish I had the confidence in anything that you have in the Habs prospects. Sure there is some good potential there but to think they would all be off the table as they offer better options than existing NHLers seems a bit inaccurate. When was the last time a team was 6 legit NHL prospects deep - might be some wishful thinking.

An existing NHL player coming in with an 8.5M$ contract for 6 more years.

I'd prob give more if the Yotes retained 2.5/3M$/ years on OEL contract (which would bring his contract value to the level he's playing right now), but they won,t retain that much on a contract.

I'd prob give somethign along the lines of

1st 2021
Strubble / Teasdale / McShane / Harris
Poehling
+
Chiarot

for OEL @ 5.5/6M$

at 8.5M$? no way