Confirmed Trade: [MTL/ARI] Christian Dvorak for 2022 1st round pick and 2024 2nd round pick [Part II]

[ismelofhockey]

Everyone is convinced the habs will be shit here so the habs will maintain a good draft pick. Arizona gets the lower of the two and the 2nd rounder is for 2024.

I believe you are wrong about that, though I may just be misinterpreting what you mean by "lower". Arizona will get the best of Montreal's two 1st round picks, unless one or both are in the top 10. If that were the case, Arizona would get the worse of the two picks.
So if one pick is 12th and the other 22nd, Arizona gets the 12th.
But if one pick is 9th and the other 19th, Arizona gets the 19th.

 

[abo9]

The Habs have too many good players to be able to tank with the likes of Buffalo, Anaheim, and Arizona.

It's not guarantee that Arizona will get a player in that range, nor would it mean that acquiring Dvorak was a bad move if they did. But the draft is in Montreal, and that will magnify the potential of those prospects for all the fans and media. If they miss the playoffs, it's going to get ugly.

Depends if the prospect pan out and how good he becomes if he does. Meanwhile Bergevin acquired a good NHL player.

Yeah, if it ends up being the 11th pick it sucks more than a 20th pick, but overall it's similar to how teams racing for the playoffs/in the playoffs mortgage their futures for rentals - except the rental has 3-4 years on his contract

 

[backburner]

So is Arizona forever rebuilding ? When is Phil the hot dog thrill moving

 

[Kcoyote3]

At the deadline likely

So is Arizona forever rebuilding ? When is Phil the hot dog thrill moving

 

[admiralcadillac]

I believe you are wrong about that, though I may just be misinterpreting what you mean by "lower". Arizona will get the best of Montreal's two 1st round picks, unless one or both are in the top 10. If that were the case, Arizona would get the worse of the two picks.
So if one pick is 12th and the other 22nd, Arizona gets the 12th.
But if one pick is 9th and the other 19th, Arizona gets the 19th.

Yes, but assuming the habs have a top 10 lottery pick they won’t lose it. Again the point is posters seem to think the habs are absolute garbage, what else is new.

 

[RationalExpectations]

So is Arizona forever rebuilding ? When is Phil the hot dog thrill moving

At the TDL with 50% retention I'd assume. Honestly, it looks like a team that wants a full reset, knowing very well it will leave its current arena, it does not seem to care to sell tickets for next year. In my opinion, they bet they can get Wright by tanking but I would not be surprised if they even try to move the franchise away from ARI (not saying it will happen just that I would not be surprised)

 

[filinski77]

So in essence, Montreal traded Kotkaniemi + 2nd for Dvorak + 3rd?

If my understanding is correct, that’s a huge win for Montreal since the difference from a 3rd and a 2nd is quite small, whereas Dvorak is cheaper and much better than Kotkaniemi.

 

[Goal Caufield50]

Ha - I've seen comments here that Dvorak will register 70 pts with the Habs. That is a pretty hefty overevaluation. Habs fans may have to realize that they just spent a first and second on essentially a slightly better Chris Tierney...What boggles my mind is that the same fans that are saying that Dvorak is a steal at this price and that he is a second line center where the same group who denigrated the payment for JG Pageau by the Islanders. Pageau is superior to Dvorak in every way possible and I would never consider him a second line center.

The schedule has been curtailed in each of the last two seasons with I believe 12 and 26 games not played. The prior season as a 22 year old he had an injury and missed 62 games. What is his season cap with a gallagar and a toffoli? Given the accomplishments achieve and prorating and a bit of a lift from the pedigree of wingers 70 points is not out of the realm of possibilities. I think he will get 18 minutes a night and play the pk so 55 to 65 point

 

[Goal Caufield50]

So in essence, Montreal traded Kotkaniemi + 2nd for Dvorak + 3rd?

If my understanding is correct, that’s a huge win for Montreal since the difference from a 3rd and a 2nd is quite small, whereas Dvorak is cheaper and much better than Kotkaniemi.

Can be viewed as smaller as it is a 2024 2nd

 

[Goal Caufield50]

LOL. True. On a good team, Dvorak is a 3C. On the Habs, with so little Centre depth, he's a 2C.

He won't get anywhere near 70 points. Try 35-40. It's a helluva lot closer to what the reality will be.

He has scored in this range missing 15 to 30% of the schedule. Not a stretch to get to 50 plus points

 

[kife]

The schedule has been curtailed in each of the last two seasons with I believe 12 and 26 games not played. The prior season as a 22 year old he had an injury and missed 62 games. What is his season cap with a gallagar and a toffoli? Given the accomplishments achieve and prorating and a bit of a lift from the pedigree of wingers 70 points is not out of the realm of possibilities. I think he will get 18 minutes a night and play the pk so 55 to 65 point

Personally I doubt it - but time will tell. I would guess something more in line with 45-55 pts max while being quite a bit defensively inferior to a guy like pageau...I've watched Dvorak play, he is good but not that good.

 

[rt]

So in essence, Montreal traded Kotkaniemi + 2nd for Dvorak + 3rd?

If my understanding is correct, that’s a huge win for Montreal since the difference from a 3rd and a 2nd is quite small, whereas Dvorak is cheaper and much better than Kotkaniemi.

It’s also likely to cost them around 7 slots (+\-3) in the 1st round. The price of which is usually about a 2nd.

 

[Jester9881]

Dvorak would be the no 2 centre on a few good teams : the Bruins, the Islanders, the Golden Knights.

He would also be a no 2 centre for serious playoff pretenders like the Stars, the Rangers, the Jets...

Dvorak is a nice player. He wouldn't displace any of the Islanders centers.

 

[Kurrilino]

Even on a good team Dvorak could be a 2C.
Dvorak is a proven 2 way 2nd line center (and a very good one), exactly like many teams chose to go with for that position - to say he’s anything less or more is just plain ignorance.

Only the ones not winning the cup.
Every Cup wining team had a solid 1-2 punch in the middle.

 

[SlafCaufield]

Dvorak is a nice player. He wouldn't displace any of the Islanders centers.

lol yes he would. All except Barzal

 

[KevSkillz4]

Dvorak is pretty underrated by some people. He is not a 70 points player, but with a new team, good wingers with him, he can put 60 points and with his two-way ability, that's a great top 6C.

Dvorak is not a 3rd line center, his talent that's a 2nd line player and can be a solid top 6 player on every great team.

 

[Jester9881]

lol yes he would. All except Barzal

Montreal fans are really taking the mantle around here lately. In what way is Dvorak better than Brock Nelson other than age? It's already pretty obvious JPG is better than him.

 

[Goal Caufield50]

Personally I doubt it - but time will tell. I would guess something more in line with 45-55 pts max while being quite a bit defensively inferior to a guy like pageau...I've watched Dvorak play, he is good but not that good.

Danault averaged 40 points so a decent replacement

 

[Habsrule]

Dvorak first 2 months of the season:
21 GP: 16 points

Rest of the season:
35 GP: 15 points.

That would be a 0.55 PPG pace. That is what he currently is at. If accept that pace of he can play against opponents top lines.

 

[Kai Yo T]

So is Arizona forever rebuilding ? When is Phil the hot dog thrill moving

He has a list of 8(?) teams he'll accept a trade to. Coyotes fans are betting he'll be desperate to GTFO and be open to a trade to about 25 other teams come the trade deadline lol. Our GM will more to work with then.

 

[samsagat]

Habs need to be a playoff or a bottom-10 team (and same with Carolina) 'cause if not, we're gonna regret this trade.

Next draft is supposed to be strong, both top-end and depth wise.

Chances are good that if one of Habs or Carolina pick is between 10 to 16th (and the other bottom tier), the player's gonna be better than Dvorak, who's an ok 35-45 pts 2-way center.

As far as I'm concerned, offensively Danault is less of a scorer for sure, but a better playmaker and his point total has been better since the beginning of his career.

Best point total Danault = 53 pts

Best point total Dvorak = 38 pts

Last year:

Danault 6th best scorer of his team with 24 pts

Dvorak 6th best scorer of his team with 31 pts

Habs goals scored: 159

Coyotes goals scored: 153

So those thinking that Dvorak will magically become a better point scorer in Mtl, at 25 yo, because we're such a more offensively inclined organisation, they're delusional.

Those comparing Dvorak to Danault favourably offensively wise are delusional too.

Danault was severely buried in the defensive zone last year (to protect the two youngsters) with as much DZ faceoffs than OZ and NZ combined.

He had close to zero time on the PP.

No sh.t that he didn't produce up to his standards.
But his line was still a force 5 vs 5 in scoring chances for/against.

Danault is elite defensively in this league, far better than Dvorak and offensively equal, all things considered.

And whatever we say about KK, he's more talented than Evans, Poehling or whoever else on the roster.

So our center line's getting weaker.

Our wings are about the same.

Getting weaker on defense. Where we're slow and not really good at moving the puck.
So our forward will have to constantly run after the dumps in (in central and offensive zone).

Our goaltending is a surprise box since Prive haven't been very good in 3 out of the last 4 seasons (he was very good in the playoffs though).
Allen is Allen, last year he started the season strong and then faltered ..

So no, after a season where he spent to the cap limit and distributed huge contracts like candies.
All that to put an end to a (very) brief "reset on the fly", in order to give a chance to his (washed up and overpaid) worshipped veterans to make it to the Stanley Cup final ..

My little finger tells me that the partys hangover is gonna be tough...

Contrary to many, I'm not impressed at all by MB managing abilities.

A lot of short sight moves in order to win short terms.
But in terms of making a global picture concerted, coherent plan to build a real contender and sticking to it... meh!!! meh and re-meh!!!

 

[Souker]

Only the ones not winning the cup.
Every Cup wining team had a solid 1-2 punch in the middle.

O’Reilly-Schenn.
Suzuki-Dvorak have the same potential.

 

[Habsddicted]

lol yes he would. All except Barzal

Jesus dude, every post of yours is embarassing for us Habs fans..

 

[kife]

lol yes he would. All except Barzal

HaHa - no, not even close...Dvorak would be a downgrade from both Nelson and Pageau. You might be able to stick on the 4th line at C, but that would not be proper use for him. Cszikas is better at that type of role.

 

[Mr Positive]

Habs need to be a playoff or a bottom-10 team (and same with Carolina) 'cause if not, we're gonna regret this trade.

Next draft is supposed to be strong, both top-end and depth wise.

Chances are good that if one of Habs or Carolina pick is between 10 to 16th (and the other bottom tier), the player's gonna be better than Dvorak, who's an ok 35-45 pts 2-way center.

As far as I'm concerned, offensively Danault is less of a scorer for sure, but a better playmaker and his point total has been better since the beginning of his career.

Best point total Danault = 53 pts

Best point total Dvorak = 38 pts

Last year:

Danault 6th best scorer of his team with 24 pts

Dvorak 6th best scorer of his team with 31 pts

Habs goals scored: 159

Coyotes goals scored: 153

So those thinking that Dvorak will magically become a better point scorer in Mtl, at 25 yo, because we're such a more offensively inclined organisation, they're delusional.

Those comparing Dvorak to Danault favourably offensively wise are delusional too.

Danault was severely buried in the defensive zone last year (to protect the two youngsters) with as much DZ faceoffs than OZ and NZ combined.

He had close to zero time on the PP.

No sh.t that he didn't produce up to his standards.
But his line was still a force 5 vs 5 in scoring chances for/against.

Danault is elite defensively in this league, far better than Dvorak and offensively equal, all things considered.

And whatever we say about KK, he's more talented than Evans, Poehling or whoever else on the roster.

So our center line's getting weaker.

Our wings are about the same.

Getting weaker on defense. Where we're slow and not really good at moving the puck.
So our forward will have to constantly run after the dumps in (in central and offensive zone).

Our goaltending is a surprise box since Prive haven't been very good in 3 out of the last 4 seasons (he was very good in the playoffs though).
Allen is Allen, last year he started the season strong and then faltered ..

So no, after a season where he spent to the cap limit and distributed huge contracts like candies.
All that to put an end to a (very) brief "reset on the fly", in order to give a chance to his (washed up and overpaid) worshipped veterans to make it to the Stanley Cup final ..

My little finger tells me that the partys hangover is gonna be tough...

Contrary to many, I'm not impressed at all by MB managing abilities.

A lot of short sight moves in order to win short terms.
But in terms of making a global picture concerted, coherent plan to build a real contender and sticking to it... meh!!! meh and re-meh!!!

adding a player like Dvorak for futures is a win-now move so the only way this trade is a good idea is if you make the playoffs. Being a bottom 10 team won't be consolation.

Also, the Habs are operating under the idea that being a contender is overrated, and I don't blame them. I could see the win against the Leafs as being a bit on the Leafs, or on injury luck. The win against Vegas was the shocking one. They proved that you can have players that elevate in the playoffs.

You can criticize Bergevin for all his past moves and decisions with the team, but with this roster, you may as well go for it again. Adding Dvorak was the right move, in context of adding Savard and Hoffman especially. The Atlantic is weak enough to go for it.