Proposal: MTL and CGY

[dgibb10]

Nemec was in no way sheltered this year. He played 1st pair because Hamilton went down for the season, then he played even more tough minutes when Marino went down. That kid is going to be as good as Ekblad, Slavin, and prime Ellis.

He didn't play as tough of minutes as Faber though, Faber will be McAvoy level good probably.

If he thinks nemec getting 9% of his zone starts in the offensive zone is sheltered just wait until he sees Cale Makar and his 22%

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Compared too Guhle yes. Just look is dzone start % on ofzone % start. Not close

No one is arguing Guhle played tough minutes, your argument was Nemec was sheltered (which is false). Also zone starts is a weak argument, the Habs only had 5 regulars above 50% in offensive zone starts.

Nemec absolutely wasn't sheltered due to his sheer ice time but New Jersey did everything in their power to ease him in, Montreal didn't have that option because sheltering Guhle would mean exposing a different kid to that QoC.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

If he thinks nemec getting 9% of his zone starts in the offensive zone is sheltered just wait until he sees Cale Makar and his 22%

I mean there is literally a site for QoC, Puck.iq lists Nemec as playing 310 minutes vs elite competition this season in 60 games (roughly 5 minutes a game on average). That's not sheltered

 

[dgibb10]

No one is arguing Guhle played tough minutes, your argument was Nemec was sheltered (which is false). Also zone starts is a weak argument, the Habs only had 5 regulars above 50% in offensive zone starts.

Nemec absolutely wasn't sheltered due to his sheer ice time but New Jersey did everything in their power to ease him in, Montreal didn't have that option because sheltering Guhle would mean exposing a different kid to that QoC.

NJDs attempt at sheltering Nemec was playing him in the AHL to start the year.

Once he reached the NHL, it was clear he was our best RD and he was played as such, although NJD rolls their pairs pretty evenly.

 

[Bond]

I find it funny that Calgary 2025 1st is already a top 10 protected pick (but on the other side of protection) and that there’s no way they would ever overachieve and be a bubble team.

last years, Seattle were a top 3 pick guaranteed and they made the playoff. This year, Philly was a guaranteed top 3 pick and supposed to be the team with the best odds at Celibrini. They ended up being a bubble team.

Nothing is guaranteed in life, especially not a hockey team. New coach, a strong year from Huberdeau and Markstrom/Wolf and a couple of young gunz taking a big step and you could easily see Calgary being in the picture for a playoff spot.

New coach was here this year and it didn’t matter. The Flames have two top four defensemen and no #1 center.

The roster doesn’t fit together, has no game breakers, and has gotten worse. Factor in that the Flames also have 2-3 more UFAs to turn over and the recipe is for a long and painful season.

 

[dgibb10]

I mean there is literally a site for QoC, Puck.iq lists Nemec as playing 310 minutes vs elite competition this season in 60 games (roughly 5 minutes a game on average). That's not sheltered

I did not know that about puck.iq.

I'll have to look at that going forward.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

NJDs attempt at sheltering Nemec was playing him in the AHL to start the year.

Once he reached the NHL, it was clear he was our best RD and he was played as such, although NJD rolls their pairs pretty evenly.

I'm defending Nemec... At times when only Hamilton was injured it would be moronic of the coach to throw Nemec to the wolves because that can destroy someone's growth. We aren't comparing Nemec to Guhle, Guhle absolutely played tougher minutes this season but that's simply because there is no depth on Montreal. The argument was whether Nemec was sheltered or not and the answer is the team attempted to but circumstances meant they couldn't

 

[Baksfamous112]

NJDs attempt at sheltering Nemec was playing him in the AHL to start the year.

Once he reached the NHL, it was clear he was our best RD and he was played as such, although NJD rolls their pairs pretty evenly.

Nemec was sheltered in NJ. He rarely played against the best players on the other side. It’s much easier to look good against 3rd line but much different when playing against the Matthews, Panarin, Aho, Pastrnak of this world

 

[Xirik]

Nemec was sheltered in NJ. He rarely played against the best players on the other side. It’s much easier to look good against 3rd line but much different when playing against the Matthews, Panarin, Aho, Pastrnak of this world

Sheltered while playing almost 20 minutes a night?

 

[Baksfamous112]

Sheltered while playing almost 20 minutes a night?

Yes

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Nemec was sheltered in NJ. He rarely played against the best players on the other side. It’s much easier to look good against 3rd line but much different when playing against the Matthews, Panarin, Aho, Pastrnak of this world

Sheltered minutes are when you play almost strictly in favorable match ups like mainly lined up against the opponents depth players. Nemec actually played more minutes against elite competition than he did against depth players. He played most of his time against middle 6 caliber players but that's pretty standard for defensemen as most of the league consists of that, especially when a coach can afford to try and match up his proven shutdown guys like Seigenthaler and Marino vs the elite guys

 

[Junohockeyfan]

So you think a true top pairing like Nemec would have put better result?

Nemec is not a top pairing D. This is ridiculous!

 

[Baksfamous112]

Sheltered minutes are when you play almost strictly in favorable match ups like mainly lined up against the opponents depth players. Nemec actually played more minutes against elite competition than he did against depth players. He played most of his time against middle 6 caliber players but that's pretty standard for defensemen as most of the league consists of that, especially when a coach can afford to try and match up his proven shutdown guys like Seigenthaler and Marino vs the elite guys

Odds are that even if you’re the most sheltered player in the league you’re going to end up playing against the best player on the opposite team once in a while. Nemec was deployed favorably against mostly middle/bottom lineup guys. Didn’t play any PK either. Of course most talented, young D will look decent to good in those minutes.

To say he’s a first pairing D or played like one is laughable at best. Will he become one? Maybe, but until he does he isn’t one

 

[Junohockeyfan]

If he thinks nemec getting 9% of his zone starts in the offensive zone is sheltered just wait until he sees Cale Makar and his 22%

Sure, and Nemec gets 9.4% of his zone starts in the defensive zone. He is 6th among NJ D in DZ starts. You could make the argument he is sheltered.

If Nemec is top-pairing, why isn't he playing top-pairing minutes on the NJD?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Odds are that even if you’re the most sheltered player in the league you’re going to end up playing against the best player on the opposite team once in a while. Nemec was deployed favorably against mostly middle/bottom lineup guys. Didn’t play any PK either. Of course most talented, young D will look decent to good in those minutes.

To say he’s a first pairing D or played like one is laughable at best. Will he become one? Maybe, but until he does he isn’t one

Huh? Over 5 minutes at 5v5 a night is not once in a while, that's about 8-10 shifts out of like 25. Nemec was deployed more against middle lineup guys, and less against bottom lineup guys. Considering about 60% of the league is considered "middle lineup guys" that makes sense. If you are arguing middle + bottom combined then that is stupid because there isn't a single player in the league that played more than 50% of their total ice time vs elite competition.

I never called him a 1st pairing D, I said he played well against elite competition. I do think he will become a top 15 defenseman in the league some day though. At least I'm not attempting to undermine a 20 year old's rookie season

 

[Baksfamous112]

So you think a true top pairing like Nemec would have put better result?

Huh? Over 5 minutes at 5v5 a night is not once in a while, that's about 8-10 shifts out of like 25. Nemec was deployed more against middle lineup guys, and less against bottom lineup guys. Considering about 60% of the league is considered "middle lineup guys" that makes sense. If you are arguing middle + bottom combined then that is stupid because there isn't a single player in the league that played more than 50% of their total ice time vs elite competition.

I never called him a 1st pairing D, I said he played well against elite competition. I do think he will become a top 15 defenseman in the league some day though. At least I'm not attempting to undermine a 20 year old's rookie season

The first pairing comment was directed at the poster above. I should have tagged him as well. Sorry if this was unclear.

Nemec did not perform well against elite competition. There’s a reason he was on the third pair and no PK.

I don’t see how my comment undermine a 20 years old. He played well against poor competition and bad against elite competition. He was heavily sheltered and deployed as such. He’s got the talent to eventually be a top pair D. All these can be true and spitting facts does not undermine said player.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

The first pairing comment was directed at the poster above. I should have tagged him as well. Sorry if this was unclear.

Nemec did not perform well against elite competition. There’s a reason he was on the third pair and no PK.

I don’t see how my comment undermine a 20 years old. He played well against poor competition and bad against elite competition. He was heavily sheltered and deployed as such. He’s got the talent to eventually be a top pair D. All these can be true and spitting facts does not undermine said player.

100% agree. He was very sheltered as a 19 year old rookie, and he should be sheltered. NJ coaching would have done him a disservice if they didn't shelter him. Nothing wrong with admitting to that. Not sure why NJ fans struggle with that.

I also am convinced Nemec has the talent to eventually become a top pair D. But NJ fans acting like he is one now is the very definition of homerism.

With all that being said this thread is about Mtl/Cgy trade proposals.

 

[McJedi]

MTL : Guhle + Pitt 2nd 2025 + Avs 2nd 2024
for
CGY : #9 + Florida first pick 2025

Ghule would be a stud on CGY defense for years (no magic bean here) + 2 x 2nd

MTL gets #9 + Florida pick
MTL can spare Ghule with all the LHD comming up

The addiction many of the Habs fans have to 1st round picks is starting to concern the rest of us. So Habs just hit reset on the rebuild again. Push it back a few more years?

You also overvalue Guhle. Not worth a top 10 pick + another first. He’s not even coming off a good season. He stagnated this season.

 

[DFF]

They could pick a dman as good as Guhle at #9 and able to keep him longer. Guhle for that pick don’t make sense for the Flames

 

[Baksfamous112]

The addiction many of the Habs fans have to 1st round picks is starting to concern the rest of us. So Habs just hit reset on the rebuild again. Push it back a few more years?

You also overvalue Guhle. Not worth a top 10 pick + another first. He’s not even coming off a good season. He stagnated this season.

it concerns some of us Habs fans as well. We should be exiting our rebuild, not plunge into another one.

On the surface, his numbers aren’t that great but the poor guy had the responsibility to shut down the top players on the other team night in/night out, which is not exactly ideal for a 21 years old who’s in his second NHL season.

He’s progressed and played as well as you can ask a 21 years old to shut down elite players. I can’t wait to see what he’s going to look like at 25. He’s going to be a very, very good two-way D in this league. Probably somewhere between a Brodin and a Slavin.

EDIT: Now that I think if it, somewhere in between of Slavin and Toews comparison is more likely as I think he has more offense in him than Brodin has/had

 

[CanadienShark]

I'm not. I have consistently said that what guhle has done in a tough role is very admirable. But if you're going to bring up his very tough assignments, you also need to acknowledge the lack of overall success in those assignments.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

You prefer to just look at cake?

 

[bud12]

Imagine thinking that Nemec is a top pairing def while considering Guhle only a top4 is laughable. Watching both play, you can clearly see one is more developped and the better player right now. Nemec have a really good chance to be better and probably will but right now he's not. And netheir are top pairing level at the moment

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

The first pairing comment was directed at the poster above. I should have tagged him as well. Sorry if this was unclear.

Nemec did not perform well against elite competition. There’s a reason he was on the third pair and no PK.

I don’t see how my comment undermine a 20 years old. He played well against poor competition and bad against elite competition. He was heavily sheltered and deployed as such. He’s got the talent to eventually be a top pair D. All these can be true and spitting facts does not undermine said player.

Um he actually performed best against elite competition

 

[Some Other Flame]

I find it funny that Calgary 2025 1st is already a top 10 protected pick (but on the other side of protection) and that there’s no way they would ever overachieve and be a bubble team.

last years, Seattle were a top 3 pick guaranteed and they made the playoff. This year, Philly was a guaranteed top 3 pick and supposed to be the team with the best odds at Celibrini. They ended up being a bubble team.

Nothing is guaranteed in life, especially not a hockey team. New coach, a strong year from Huberdeau and Markstrom/Wolf and a couple of young gunz taking a big step and you could easily see Calgary being in the picture for a playoff spot.

Is it possible? Sure.

Is it likely? lol no

Maybe the Flames surprise and have a cinderella year. But it's considerably more likely they finish in the bottom 10, if not the bottom 5. And only the most incompetent franchises run by GM's looking to get fired would plan and make moves based around the longest of longshots.

I get why Montreal fans are hoping another franchise does something dumb and they can rip them off but it is rather hilarious that they seem surprised if not baffled that said fanbases don't actually want to do that.

 

[GCK]

MTL : Guhle + Pitt 2nd 2025 + Avs 2nd 2024
for
CGY : #9 + Florida first pick 2025

Ghule would be a stud on CGY defense for years (no magic bean here) + 2 x 2nd

MTL gets #9 + Florida pick
MTL can spare Ghule with all the LHD comming up

Ludicrous. Massive overpay by Calgary