Outdated or not, all depends how the original agreement was written in 1982. Yes, at the time it was a threat. Same with the threat of the Yankees moving to NJ. City lost the Giants and were about to lose the Jets.
City Budget Office: Madison Square Garden’s tax break doesn’t make sense
Madison Square Garden’ s enormous tax break should be eliminated because James Dolan is unlikely to move his teams from the New York City cash cow, according to a new report from the Independ…www.bostonherald.com
The tax break, which began prior to Dolan’s reign as MSG warden, has cost New York City roughly $1 billion, according to the government agency, which it called a conservative estimate. Dolan is now saving about $43 million per year on property taxes.
The reason for the tax break — which was established in 1982 after threats from the Knicks and Rangers that they’d leave New York City — is outdated, the IBO determined.
“The current location of MSG in Midtown Manhattan and directly above Penn Station, creates optimal conditions for revenue generation that would be impossible to replicate were MSG to move to New Jersey or another major metropolitan area,” read the 30-page report titled, ‘An Examination of the Madison Square Garden Property Tax Exemption.’ “Furthermore because of league restrictions, it would likely prove challenging to co-locate the Rangers and Knicks outside of the New York area to meet both the National Hockey League (NHL) and National Basketball Association (NBA) league requirements, which are designed to prevent sports franchises within leagues from competing in the same regional markets.”
In other words, Dolan is excused from paying taxes because of an unrealistic scenario. The latest attempt to axe the exemption is a budget proposal from Democrats in the state senate. But Gov. Kathy Hochul, whose reelection campaign benefitted from major donations and support from the Dolan family, was noncommittal on the subject.
”What’s been proposed by a senator is certainly something we look at, a lot of ideas are proposed,” Hochul told Good Day New York. “I just want to make sure that we’re doing the right thing with respect to MSG.”
MSG permit extension hits a major snag
- Thread starter Fenway
- Start date
Foxy
Registered User
- Oct 5, 2020
- 133
- 215
City council went against the planning commissions recommendation and only gave MSG a 5 year permit extension. Turns out we'll be doing this again sooner rather then later.
I do wonder how messy this gets now. I thought it would be 10 year renewals in perpetuity, but Dolan it seems, is not the best political player, the council is also coming after him on the tax exemption status and the use facial recognition to enforce bans.
Will be interesting to see what happens next though. You'll probably get Hochul pushing for her 7 Billion dollar total renovation of Penn again, Vornado which owns the other half of the block probably makes a play to renovate the station while completing their Penn district, with a few more skyscrapers, all while transit advocates will be pushing to rebuild the original Penn. Should be a fun few years!
I do wonder how messy this gets now. I thought it would be 10 year renewals in perpetuity, but Dolan it seems, is not the best political player, the council is also coming after him on the tax exemption status and the use facial recognition to enforce bans.
Will be interesting to see what happens next though. You'll probably get Hochul pushing for her 7 Billion dollar total renovation of Penn again, Vornado which owns the other half of the block probably makes a play to renovate the station while completing their Penn district, with a few more skyscrapers, all while transit advocates will be pushing to rebuild the original Penn. Should be a fun few years!
City Council Renews Madison Square Garden Permit
The City Council Subcommittee on Zoning and Franchises approved the arena’s special permit for only five years.
therealdeal.com
Major4Boarding
Unfamiliar Moderator
I’m wondering if (with this latest development) that Dolan just doesn’t say “you know what… screw it” and sells off and let it be somebody else’s problem.
cptjeff
Reprehensible User
They can never deny the permit without getting the mother of all regulatory takings lawsuits. You can't use government powers simply to deny somebody the productive use of their property to try and force them out. If you do so, you have to pay compensation for the loss of that use. At that point, you really should just be using eminent domain. Denying the permit is an empty threat and Dolan knows it.City council went against the planning commissions recommendation and only gave MSG a 5 year permit extension. Turns out we'll be doing this again sooner rather then later.
I do wonder how messy this gets now. I thought it would be 10 year renewals in perpetuity, but Dolan it seems, is not the best political player, the council is also coming after him on the tax exemption status and the use facial recognition to enforce bans.
Will be interesting to see what happens next though. You'll probably get Hochul pushing for her 7 Billion dollar total renovation of Penn again, Vornado which owns the other half of the block probably makes a play to renovate the station while completing their Penn district, with a few more skyscrapers, all while transit advocates will be pushing to rebuild the original Penn. Should be a fun few years!
City Council Renews Madison Square Garden Permit
The City Council Subcommittee on Zoning and Franchises approved the arena’s special permit for only five years.therealdeal.com
You wanna force MSG out for a new Penn Station? Eminent domain or a site swap. Those are your options. Yes, it will cost an ungodly amount of money. Tough.
Foxy
Registered User
- Oct 5, 2020
- 133
- 215
Yeah, this feels more retaliatory, then really trying to force him out. When he banned lawyers from firms suing him, it ruffled a lot of feathers, and he's been getting attacked ever since. First the state liquor board tried to revoke the garden's liquor license, then the state senate attacked his $42m tax abatement, so it makes sense the city took their shot at him and only gave him 5 years.
Add to that, the LIRR just did a 700 million dollar renovation of its Penn station section, Amtrak just built a brand new station across the street and NJT is supposed to get a new station one block south of Penn with the gateway project, so none of the rail agencies have a real need for a Penn station overhaul at the moment. This makes me think it was more a middle finger to Dolan then anything, and the last thing these politicians would want to do is pay him boatloads of money for his building.
City council went against the planning commissions recommendation and only gave MSG a 5 year permit extension. Turns out we'll be doing this again sooner rather then later.
I do wonder how messy this gets now. I thought it would be 10 year renewals in perpetuity, but Dolan it seems, is not the best political player, the council is also coming after him on the tax exemption status and the use facial recognition to enforce bans.
City Council Renews Madison Square Garden Permit
The City Council Subcommittee on Zoning and Franchises approved the arena’s special permit for only five years.therealdeal.com
Its actually pretty funny that he is so bad at politics when the Cleveland-wing of the family (the ones who own the Cleveland Guardians) is pretty damn good at it. Not only were they able to get state, city, and county money to renovate their ballpark, but Matt Dolan (James's cousin) is a State Senator and is actually one of the few Republican who pretty well respected in the Cleveland area which is overwhelmingly Democrat.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
To me, it doesn't feel retaliatory or trying to force him out. There have been rumors he wants to sell the teams. Everything the city does with the permit feels to me like just trying to wait him out, rather than force him out.
Kane One
Moderator
The rumors with Dolan looking to sell the teams still has him owning MSG.
