Player Discussion: Moving Forward, Goalie Talk
- Thread starter YesCubed
- Start date
3 Goaltenders, 2 jobs, Cap Space
Forget about Halak arguably having a slightly worse year than Greiss. I see two starters and Berube who seems to be having a good year as well. What do you do for next year? Keep in mind cost control and other needs.
Salaries:
Halak - 4.5m, signed through 17/18, 30 years old
Greiss - 1.5m, signed through 16/17, 30 years old
Berube - .5 m, RFA this summer, 24 years old
I see three scenarios:
Keep Halak and Greiss, try to get best return for Berube. Likely a 4th or whatever. Basically lose Berube for nothing. Lose a good backup who comes in strong when cold. Cap hit is $6 million on goaltending.
Keep Halak and Berube, trade Greiss for a much bigger return, lose a phenomenal backup who is good even when cold. Cap hit is $5.5 million on goaltending.
Keep Greiss and Berube, trade Halak for potentially less return than Greiss when you factor in cost for 2016/17, lose a solid starter despite whatever you read into the stats this year, lose a guy who sucks when he comes in cold, cap hit is $2 to $2.5 million on goaltending.
I don't see an easy answer to this.
Forget about Halak arguably having a slightly worse year than Greiss. I see two starters and Berube who seems to be having a good year as well. What do you do for next year? Keep in mind cost control and other needs.
Salaries:
Halak - 4.5m, signed through 17/18, 30 years old
Greiss - 1.5m, signed through 16/17, 30 years old
Berube - .5 m, RFA this summer, 24 years old
I see three scenarios:
Keep Halak and Greiss, try to get best return for Berube. Likely a 4th or whatever. Basically lose Berube for nothing. Lose a good backup who comes in strong when cold. Cap hit is $6 million on goaltending.
Keep Halak and Berube, trade Greiss for a much bigger return, lose a phenomenal backup who is good even when cold. Cap hit is $5.5 million on goaltending.
Keep Greiss and Berube, trade Halak for potentially less return than Greiss when you factor in cost for 2016/17, lose a solid starter despite whatever you read into the stats this year, lose a guy who sucks when he comes in cold, cap hit is $2 to $2.5 million on goaltending.
I don't see an easy answer to this.
SI90
Registered User
SI90
Registered User
It looks like we both had goaltending on our minds after this last game.
Probably the best thing is to get games split between them and go with the hot goaltender. The beautiful thing about that is they are both good coming in cold. I don't worry about getting one hot before the playoffs. I am FAR more worried about the team playing hot in front of them. But if you make me answer now I go with Greiss. He has more experience facing more of the players we will come up against.
Strummergas
Regular User
Keep all three, with Jaro's injury history and Greiss being a FA after next year, no need to rush anything. Only way I would change that is if he is lights out in all his starts (too soon to make any decisions) or if there is a massive overpayment offered.
danteipp
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- Aug 3, 2005
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Lol, just a couple weeks ago people couldn't understand the move to retain three goalies and stash Berube on IR, then a week ago people weren't sure if he was better than what the Isles had in the AHL, now Berube is the new Isles starting goalie. Maybe next week we start working on his Hall of Fame acceptance speech? How about we all just sit back and enjoy the ride then see what happens after the season?
Skip To My Lou
Abused Fan
danteipp
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Hah, he is probably riding the first good news we had in a week.
That said if he can backup Greiss, and Greiss can start....
This is a great problem to have. I can't remember the last time we had two goaltenders we could rely on even in a starter/backup capacity. And you have to admit he has looked good coming in cold. Maybe back when we had Hrudey? It seems like a century ago.
There is no shame in wondering how this could help us.
On Edge
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KnishOfTheCrease
Chez Pierre Enthusiast
danteipp
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But I think there is a better, and more realistic, way to discuss this and proceed cautiously however. You can go back into the Berube thread and read my posts. I said this a couple times BEFORE Halak went down (and was diagnosed in the afternoon on March 9th) and explained why it was a good thing Snow kept Berube around, the rationale for retaining a $500,000 insurance policy and the relief of not having to watch an old Nabokov/Poulin/Nilsson three-headed monster that helped tank a season.
Better yet, I will just copy one f my posts from March 5th as follows:
So far, I have not heard JF Berube, or his agent, complaining about the situation. While I am sure that the player would prefer to be a starting NHL goalie (or serving as top backup) right now, he is getting a very nice pay day to sacrifice one year of on-ice development. I assume he is still working out in a NHL facility, practicing with NHL players and has access to high-end training methods that would not be available in the AHL.
It is important to note that JF Berube's two-year contract calls for him to be paid $550,000 annually if in the NHL during the 2014-15 season and $575,000 for time with an NHL club in 2015-16. His AHL salary is $65,000 both years. After this season, Berube will have an additional $500,000 in his pocket and, I assume, accrued a season of NHL service time and benefits.
I am sure that a move will be made next year to remedy this situation. The Isles will probably decide if they want Halak to remain their starter or promote Greiss to the role if he continues to play so very well and essentially emerges as a Tim Thomas-type late bloomer.
If the Isles believe Greiss can assume the starting role, they may opt to trade Halak and re-allocate the savings elsewhere. Then, JF Berube probably becomes the top backup, at least for a season so as not to rush any younger prospects. If the Isles opt to continue with the Halak/Greiss tandem, then Berube will be traded or released; unless he ultimately sticks with the Isles, clears waivers and is assigned to the AHL.
While Berube loses a year of on-ice playing time this season, it could be a situation that ultimately benefits everyone in the future. This is just smart asset management. The Isles have opted to retain a $500,000-plus insurance policy and luxury (since they have the cap room as well) to keep Berube around in case anything happens to Halak or Greiss.
It seems that the Isles are slammed if they spend money to keep quality depth around (a la Berube to Halak/Greiss) then slammed by many of the same posters if they do not add said quality depth (with complaints about depth player signings like Zid as too cheap). To me, having Berube around as insurance is a good move. I never want to see the days of an old Nabokov/Poulin/Nilsson derailing a season again.
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I would assume Berube is staying, his sample size was not big enough for anyone to offer sheet him so he's going to be back. I don't really see a trade coming either.
KnishOfTheCrease
Chez Pierre Enthusiast
Why use the same goalie for 2 years? It's gonna be Sorokin/Soderstrom
Thanks for pointing it out. I went back and read through much of it but can stick with your post here. I agree in the reasoning behind keeping three now, and out of greed would be happy to do that next year. However, have you ever heard the expression, "Having three goaltenders ruins 2 of them?" Billy Smith was fond of that line and he is not alone. Next year is where you would run into the issue because you need to get them all games.
IMO, If Halak is that big of an injury concern and Greiss wins the starter job, plays well in the playoffs... man, that is one tough decision.
You know I forgot about Halak's injury history. I might be leaning towards moving him, recouping that 4.5 million, and spending it along with Okie's money on someone very very good for Tavares, or on defense.... moving his cap hit WOULD be a good thing assuming Greiss proves to be a starter. A big if indeed.
Off topic and not related to you Dan. I am surprised at the infantile thoughts of some about the goaltending situation. If that seems harsh consider the posts this is in reply to. It is generally considered a bad thing to carry 3. The safe route is to keep Greiss and Halak and move Berube. There is nothing bad in that, but three either deprives the rookie of important game time or pisses off Halak or Greiss, maybe both. There is nothing good to be had by that. But by all means, please flame on.
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PK Cronin
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- Feb 11, 2013
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If Halak is moved, you're only removing that salary for a year. Greiss would be due for a new contract, and he'd want the same kind of money/term I'd imagine. So I don't see the point really, considering Greiss could walk if the market is good for him elsewhere or something goes wrong. Not interested in moving a quality starter, who has had minor injuries over the years, to save one year worth of salary because our 3rd string goaltender has looked good in a handful of games.
KnishOfTheCrease
Chez Pierre Enthusiast
IF, big IF, it's possible to trade Halak I would do it in a heart beat. He makes 5M in his last year, too much for a goalie who needs 3 days rest. Having this extra salary is tremendous help for Isles internal cap. Much easier to make decisions and take opportunities for next season and I still think Okposo is gone.
That doesn't mean I would go with Greiss/Berube into next season, even if it's a cheap possibility. If I could get Reimer for Halak money I would consider it. Also UFA is Enroth who might not be interesting for most because of his size 5'10 but he has tremendous high danger zone save% and could be signed for 1.5M. And there will be other opportunities but most important for me would be to trade Halak. Then there's a good descision to be made which 2 are keepers Reimer/Enroth-Greiss-Berube. I would consider Greiss/Enroth a very good tandem, might be the cheapest in the league which would help in other areas and if one of them has a down year which can happen with every goalie it's not much money spend. Halak is just a very big burden to me, if there's a chance to trade him I wouldn't hesitate.
For now I would give Berube every 3rd game to keep both fresh.
That doesn't mean I would go with Greiss/Berube into next season, even if it's a cheap possibility. If I could get Reimer for Halak money I would consider it. Also UFA is Enroth who might not be interesting for most because of his size 5'10 but he has tremendous high danger zone save% and could be signed for 1.5M. And there will be other opportunities but most important for me would be to trade Halak. Then there's a good descision to be made which 2 are keepers Reimer/Enroth-Greiss-Berube. I would consider Greiss/Enroth a very good tandem, might be the cheapest in the league which would help in other areas and if one of them has a down year which can happen with every goalie it's not much money spend. Halak is just a very big burden to me, if there's a chance to trade him I wouldn't hesitate.
For now I would give Berube every 3rd game to keep both fresh.
