McKenzie: Moved: McKenzie: Oilers in on Barrie? (Moves by Colorado-- Merged)

[Soundwave]

They will. But there is no need to overpay. Newport is one of the hardest firms to deal with, so they need to be firm, otherwise they end up giving away deals like the O'reilly deal and the eberle deal, both newport clients and iffy contracts.

I honestly don't think either of those contracts is that iffy. They're both solid producers, Eberle basically has the same PPG and a higher goals per game than Taylor Hall the last two years.

 

[Draiskull]

is he legit ?
https://twitter.com/adater/status/750439864777138176?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

[s7ark]

is he legit ?
https://twitter.com/adater/status/750439864777138176?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

I believe he is legit. But i am not 100% on that

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I believe he is legit. But i am not 100% on that

It's Adrian Dater, the former Denver Post Avs beat writer. His rumors are about as good as Eklund, but when there's actual information to report, he's not bad.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

NHLPA put out a list of players who filed. Barrie is one of them. He can't be traded until after he gets a contract.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I honestly don't think either of those contracts is that iffy. They're both solid producers, Eberle basically has the same PPG and a higher goals per game than Taylor Hall the last two years.

Ror's deal was widely criticized here. Eberle's deal looked good at the time when people thought the cap would go up to 80+ by now but its not a good deal. Oilers got zero bridge discount for a RFA.

 

[taunting canadian]

NHLPA put out a list of players who filed. Barrie is one of them. He can't be traded until after he gets a contract.

So it turns out players with pending arbitration hearings can be traded, although they can no longer sign an offer sheet. Here's the example, Taylor Beck was traded from Nashville to Toronto last summer after filing for arbitration/before his hearing. He was signed one day later.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs-sign-taylor-beck-avoid-arbitration/

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Whoops. Look like Sakic has once again struck out with a Newport client. But I'm sure he'll get as good a return two years from now when he's a year away from UFA as he will today, right?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

So it turns out players with pending arbitration hearings can be traded, although they can no longer sign an offer sheet. Here's the example, Taylor Beck was traded from Nashville to Toronto last summer after filing for arbitration/before his hearing. He was signed one day later.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs-sign-taylor-beck-avoid-arbitration/

Right you are!

Barrie to Edmonton lives on!!

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Whoops. Look like Sakic has once again struck out with a Newport client. But I'm sure he'll get as good a return two years from now when he's a year away from UFA as he will today, right?

After ROR returned a steaming pile of garbage because he was 1 year from being a UFA, you're probably right...

 

[Bender]

Whoops. Look like Sakic has once again struck out with a Newport client. But I'm sure he'll get as good a return two years from now when he's a year away from UFA as he will today, right?

Yeah that or they'll trade him to Vancouver. (I sure love popcorn)

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

After ROR returned a steaming pile of garbage because he was 1 year from being a UFA, you're probably right...

It was a whole lot of nothing for today, and that's the entire problem. The Avalanche should, with a core like Duchene, Landeskog, MacKinnon, Varlamov and EJ, be competing right the hell now. Unfortunately, Sakic has made moves that have prevented the team from realizing their potential. I don't know how anyone can deny that.

Look, I love Burnaby Joe. He was one of my favorites during his career. I have a nice signed photo of him on the wall in my gym. He was the epitome of class and respect and everything else you'd want in a hockey player.

Unfortunately, however, I think what made him such a great player and person sort of detracts from his effectiveness as a GM. Agree or not, but I think his tremendous and timeless stateliness prohibits him from engaging in the knock-down beat-em-up style of negotiation you sometimes need to succeed in pro sports management.

I don't like Newport. I'm not a fan of what they do, personally. They're sharks. But to beat a shark, you need to eat 'em. Sakic got bit by O'Reilly's camp during that whole saga and the end result was the sort of lottery ticket bundle you'd get from your grandma on your birthday. Zadorov? May be a great D, who knows. Grigorenko? Much maligned at the time of the trade, looks okay now, but what's his upside really? Meanwhile, Compher still hasn't played an NHL game. That's not what you should expect out of a top-line player, but it was probably the best Sakic was going to get out of a guy who was facing UFA- a situation of his own creation.

I had hoped Sakic would have learned from that experience. You need to pay the kids these days. No bridges, no whittling down the dollars. They know what they're worth on an almost hourly basis thanks to the massive data crunching everyone does now. Barrie wants to get paid. If Sakic isn't comfortable with doing that, he needs to sort it out now- not two years from today. He'll only lose then, and for a player who won pretty much everything during his career, I'd hate to see him go down that way.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Whoops. Look like Sakic has once again struck out with a Newport client. But I'm sure he'll get as good a return two years from now when he's a year away from UFA as he will today, right?

He did great with the ROR deal. Better than losing barrie for pieces that doesnt fit and then be a bottom dweller next season. Being a bottom dweller destroys asset value (see taylor hall). I thought oiler fans would understand by now that making trades is partly value and party needs?

 

[Drij]

You know they can still sign before he hearing...

 

[Bender]

It was a whole lot of nothing for today, and that's the entire problem. The Avalanche should, with a core like Duchene, Landeskog, MacKinnon, Varlamov and EJ, be competing right the hell now. Unfortunately, Sakic has made moves that have prevented the team from realizing their potential. I don't know how anyone can deny that.

Look, I love Burnaby Joe. He was one of my favorites during his career. I have a nice signed photo of him on the wall in my gym. He was the epitome of class and respect and everything else you'd want in a hockey player.

Unfortunately, however, I think what made him such a great player and person sort of detracts from his effectiveness as a GM. Agree or not, but I think his tremendous and timeless stateliness prohibits him from engaging in the knock-down beat-em-up style of negotiation you sometimes need to succeed in pro sports management.

I don't like Newport. I'm not a fan of what they do, personally. They're sharks. But to beat a shark, you need to eat 'em. Sakic got bit by O'Reilly's camp during that whole saga and the end result was the sort of lottery ticket bundle you'd get from your grandma on your birthday. Zadorov? May be a great D, who knows. Grigorenko? Much maligned at the time of the trade, looks okay now, but what's his upside really? Meanwhile, Compher still hasn't played an NHL game. That's not what you should expect out of a top-line player, but it was probably the best Sakic was going to get out of a guy who was facing UFA- a situation of his own creation.

I had hoped Sakic would have learned from that experience. You need to pay the kids these days. No bridges, no whittling down the dollars. They know what they're worth on an almost hourly basis thanks to the massive data crunching everyone does now. Barrie wants to get paid. If Sakic isn't comfortable with doing that, he needs to sort it out now- not two years from today. He'll only lose then, and for a player who won pretty much everything during his career, I'd hate to see him go down that way.

So essentially, what you're saying is that if Leon Draisaitl wakes up one day after his ECL is up and starts taking to his agent and they decide that he's worth $9M per year, that well Chiarelli and oilers management should just pay up because that's what he wants?? Right??

Everyone applauds what that genius Tim Murray did over there in Buffalo but I personally cannot wait to see what happens if and when Jack Eichel out-produces ROR and comes off his entry level because that's going to be a hoot. Let's just say, I doubt very much that Eichel takes LESS than ROR.

ROR wanted $8M from the Avalanche and he was shipped out. He settled for a little less from the sabres and while he's a very good player, I don't believe he's worth that kind of money.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

He did great with the ROR deal. Better than losing barrie for pieces that doesnt fit and then be a bottom dweller next season.

But that's exactly what he did. Where's Compher fit? Is Grigorenko going to replace his production? You succinctly explained what he got back for ROR- a whole bunch of pieces that don't serve a contender's goal of, well, contending.

Being a bottom dweller destroys asset value (see taylor hall). I thought oiler fans would understand by now that making trades is partly value and party needs?

The moment you have to step into that territory, you know you've lost. This is about the Avalanche and Sakic. Deflecting is a sure sign your stance isn't the right one.

 

[slobbergob]

It was a whole lot of nothing for today, and that's the entire problem. The Avalanche should, with a core like Duchene, Landeskog, MacKinnon, Varlamov and EJ, be competing right the hell now. Unfortunately, Sakic has made moves that have prevented the team from realizing their potential. I don't know how anyone can deny that.

Look, I love Burnaby Joe. He was one of my favorites during his career. I have a nice signed photo of him on the wall in my gym. He was the epitome of class and respect and everything else you'd want in a hockey player.

Unfortunately, however, I think what made him such a great player and person sort of detracts from his effectiveness as a GM. Agree or not, but I think his tremendous and timeless stateliness prohibits him from engaging in the knock-down beat-em-up style of negotiation you sometimes need to succeed in pro sports management.

I don't like Newport. I'm not a fan of what they do, personally. They're sharks. But to beat a shark, you need to eat 'em. Sakic got bit by O'Reilly's camp during that whole saga and the end result was the sort of lottery ticket bundle you'd get from your grandma on your birthday. Zadorov? May be a great D, who knows. Grigorenko? Much maligned at the time of the trade, looks okay now, but what's his upside really? Meanwhile, Compher still hasn't played an NHL game. That's not what you should expect out of a top-line player, but it was probably the best Sakic was going to get out of a guy who was facing UFA- a situation of his own creation.

I had hoped Sakic would have learned from that experience. You need to pay the kids these days. No bridges, no whittling down the dollars. They know what they're worth on an almost hourly basis thanks to the massive data crunching everyone does now. Barrie wants to get paid. If Sakic isn't comfortable with doing that, he needs to sort it out now- not two years from today. He'll only lose then, and for a player who won pretty much everything during his career, I'd hate to see him go down that way.

You're judging a future's deal by what the players have done 1 year after? Does that not seem strange to you?

 

[Drij]

But that's exactly what he did. Where's Compher fit? Is Grigorenko going to replace his production? You succinctly explained what he got back for ROR- a whole bunch of pieces that don't serve a contender's goal of, well, contending.
.

Look at the pens and they pieces they acquired before their cup run. All the players where outcastes on their former teams.

 

[Jonas1235]

younger players get multi year deals in arbitration right? I see Colorado signing their RFA's but try to trade someone else under contract.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

So essentially, what you're saying is that if Leon Draisaitl wakes up one day after his ECL is up and starts taking to his agent and they decide that he's worth $9M per year, that well Chiarelli and oilers management should just pay up because that's what he wants?? Right??

It's about what fits the market. I will have zero qualms if Draisaitl demands the same extension the other kids got- 6 years+, $6 million. I'd even accept a slight bump due to cap inflation.

What I would NOT accept- what would piss me off- is if Chiarelli decided his star young power center was the hill to die on when it came to bridge contracts, and decided to make an example of him. Then you fall right into the pattern of build-'em-up-ship-'em-out that Sakic is in. You become a farm club for the other 29 NHL clubs.

Everyone applauds what that genius Tim Murray did over there in Buffalo but I personally cannot wait to see what happens if and when Jack Eichel out-produces ROR and comes off his entry level because that's going to be a hoot. Let's just say, I doubt very much that Eichel takes LESS than ROR.

I highly doubt the Sabres care what Eichel asks for if he manages to out-produce Eichel on his ELC. That's a great problem to have. In any case, he's one of those blank check kids, a borderline generational player. He'll get paid and Murray will be happy about it.

ROR wanted $8M from the Avalanche and he was shipped out. He settled for a little less from the sabres and while he's a very good player, I don't believe he's worth that kind of money.

And that there is the crux of the problem. You want what is best for your team, which is understandable. However, what's not is viewing the entire market through that myopic lens. Newport doesn't give a flip what you think is fair. They don't care. They'll go to any means to get what THEY want. Don't like it? Move Barrie now. Don't piddle around like Sakic did with ROR and return a pile of futures that don't help the Avs get any closer to contention in the next two years.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Lol what about when Chia traded away Kessel? If anyone has a history of letting young players get away l, its him and not Sakic.

 

[Homesick]

younger players get multi year deals in arbitration right? I see Colorado signing their RFA's but try to trade someone else under contract.

Colorado has the choice between a 1 and 2 year deal

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Look at the pens and they pieces they acquired before their cup run. All the players where outcastes on their former teams.

Right you are. Sheary was an FA signing. Rust was a third rounder a million years ago. Cullen was a bargain bin UFA pick-up. Ian Cole was had for a borderline NHLer and a 7th round pick. However- and this is the key- they didn't trade Evgeni Malkin to land any of those pieces; in fact, when it came time to supplement their stars, they went out and PAID futures to get a Phil Kessel.

The Avs took a step back for the 2+ seasons that followed the ROR trade, no question. They'll do the same if they mess around with Barrie.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Lol what about when Chia traded away Kessel? If anyone has a history of letting young players get away l, its him and not Sakic.

Again, you have to slam the GM of an unrelated team to deflect from the debate you're losing. If you had a point you'd have quoted the relevant section of my post and countered with something fact-based, or at least rooted in the present discussion.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

It was a whole lot of nothing for today, and that's the entire problem. The Avalanche should, with a core like Duchene, Landeskog, MacKinnon, Varlamov and EJ, be competing right the hell now. Unfortunately, Sakic has made moves that have prevented the team from realizing their potential. I don't know how anyone can deny that.

Look, I love Burnaby Joe. He was one of my favorites during his career. I have a nice signed photo of him on the wall in my gym. He was the epitome of class and respect and everything else you'd want in a hockey player.

Unfortunately, however, I think what made him such a great player and person sort of detracts from his effectiveness as a GM. Agree or not, but I think his tremendous and timeless stateliness prohibits him from engaging in the knock-down beat-em-up style of negotiation you sometimes need to succeed in pro sports management.

I don't like Newport. I'm not a fan of what they do, personally. They're sharks. But to beat a shark, you need to eat 'em. Sakic got bit by O'Reilly's camp during that whole saga and the end result was the sort of lottery ticket bundle you'd get from your grandma on your birthday. Zadorov? May be a great D, who knows. Grigorenko? Much maligned at the time of the trade, looks okay now, but what's his upside really? Meanwhile, Compher still hasn't played an NHL game. That's not what you should expect out of a top-line player, but it was probably the best Sakic was going to get out of a guy who was facing UFA- a situation of his own creation.

I had hoped Sakic would have learned from that experience. You need to pay the kids these days. No bridges, no whittling down the dollars. They know what they're worth on an almost hourly basis thanks to the massive data crunching everyone does now. Barrie wants to get paid. If Sakic isn't comfortable with doing that, he needs to sort it out now- not two years from today. He'll only lose then, and for a player who won pretty much everything during his career, I'd hate to see him go down that way.

Sakic wasn't the GM when the bad blood with ROR was created. LaCroix created that issue, and Sakic was left holding the bag. He signed ROR for another 2 years after the offer sheet, then traded him for significantly more than the non-Avs fans around here predicted.

And, I love the revisionist view of the ROR trade. Before the trade, almost everyone around here said that ROR would never return Zadorov+. Now, Zadorov, Grigorenko, Compher and the 31st OA pick (traded for the picks that became Greer and Morrison), is just a bunch of magic beans. And, nice touch trying to devalue Compher for not playing a NHL game, because he returned for his junior year of college.