Most Overrated Player by The Hockey Media?

[Big Phil]

I'm sure a lot of people on here will say Scott Niedermayer. Who's your answer?

First guy I thought of as well. Look, he's a HHOFer, and he has that whole "I've won everything at every level" thing going for him. Others are similar like that too. Mike Richards, Corey Perry, etc. But when he had that mini-retirement in 2007 I remember Pierre Maguire going nuts over him. We all know Maguire needs to be calmed down at different times and he gets carried away (usually it is fun to watch) but this time he was just on too much of a high. I remember him pegging Niedermayer as the 7th best defenseman of all-time and he even had the list. They showed it on TSN and he was trying to justify it as well. I can't remember off the top of my head the order of names but I do remember at the very least Orr, Bourque, Harvey, Lidstrom and Potvin were ahead of him. Not sure why but I think I remember Shore not even being on the list. But let's say someone like Robinson was the 6th guy. That means the likes of Coffey, Chelios, Park, Kelly, Fetisov, etc. are considered worse than him? That also means the normally top 25 types like MacInnis, Leetch, Horton, etc. are worse? Not to mention his teammates, Stevens and Pronger who no one would ever put underneath him. It just got silly. I've made good arguments why Blake is better than him. You can argue Duncan Keith had a better career than him. Larry Murphy is someone I definitely rate ahead of him. It was just hyperbole.

Other than that, other names that come to mind......................at one point it was PK Subban. Might fit into the "Roenick" mold of being a good player but an even more interesting personality and that elevates him more. But Roenick at least has a HHOF case.

Never got why Joe Nieuwendyk got so much love. Look, I liked him but he isn't the only player in NHL history to win a Cup with three different teams. Here are some names: Mark Recchi, Claude Lemieux, Mike Keane and Al Arbour. Am I missing some? He has some "Sportscenter" moments like Game 7 vs. Ottawa in 2004. And he is a perfect 2nd line centre if you want to win, but I don't think a team wins if he is your best forward. I like him in a Rod BrindAmour-type of way. Nothing wrong with it, but I am not putting him in the HHOF either.

Auston Matthews needs that big (and complete) superstar level season so that the media hype is worth it.

 

[sr edler]

Kucherov, he's been labeled by many a future HOF after two great years. Yes he might do it but considering how long it took him to become a ppg player he's going to have to stay around for a while and stop choking in the playoffs to even come close to where the media puts him.

I have no idea where the media puts Kucherov because I'm not consuming media, but what are you talking about? Stamkos is the playoff disappointment on Tampa, and it's not even particularly close at all. Kucherov (and Tyler Johnson, and Hedman, and probably that big goalie too who transferred to Dallas) was easily better than Stamkos in the playoffs when their team made the finals in 2015 and Stamkos was out-performed by rookie Teuvo Teräväinen. Since then Kucherov has had two pretty deep runs with Tampa where he's posted PPG numbers (36 points in 34 games). He's had 1 playoffs so far where he was sub par, in 2019. All HHOF players have playoff rounds where they've been lackluster.

A few years ago Toews was overrated by alot of media. Often considered a top 2-3 C in the NHL.

Toews was a top 2-3 C in the NHL for a little while.

 

[Hattrickkane88]

I have no idea where the media puts Kucherov because I'm not consuming media, but what are you talking about? Stamkos is the playoff disappointment on Tampa, and it's not even particularly close at all. Kucherov (and Tyler Johnson, and Hedman, and probably that big goalie too who transferred to Dallas) was easily better than Stamkos in the playoffs when their team made the finals in 2015 and Stamkos was out-performed by rookie Teuvo Teräväinen. Since then Kucherov has had two pretty deep runs with Tampa where he's posted PPG numbers (36 points in 34 games). He's had 1 playoffs so far where he was sub par, in 2019. All HHOF players have playoff rounds where they've been lackluster.



Toews was a top 2-3 C in the NHL for a little while.

Stamkos choking doesn't negate anyone else's choking, besides you can't just look at ppg as i could ask for his ppg in elimination games ( it's not pretty ) and i never said he's eliminated from the HOF, i just said he was a late starter to become a good player so he's going to have to stick around for a while and fix his playoff resume.

 

[frisco]

Doug Gilmour.

My Best-Carey

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Mark Messier.

Could do no wrong in his heyday.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

MAF easily.

Media and some fans love to talk about him like a future HOF'er and act like he was as important to the Pens as Crosby or Malkin. When really he was a passenger.

Only 1 of the 3 Cups were with him as the starter.

2016, he started 1 game in the playoffs while Murray was lights out.

2017, was a split load (15 for MAF, 11 for Murray). But it was Murray who played the 2nd half of the conference finals and the entire Cup finals.

He's never been a consistently elite/top 10 goalie in his career.

Sv% top 10: 5, 6, 10
GAA top 10: 3, 8, 9
Vezina: 4, 5, 7, 8
Never an AS-1 or AS-2 (best finish is AS-4)

People point to the wins, but a trash can would've racked up wins on those Penguins teams.

He's in the same mold as Joseph and Osgood. The exception being Joseph and Osgood have better individual stats and finishes than MAF

 

[Michael Farkas]

"Easily"

 

[Iapyi]

Niedermayer was definitely the first name to come to mind. I think with players like Toews and Matthews they get talked about so much as "overrated" that it kind of comes around to the other side.

Niedermayer seemed to have that golden boy moniker his whole career, he was always the guy that was referenced as the prime example of a winner, and I think that elevated his status among players where he realistically had no business being among.

I think Phil Esposito gets overrated a lot as well. There's real legitimacy to being a product of Orr IMO.

I actually think he gets underrated. I remember watching him play and he was a serious force who needed to be accounted for.

No he didn't. Once Orr got injured he was shipped out to NY that year and never even got remotely close to his totals again.

The 1968/69 season is the best argument, but Orr still broke the record for points by a D-man that year.

He didn't "get shipped out" in 74 as you are saying. He was traded after 12 games during the 75-76 season.

 

[JackSlater]

Niedermayer, not Rob.

I'll throw out Chara too. I don't think that an equally effective defenceman who didn't have the novelty of Chara's height would get nearly as much praise, particularly after he peaked.

 

[JianYang]

I know Toews gets crapped on alot, but one thing virtually all cup winners have in common is that they have excellent centers..... Sometimes two excellent centers.

Toews was the their best center for those 3 cups in 6 years. I think by the time he got his 3 cups, he put on a ton of mileage due to the way he played, so I think his play leveled off at an earlier age, but there was a time when I regarded him as one of the very best centers in the game.

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

Dave Keon, when he's ranked by many as the best Leaf ever. He's fortunate to be in the top 5.

Thats... interesting, can you expand on that theory?

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

Toews was a top 2-3 C in the NHL for a little while.

I think this is the most correct interpretation of Toews

 

[WetcoastOrca]

One thing that a lot of these so called overrated players have in common is that they were captains of their teams and perceived as leaders of successful teams.
Keon, Toews, Chara etc. Probably throw in Henri Richard for Montreal too. Libden for the Canucks. Etc. Probably hard to put a value on leadership unless you’re on the team. Some people mockingly refer to it as intangibles but I think there is some value there even if it’s not quantifiable.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Here we go again....

Phil Esposito could score with Orr or without him. He became the first ever 100 point scorer(123) before Orr had his offensive breakthrough...and had a Hart-Ross season in '74, when Orr was injured.

Agreed. Espo was one of the first to make the front of the net his home office in an era where very few could take that kind of punishment. The original Canada-Russia series really cemented his legacy as he was imo the best player on either team of superstars and showed just what a great playmaker and leader he could be.
It took a lot of skill to play the way he did but the fact he was not a great skater and scored a lot of so-called garbage goals means some people just don’t see the skills he had.

 

[MS]

I think this is the most correct interpretation of Toews

Crosby and Malkin have been around for Toews’ entire career so he has never been a top-2 center.

Circa 2012, he peaked as part of a group #3-10 ish in the league including Kopitar, Getzlaf, Bergeron, Claude Giroux, Henrik Sedin, and an aging Datsyuk. But he was only in that group for a very short time.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

thinking about the defenceman list, niedermayer is more overrated right now because his career is still fresh. but in the long run, it'll go back to being brian leetch again

don't get me wrong, he was absolutely a great great player and a tier above niedermayer but that guy gets a bump like no one else

 

[scott clam]

Doug Gilmour.

My Best-Carey

Mark Messier.

Could do no wrong in his heyday.

I've posted about this topic before, but I think that while Gilmour's Leaf days can be a bit overrated(being overrated is just inevitable for Leaf players) he really flew under the radar for years in St. Louis and Calgary, and to me his '87 season is criminally underrated and largely forgotten. Most Leaf fans probably don't even know he has a cup with Calgary.

As a player I don't think Messier is really overrated. By some people yes, but he was awesome for a really effing long time.

It's when people gush about his "leadership"(and don't get me wrong he was a great Captain in Edmonton and Manhattan, obviously) that I got to get the hell out of there. You simply can not be the "greatest leader in sports" and pull the type of shit he did in Vancouver. His play wasn't terrible at all, but he "lead" that team like an asshole. His skills may have declined, but his ego sure didn't.

Also, missing the playoffs 7 years in a row to end a career is really bad for a guy who was once considered the ultimate playoff warrior.

 

[scott clam]

Agreed. Espo was one of the first to make the front of the net his home office in an era where very few could take that kind of punishment. The original Canada-Russia series really cemented his legacy as he was imo the best player on either team of superstars and showed just what a great playmaker and leader he could be.
It took a lot of skill to play the way he did but the fact he was not a great skater and scored a lot of so-called garbage goals means some people just don’t see the skills he had.

Agreed, Phil was just one of a kind. I think people have a hard time ranking him because he's so different from the traditional centre, and don't really know how to appreciate him.

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

I'll throw out Chara too. I don't think that an equally effective defenceman who didn't have the novelty of Chara's height would get nearly as much praise, particularly after he peaked.

Yeah, but half of his effectiveness as a defenceman is having the longest reach of anybody on the ice.

And its not like there werent a surplus of 6'7 monsters on defence coming out of the lockout that could have become the same player if they had the basic hockey skills to do what Chara does in addition to being enormous

 

[MS]

thinking about the defenceman list, niedermayer is more overrated right now because his career is still fresh. but in the long run, it'll go back to being brian leetch again

don't get me wrong, he was absolutely a great great player and a tier above niedermayer but that guy gets a bump like no one else

Yeah, lost in the Niedermayer discussion of that recent list is the fact that 3x Norris finalist Leetch finished ahead of 5x Norris finalist Al MacInnis and 7x Norris finalist Brad Park.

Leetch and MacInnis have incredibly similar peak value (right down to the single 100 point season and the identical Conn Smythe playoff performances) but MacInnis’ duration of elite play and career value easily come out ahead of Leetch. MacInnis’ defensive game aged well and even improved with age while Leetch’s did the opposite.

 

[Sentinel]

I think Phil Esposito gets overrated a lot as well. There's real legitimacy to being a product of Orr IMO.

Underrated, if anything. He beat Orr twice for the Hart and set a bunch of records thought unthinkable before Gretzky.

 

[Sentinel]

Jonathan Toews, by a quite large margin, it was quite funny when media was calling him the best player in the world when he was not even the best player on his own team.

Same can be applied to Crosby, word for word.

 

[JackSlater]

Yeah, but half of his effectiveness as a defenceman is having the longest reach of anybody on the ice.

And its not like there werent a surplus of 6'7 monsters on defence coming out of the lockout that could have become the same player if they had the basic hockey skills to do what Chara does in addition to being enormous

That has nothing to do with what I said. I found that many media members sort of double dipped when it came to Chara and would praise his defence, justly, and then his size as if his size was not the primary asset he brought defensively. An equally effective defenceman with average defenceman size would only get the praise once. I also found it bizarre how often players would use their speed to skate around Chara (post-2010 anyway) to generate a chance and the announcers would act like it was a shocking event even though we'd seen it multiple times that very game. Finally, his voting record in Norris and all star records flatters him. He placed ahead of Pronger several times when Pronger was the better player and I'll never understand his second place Norris finish in 2014.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

Jonathan Toews, by a quite large margin, it was quite funny when media was calling him the best player in the world when he was not even the best player on his own team.

Yeah, Duncan Keith was underrated.

 

[Cyclones21]

If you listen to Spittin Chicklets regularly, Scott Niedermayer has been praised numerous times. (Scott Gomez and Chris Pronger in particular. If the thread was underrated - then Niedermayer is a likely answer.