Post-Game Talk: Morgan Rielly: the Light in the 9th straight Loss, 1-0 to Philly

[HarrisonFord]

Horacek's ice time management is really confusing to me.

On the one hand, it's good in the fact that last night he gives Rielly 20+mins, nobody is under 7 minutes of ice time, Holland had 17 minutes, and Clarkson is under 10 minutes.

On the other hand, Santorelli is also under 10 minutes, Winnik is playing 17 minutes (I thought he had one of his worst games as a Leaf last night) and Komarov only had just under 14 minutes.

 

[Mess]

Toronto Maple Leafs Playoff Chances

Lost to Philadelphia 0-1, playoff odds down 1 to 0.8%

 

[ULF_55]

Kessel hasn't been our best player since back in December. Losing or not, he should still be your best player.
He can't make the playoffs with Bozak/Phaneuf/Lupul etc. How is he going to make it without because there is really nothing you can trade these guys for that is going to make a difference. They will return either picks, other cap dumps or projects. We will still have the same problems moving the other guys, no no. 1 C or D, questionable compete, lack of winning battles, lack of higher end organizational depth.
If Kessel doesn't score goals, there is absolutely nothing I like about his game. At all. Like it or not he is the face of the franchise and the franchise needs to change. Badly.
Kessel (a la Rick Nash) is the only player who will get you a higher return to help put higher quality pieces in the organization.
It's time to move on from the 3 of Bozak/Kessel/Phaneuf of which are associated (right or wrong) with the annual collapses. Nashville has some nice pieces, we are poised to draft a quality center, make the moves.

A number of us argued this issue over the summer, and all we ever got was Kessel is not a problem.

Perhaps he isn't, but outside of Kessel it is obvious there isn't anyone who has looked good outside of Rielly the last little while. Bernier is a brain dead keeper, but he is the best they have and they need someone in net.

If Kessel doesn't produce the team has no one else capable of stepping up, that's clear to everyone today. If there was any doubt that's erased.

So, as I was in the summer, I remain today, the team well defended by some who never accept the reality, needs to be redone, and there is no one outside of Kessel, Rielly, or Bernier who I'd worry about moving.

And I'd move Kessel today for a good return and not look back. I'd move anyone else for prospects and picks and try and grab some character, coachable, skilled assets you can build with.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

A number of us argued this issue over the summer, and all we ever got was Kessel is not a problem.

Perhaps he isn't, but outside of Kessel it is obvious there isn't anyone who has looked good outside of Rielly the last little while. Bernier is a brain dead keeper, but he is the best they have and they need someone in net.

If Kessel doesn't produce the team has no one else capable of stepping up, that's clear to everyone today. If there was any doubt that's erased.

So, as I was in the summer, I remain today, the team well defended by some who never accept the reality, needs to be redone, and there is no one outside of Kessel, Rielly, or Bernier who I'd worry about moving.

And I'd move Kessel today for a good return and not look back. I'd move anyone else for prospects and picks and try and grab some character, coachable, skilled assets you can build with.

And with this said, I would move Kessel before his play starts declining and we have a diminished asset. I can imagine him when he hits 30, he doesn't take care of his body, when the legs go, his game will slide.

Burke gave this team an elite offensive asset, Lebrun said teams were 100% interested in Kessel. He's 27, when his game slides hopefully we will be becoming a good team by then. He is simply the wrong player for this team at the moment.

But we can turn him into a key piece of a rebuild, and we will get more from him than Columbus got for Nash. And the Blue Jackets are looking better today. Same with Calgary when they turned the page on Iginla. It won't be the end of the world if Kessel is dealt.

 

[Trapper]

And with this said, I would move Kessel before his play starts declining and we have a diminished asset. I can imagine him when he hits 30, he doesn't take care of his body, when the legs go, his game will slide.

Burke gave this team an elite offensive asset, Lebrun said teams were 100% interested in Kessel. He's 27, when his game slides hopefully we will be becoming a good team by then. He is simply the wrong player for this team at the moment.

But we can turn him into a key piece of a rebuild, and we will get more from him than Columbus got for Nash. And the Blue Jackets are looking better today. Same with Calgary when they turned the page on Iginla. It won't be the end of the world if Kessel is dealt.

We are surviving without Phaneuf. We are really no better and no worse. We will survive without Kessel but we just may get some excellent pieces back and change the entire culture in the process. The last 6 years Leafs need to be erased.

 

[Erdinger]

We are surviving without Phaneuf. We are really no better and no worse. We will survive without Kessel but we just may get some excellent pieces back and change the entire culture in the process. The last 6 years Leafs need to be erased.

I'm genuinely surprised as well at how little he has been missed.

 

[RLF]

We are surviving without Phaneuf. We are really no better and no worse. We will survive without Kessel but we just may get some excellent pieces back and change the entire culture in the process. The last 6 years Leafs need to be erased.

This really shouldn't surprise people though. Should it? I have always been surprised to hear so much "wait to see how bad this defence will look without Dion". It's not that Dion is bad, he's a solid D, but he's not Doughty, Weber(even though some have compared Dion to Weber) etc. Kessel is a sniper off the rush, not necessary to win a cup. A nice asset, but not necessary.

 

[Wendelstache]

I'm genuinely surprised as well at how little he has been missed.

Despite the win/loss record the last few games, the defense does not look out of place since Phaneuf went down.

Rielly has showed more in the last few games of being a true #1D than Dion ever did.

 

[Pyrophorus]

And that starts with Phaneuf. I'm not a hater by any means, but I find it unacceptable that the guy who disappoints the most in every single collapse is the guy who is team captain. It's become a very unflattering pattern.

This is me. I'm not a hater either, but he really is getting to be the lower end of dmen, who don't produce, and I mean either physicality (Polak) or offensively (Franson).

Even last season I was hoping he wouldn't be re-signed.

 

[Leafspoison*]

This attitude on the bench of heads down, feeling sorry for themselves isnt good for young guys like Rielly. Sad to see really, its not even the loses anymore, this team is just totally demoralized.

I agree. I am off the tank wagon. A good pick is just hurting our young guys. They have pride and a heart. I want them to win. These loses are piling up on their self esteem. They are humans.

Its mostly Nonis's fault this is happening to them. Its an absolute shame to see the look in Rielly's, Kadri's, Hollands eyes etc.

They have the look of utter despair then they have to go face the media at such a young age with so much hope and adversity placed squarely on their shoulders and they have a captain that could care less. Someone has to take them under their arm and let them know that things will be ok and to just keep their chins up.

One pick is hurting 6 or 7 players.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

One thing lost here is the fact the Leafs did play a pretty good game at least defensively. The younger D played pretty well especially Rielly.

 

[Smif]

This is me. I'm not a hater either, but he really is getting to be the lower end of dmen, who don't produce, and I mean either physicality (Polak) or offensively (Franson).

Even last season I was hoping he wouldn't be re-signed.

Same. I've actually been one to try and convince others to keep Phaneuf mainly because I thought he was taking on the big assignments and essentially insulating the younger D.

 

[Al14]

Despite the win/loss record the last few games, the defense does not look out of place since Phaneuf went down.

Rielly has showed more in the last few games of being a true #1D than Dion ever did.

 

[Wendel17]

I'm honestly not sure that motivating this group is possible. I don't see any coach make Kessel do things he doesn't want to, for example.

I'm not sure that motivation is the right thing to call out either. They might very well be motivated up over their ears, but with how things are going right now nothing they do will come off naturally. When you get frozen like that, it is easily mistaken for just not working.

Agreed. Kessel needs to move on. It will do him a world of good. I look back at how well Gaborik did when he was moved to LA, and I think Kessel would benefit going to a similar situation.

 

[Wendel17]

Same. I've actually been one to try and convince others to keep Phaneuf mainly because I thought he was taking on the big assignments and essentially insulating the younger D.

That's the only value Phaneuf brings to the team, as an insulator. But you have to wonder, is his inability to be a true #1 hurting the team more than his ability to insulate?

 

[Wendel17]

A number of us argued this issue over the summer, and all we ever got was Kessel is not a problem.

Perhaps he isn't, but outside of Kessel it is obvious there isn't anyone who has looked good outside of Rielly the last little while. Bernier is a brain dead keeper, but he is the best they have and they need someone in net.

If Kessel doesn't produce the team has no one else capable of stepping up, that's clear to everyone today. If there was any doubt that's erased.

So, as I was in the summer, I remain today, the team well defended by some who never accept the reality, needs to be redone, and there is no one outside of Kessel, Rielly, or Bernier who I'd worry about moving.

And I'd move Kessel today for a good return and not look back. I'd move anyone else for prospects and picks and try and grab some character, coachable, skilled assets you can build with.

I don't disagree with anything you've said. I would just add that I would not rush to dump anyone and everyone as a means to 'blow it up'. If this team continues to lose not only this year then into next year, then I would just keep them together and only make a trade if we actually got something decent. I look back to Burke and Fletcher dumping players and getting nothing meaningful back (Poni for Caputi comes to mind) and we all can see how our poor asset management hurt us then, and it could again if we don't play our cards right.

As much as we are not happy with the players on this roster, they do have value. Phaneuf, Lupul, Bozak, etc, all fit on stronger teams quite nicely. Shanahan needs to bide his time and only make a deal that makes sense and is not knee jerk or for the sake of it.

 

[Wendel17]

And with this said, I would move Kessel before his play starts declining and we have a diminished asset. I can imagine him when he hits 30, he doesn't take care of his body, when the legs go, his game will slide.

Burke gave this team an elite offensive asset, Lebrun said teams were 100% interested in Kessel. He's 27, when his game slides hopefully we will be becoming a good team by then. He is simply the wrong player for this team at the moment.

But we can turn him into a key piece of a rebuild, and we will get more from him than Columbus got for Nash. And the Blue Jackets are looking better today. Same with Calgary when they turned the page on Iginla. It won't be the end of the world if Kessel is dealt.

Kessel is not going to be any better than he is today. We won't be a contender for at least 5 years assuming they actually do it right. So I agree that now is the time to deal him. I would love nothing more than to pry Mackinnon away from Colorado. With Duchene and O'Reilly they could afford to let him go if the price were right. I'd give them anything on the roster minus Rielly.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

Kessel is not going to be any better than he is today. We won't be a contender for at least 5 years assuming they actually do it right. So I agree that now is the time to deal him. I would love nothing more than to pry Mackinnon away from Colorado. With Duchene and O'Reilly they could afford to let him go if the price were right. I'd give them anything on the roster minus Rielly.

Again... you aren't seeing the big picture here. Yes I agree, Kessel should be moved now but its not realistic either, let me explain. Kessel is making 8M a season/8 years not many teams can afford that, he also has a NTC that limits it to 8 teams he's willing to be dealt to, hen there's the negoations between the the two clubs.

As for Coloardo, get real bud we likely aren't getting Duchene for Kessel (! If anything Colarado parts with ROR long before they part with Duchene, and besides scoring isnt an issue for them but defence is... IF Duchence goes its to land a potentially elite bluleiner, not a one dimensional scorer lol.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Again... you aren't seeing the big picture here. Yes I agree, Kessel should be moved now but its not realistic either, let me explain. Kessel is making 8M a season/8 years not many teams can afford that, he also has a NTC that limits it to 8 teams he's willing to be dealt to, hen there's the negoations between the the two clubs.

As for Coloardo, get real bud we likely aren't getting Duchene for Kessel (! If anything Colarado parts with ROR long before they part with Duchene, and besides scoring isnt an issue for them but defence is... IF Duchence goes its to land a potentially elite bluleiner, not a one dimensional scorer lol.

There's these things called players. Other teams have them as well. They can come back in a trade for Kessel. Crazy thing is they also are getting paid and count towards the cap. Whether it be a cap dump or a decent player they are allowed to be traded.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

There's these things called players. Other teams have them as well. They can come back in a trade for Kessel. Crazy thing is they also are getting paid and count towards the cap. Whether it be a cap dump or a decent player they are allowed to be traded.

Colarado has NO problems scoring, why would they deal for a scorer when they badly need help on the blueline? If anything they move a key piece to help solidfy the back end, not up front.

 

[King Mapes]

Toronto Maple Leafs Playoff Chances

Lost to Philadelphia 0-1, playoff odds down 1 to 0.8%

So... You're saying there's a chance?

 

[Joey Hoser]

I'm genuinely surprised as well at how little he has been missed.

What? We are 1-8-1 in our last ten.

We may still suck if we get him back, but we definitely suck without him.

 

[080]

Despite the win/loss record the last few games, the defense does not look out of place since Phaneuf went down.

Rielly has showed more in the last few games of being a true #1D than Dion ever did.

This.

I was fully expecting our D to be in shambles. But to be honest, at this point I don`t see much difference between someone like Granberg or Holzer and Phaneuf. If you take the names off the sweaters, there isn`t a lot of difference.

 

[080]

What? We are 1-8-1 in our last ten.

We may still suck if we get him back, but we definitely suck without him.

Phaneuf brings little offense and we`ve done just fine defensively.

 

[diceman934]

What? We are 1-8-1 in our last ten.

We may still suck if we get him back, but we definitely suck without him.

Dion has been on the ice for more goals against then any other D man on Toronto since the slide has started....the only thing we are missing ....is more PK time as he is good for at least one stupid penalty a game.

Do we miss a minus 18 in his last 16 games?