GDT: More Dad Jokes! - Caps @ Devils - 1 PM - MSG+

[Spoiled Bratt]

No I don't. I think the attention to detail overall has been missing and particularly from the forwards for last two years....same stuff was happening last year and our defense as whole was taking zero chances so it wasn't as bad, but the structure was a problem last year.

So the talent, or lack of talent should I say, has no barring whatsoever with our bad defensive play?

Why make trades to improve our team when a simple system can turn us into Stanley cup contenders. Must be Kovalchuk's fault somehow

 

[Bleedred]

I give Hynes credit for having a respectable defensive system and I do think he was given the worst bottom 6 in the history of hockey, which was not his fault.

I don't give him credit for getting Cory to play just as good as he did for the previous 5 years of his career, before Hynes even had an NHL job. Nor do I give him any credit for getting an established scorer like Mike Cammalleri to score all those points.

That's really reaching.

Schneider had the best save percentage in the NHL while Hynes was coaching in WBS for the AHL Pens. Cammalleri has been an established NHL scorer even before Hynes was an AHL head coach.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I give Hynes credit for having a respectable defensive system and I do think he was given the worst bottom 6 in the history of hockey, which was not his fault.

I don't give him credit for getting Cory to play just as good as he did for the previous 5 years of his career, before Hynes even had an NHL job. Nor do I give him any credit for getting an established scorer like Mike Cammalleri to score all those points.

That's really reaching.

Schneider had the best save percentage in the NHL while Hynes was coaching in WBS for the AHL Pens. Cammalleri has been an established NHL scorer even before Hynes was an AHL head coach.

I'm not saying that he turned Cory or Mike into the players they are today but you have to pair your top sniper with the proper linemates and you also have to play him in a system that meshes well with his main qualities.

We can't have it both ways. When our players are producing it's on the player(s) but when they're struggling, it's on the coach?

 

[Bleedred]

I'm not saying that he turned Cory or Mike into the players they are today but you have to pair your top sniper with the proper linemates and you also have to play him in a system that meshes well with his main qualities.

We can't have it both ways. When our players are producing it's on the player(s) but when they're struggling, it's on the coach?

But even now, aside from Cory, those players are not really struggling.

Cammalleri has been quiet for a while now, but he's streaky and he'll likely score a bunch to even the numbers out a bit. He was cold to start the season too.

I don't blame Hynes for Cory so much, I just think Cory is allowing more shots that he was stopping last year. If only Cory's GAA was up and his save percentage was around the same, I'd blame Hynes more than Cory. As the GAA would be a direct result to the team having really no system anymore and allowing a zillion shots per game. We're allowing a zillion shots per game, which the coaching staff should get blame on, considering last year we were not this bad.

But Cory is struggling with confidence right now.

 

[JimEIV]

So the talent, or lack of talent should I say, has no barring whatsoever with our bad defensive play?

Must be Kovalchuk's fault somehow

Its funny you bring up that name because he is perfect example of how meaningless talent can be and from the same time you look at player like Mark Fayne and you see how useful a talentless player can be when coached well, given a clearly defined role that they can achieve in....that is coaching. Every single one of our current defensemen are better than Fayne right now except for Auvitu and none are performing half as well as he did while was here....think about that for a moment.

Look when a new coach comes in there is always a period of confusion, a period the team needs to adjust....personally I think it is 20 to 30 games but as a fan, I like to give them 40... they never have progressed one bit from the very beginning. Not even a little.

 

[JimEIV]

It used to crack me up when Mike Keenan would pull a goalie after 1 goal.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

But even now, aside from Cory, those players are not really struggling.

Cammalleri has been quiet for a while now, but he's streaky and he'll likely score a bunch to even the numbers out a bit. He was cold to start the season too.

I don't blame Hynes for Cory so much, I just think Cory is allowing more shots that he was stopping last year. If only Cory's GAA was up and his save percentage was around the same, I'd blame Hynes more than Cory. As the GAA would be a direct result to the team having really no system anymore and allowing a zillion shots per game. We're allowing a zillion shots per game, which the coaching staff should get blame on, considering last year we were not this bad.

But Cory is struggling with confidence right now.

But we have to look at why we're giving up more shots then last year. The main reason is the departure of Larsson, who we replaced with a bum who wasn't going to get a contract by a NHL team in Quincey and Lovejoy, a ideal 3rd pairing d-man.

You and I know that the Greene-Larsson pairing were eating a lot of our big minutes and ultimately, we gave Severson a bigger role but I'm not certain that Greene is able to cover for a more offensive minded player like Damon. Larsson and Greene didn't take many chances and are both defensively minded more then anything else, making it easier for both of them at the same time. We tried to pair Lovejoy with Greene at times but that didn't work cause Lovejoy is just too slow to keep up with the oppositions top players.

We're in a rebuild, it'll take time and Shero has a timetable in place and he's no idiot, he clearly knows that our roster is flaud ATM and it would surprise me if he pulled the plug on his hand pick choice to run his ship.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

Its funny you bring up that name because he is perfect example of how meaningless talent can be and from the same time you look at player like Mark Fayne and you see how useful a talentless player can be when coached well, given a clearly defined role that they can achieve in....that is coaching. Every single one of our current defensemen are better than Fayne right now except for Auvitu and none are performing half as well as he did while was here....think about that for a moment.

Look when a new coach comes in there is always a period of confusion, a period the team needs to adjust....personally I think it is 20 to 30 games but as a fan, I like to give them 40... they never have progressed one bit from the very beginning. Not even a little.

It's like you have tunnel vision. You often make good points but conveniently forget easy and pretty obvious points that would go against your original statements.

Look at the roster turnover we had to deal with, look at the talent we lost on the backend, look at how many rookies are currently playing on our roster. All those variables are going to effect the play by our team.

New linemates, new system, no defensive core will equal tthe production we're seeing ATM

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

I think people put too much stock into the coach providing motivation. I think it's more their job to come up with a gameplan, put the players out there to execute it, and make adjustments accordingly. And in those areas I think there's fair criticism when it comes to Hynes. The motivation stuff is more on the players IMO.

I think all those things impact motivation. If a player knows a system isn't working no matter how hard he tries, how long is he going to try hard? And hard work in executing a non-functioning system isn't very useful anyway.

 

[guitarguyvic]

It's like you have tunnel vision. You often make good points but conveniently forget easy and pretty obvious points that would go against your original statements.

Look at the roster turnover we had to deal with, look at the talent we lost on the backend, look at how many rookies are currently playing on our roster. All those variables are going to effect the play by our team.

New linemates, new system, no defensive core will equal tthe production we're seeing ATM

This is aug absurd excuse making. The league has more parity than ever...there shouldn't be a team in the league that accepts giving up four goals per game on a regular basis, regardless of talent level. Especially when team defense is one of the most coachable aspects of NHL hockey.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Argument can be made that a player will give up after skating in circles over and over.

 

[MadDevil]

A small group tried to use that logic when Deboer was public enemy number one here and we were constantly told we were wrong.

It's funny because the same kind of things that are being said about Hynes now were also said about DeBoer when people turned on him. System doesn't work, he doesn't know how to coach kids, makes terrible personnel decisions, etc. Hell, I remember some people descrediting the 2012 run because we almost lost to Florida in the first round. At some point if the narrative is the same for two coaches in a row, maybe the problem isn't as much on coaching as we think?

 

[Triumph]

This is aug absurd excuse making. The league has more parity than ever...there shouldn't be a team in the league that accepts giving up four goals per game on a regular basis, regardless of talent level. Especially when team defense is one of the most coachable aspects of NHL hockey.

When the defense is bad and the goalie is playing bad, 4 goals a game sounds about right. Now can the Devils play better than this? Absolutely. I really don't think they played that poorly yesterday, though.

They do need to think about sitting certain players. Moore was one on that list, unfortunately now he's hurt. DSP is another, he's just been awful. Wood is another, he doesn't belong in the NHL right now.

 

[JimEIV]

When the defense is bad and the goalie is playing bad, 4 goals a game sounds about right. Now can the Devils play better than this? Absolutely. I really don't think they played that poorly yesterday, though.

They do need to think about sitting certain players. Moore was one on that list, unfortunately now he's hurt. DSP is another, he's just been awful. Wood is another, he doesn't belong in the NHL right now.

I think this is a good start...but they also need to dumb down the system and go back to basics. Eliminate any chance taking until they are playing more sound. It seems to me that in an attempt to generate more that are forgetting everything else.

Forget the Dmen staying in the offensive zone for that extra second...they have generated more this season but the wheels fell off because of this chance taking....they tried to sprint before they learned to walk. The forwards have to come back deeper to help out and stop standing high above the hash marks waiting for the puck....the defense needs to be 5 people and the goalie not just 2 Dmen with center support.

Our wingers really need to do a better job in their own zone....the old mantra is if you take care of your own zone the offense will take care of itself. It's true.

 

[guitarguyvic]

When the defense is bad and the goalie is playing bad, 4 goals a game sounds about right. Now can the Devils play better than this? Absolutely. I really don't think they played that poorly yesterday, though.

They do need to think about sitting certain players. Moore was one on that list, unfortunately now he's hurt. DSP is another, he's just been awful. Wood is another, he doesn't belong in the NHL right now.

I don't give a crap how talentless the D is. A competent defensive structur backstopped by a goalie whose career numbers are stellar should never even sniff anywhere near 4 GA per game.

I mean people are really trying to make the case that there is a competent defensive scheme in place and it's just all six D men and nearly every forward on the team that are butchering it on a nightly basis? That is some outrageous analysis.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I don't give a crap how talentless the D is. A competent defensive structur backstopped by a goalie whose career numbers are stellar should never even sniff anywhere near 4 GA per game.

I mean people are really trying to make the case that there is a competent defensive scheme in place and it's just all six D men and nearly every forward on the team that are butchering it on a nightly basis? That is some outrageous analysis.

They can play a "prevent" system in our zone, we'll still lose 3-1 or 2-0. News flash... Teams with no talent aren't on top of the standings.

How is that so hard to understand is beyond me.

 

[JimEIV]

They can play a "prevent" system in our zone, we'll still lose 3-1 or 2-0. News flash... Teams with no talent aren't on top of the standings.

How is that so hard to understand is beyond me.

Sometimes it's necessary to take a step back....not play "prevent" but get your guys on the same page....you see a lot of coaches do it. They tighten the leash until the team or even specific players execute the way they should. Then they get a little more leash or responsibility.

 

[tailfins]

I think this is a good start...but they also need to dumb down the system and go back to basics. Eliminate any chance taking until they are playing more sound. It seems to me that in an attempt to generate more that are forgetting everything else.

Forget the Dmen staying in the offensive zone for that extra second...they have generated more this season but the wheels fell off because of this chance taking....they tried to sprint before they learned to walk. The forwards have to come back deeper to help out and stop standing high above the hash marks waiting for the puck....the defense needs to be 5 people and the goalie not just 2 Dmen with center support.

Our wingers really need to do a better job in their own zone....the old mantra is if you take care of your own zone the offense will take care of itself. It's true.

QFT. Thank you.

 

[guitarguyvic]

They can play a "prevent" system in our zone, we'll still lose 3-1 or 2-0. News flash... Teams with no talent aren't on top of the standings.

How is that so hard to understand is beyond me.

Wait wait wait...so you admit that if they implement a more sound defensive system like last year they will give up less goals, but the offensive output will be just as bad as last year despite getting rid of several useless forwards and upgrading the top 6 with Hall and PAP? Sure OK.

How about this for a crazy experiment. How about the staff institutes some kind of competent strategy for team D (you know, a major aspect of hockey that is absolutely coachable) where we don't get shelled every single night, then we see where this slightly improved top 6 takes us? Crazy idea I know, just throwing it out there.

 

[tailfins]

They can play a "prevent" system in our zone, we'll still lose 3-1 or 2-0. News flash... Teams with no talent aren't on top of the standings.

How is that so hard to understand is beyond me.

Not sure what your point is about losing 2-0 or 3-1.

The Devils recent scores are:

6-2 loss
2-1 shootout win
5-2 loss
4-1 loss
4-0 win
5-1 loss
3-2 shoutout loss
3-1 loss
5-0 loss
5-2 loss

I could keep going.

 

[Triumph]

I don't give a crap how talentless the D is. A competent defensive structur backstopped by a goalie whose career numbers are stellar should never even sniff anywhere near 4 GA per game.

I mean people are really trying to make the case that there is a competent defensive scheme in place and it's just all six D men and nearly every forward on the team that are butchering it on a nightly basis? That is some outrageous analysis.

Again, you seem to be ignoring that Cory Schneider has played terribly over this stretch. He's been awful. The defense is also awful. So yes, when a goalie plays bad in front of a bad defense, 4 GA sounds about right.

They also cannot undo the past. If you give up 4 goals a game for 12 games and then give up 3 in game 13, well guess what, you're averaging 3.92 goals against for that stretch.

Since the Rangers game on 12/18 I think things have changed. They're giving up exactly 30 shots per 60 since then which is on the high side but isn't outrageous, especially not when you consider the competition - 7 teams all currently in the playoffs. We'll see what happens when they get some leads - certainly against Washington on Tuesday they played poorly.

They do have some really bad personnel though. Miles Wood is like a bigger, faster Tedenby out there, minus the puck skills - he is a giant anchor right now, and the GM and coach have to recognize this, fast.

 

[Bleedred]

THE OFFENSE IS ALREADY AS BAD AS LAST YEAR!

So what are we losing if we go back to losing games 2-1 or 3-1 or 3-2 or whatever?

We're only averaging about 1.5 goals per game over the last month anyway.

 

[Bleedred]

They do have some really bad personnel though. Miles Wood is like a bigger, faster Tedenby out there, minus the puck skills - he is a giant anchor right now, and the GM and coach have to recognize this, fast.

I'd have to agree. He shows flashes but he's not NHL ready yet.

No big deal. I thought he did improve from his first audition at the very beginning of the year, where both he and Speers looked like pee wee league players.

The only problem with sending Wood back is that I'm not sure who they'd call up. Probably give more ice to that talentless hack Kalinin.

 

[JimEIV]

Again, you seem to be ignoring that Cory Schneider has played terribly over this stretch. He's been awful. The defense is also awful. So yes, when a goalie plays bad in front of a bad defense, 4 GA sounds about right.

They also cannot undo the past. If you give up 4 goals a game for 12 games and then give up 3 in game 13, well guess what, you're averaging 3.92 goals against for that stretch.

Since the Rangers game on 12/18 I think things have changed. They're giving up exactly 30 shots per 60 since then which is on the high side but isn't outrageous, especially not when you consider the competition - 7 teams all currently in the playoffs. We'll see what happens when they get some leads - certainly against Washington on Tuesday they played poorly.

They do have some really bad personnel though. Miles Wood is like a bigger, faster Tedenby out there, minus the puck skills - he is a giant anchor right now, and the GM and coach have to recognize this, fast.

Wood would be the biggest anchor ifhe was getting top 6 minutes like Palmieri. Palmieri's numbers are atrocious for a top 6 player. Wood is playing a few minutes a game in bottom 6 role....Palmieri is getting real minutes and his possession numbers are just abysmal.

 

[Triumph]

Wood would be the biggest anchor ifhe was getting top 6 minutes like Palmieri. Palmieri's numbers are atrocious for a top 6 player. Wood is playing a few minutes a game in bottom 6 role....Palmieri is getting real minutes and his possession numbers are just abysmal.

There is no such thing as a top 6 and a bottom 6. Wood is getting fewer minutes but he is doing way worse. I agree that Palmieri should be better, but that's a more difficult thing to fix. It's very easy to fix Wood sewering his line every game - send him down to the minors.