Post-Game Talk: Montreal @ Washington | 2/20/20 | 7p ET | NBCSN/NBCW

[SherVaughn30]

Don’t care just fix it. Dillon did not fit in game one, I’m hoping that was first game jitters. But I’m really starting to lean towards the defensive coaching. Too much talent to suck this bad on d. We have given up almost 30 more goals then the pens have and they don’t have near the d talent we have. Outlet team defensive system is broken and needs fixing quick. At least the pens lost and TB is losing, makes me feel a bit better

It's being said the team is working on being a 5-man unit to be better with team defense, but I'm not seeing any evidence of improvement. Reirden, Cashman and Arniel are not on the same page. I see the players doing something completely different based off of each coach. It's a total clusterpuck of a lot of players trying to do too much individually! A lot of times when the Caps do get the puck out of the d-zone, a d-man is looking to make a stretch pass to the forwards, who are already up to the other blue line. Even the Centers are cheating the d-zone. So if the opponent is doing their homework, their Center is looking to pick off the stretch pass in the neutral zone and counter with 2 forwards to create an odd man break against Caps 2 d-men. Habs have the forward speed where they split our d-men twice for breakaways and another time there was a 2-on-1 against us. The gap between our d-men and forwards is terribly wide open. Even Backstrom who is probably our best 2-way Center is ignoring being responsible in back-checking and I think it's because of what the coaches are telling him to do.

The coaching is all wrong and messing up the players. Trotz had his faults being aggressive offensively(that's where Reirden's coaching made the Caps a better offensive team in the '18 Cup winning run), but he damn made sure the team was responsible defensively. Reirden and his clown assistants have not imprinted any type of system into the roster to be responsible defensively. I have noticed the Caps having 4 players standing around by their own net and the opponent only having three forwards attacking and still scoring because they were skating fast and working hard. This coaching staff has to go! The exceptional talent was bailing out the bad coaching for half the season, but now the coaching becomes far more important the 2nd half of the season. Right in front of our eyes the coaching is getting badly exposed. GM BMac is not blind/ignorant and he has to be seeing what the coaches are not doing right with this roster. He has to be getting a bit pissed at Reirden/Assistants for messing up the Cup winning roster he has put together.

Anyone follow Reirden's post-game presser? To me it sounded like he didn't know how to cleanly answer some of the reporters questions which weren't exactly cotton candy/unicorns/rainbows type questions that you usually see. I personally feel Reirden is running out of ideas on how to get the ship corrected. If BMac was twice close to firing Trotz back in '18, then he's got to be thinking about it now with Reirden, because it was never this bad of a situation under Trotz's coaching.

 

[SherVaughn30]

47 points in 54 games for Kuzy. One goal shy from another 20 goals season. And i still think he suck badly lol. Seriously, i don't get it. Stats are just fine but i actually liked his game maybe 4-5 times this season. He's been meh/trash most of the year in my eyes and somehow still got 47 f**** points.

I have liked Eller's game better than both Kuzy/Backstroke so far.

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

Don’t care just fix it. Dillon did not fit in game one, I’m hoping that was first game jitters. But I’m really starting to lean towards the defensive coaching. Too much talent to suck this bad on d. We have given up almost 30 more goals then the pens have and they don’t have near the d talent we have. Outlet team defensive system is broken and needs fixing quick. At least the pens lost and TB is losing, makes me feel a bit better

The only problem we have is Holtby. W/o him we take 30 less goals and no one talk about defense or coaching stuff. Look at Samsonov, he take 0.8 less goals per game!! Multiplied br 40 games that Holtby played, it makes 30 goals.

 

[Lindemann]

I’m so f*cking pissed we won a cup and let Trotz just go to a different team in the division. For a decade plus Ovi has had nothing but rookie coaches who doesn’t work - then Trotz comes and caps won a cup - and dumbass, cheap ass Leonsis let’s him leave to a divisional rival.


Trotz when he won the cup earned a f*cking contract to stay with this team. Leonsis being so cheap f*cked that up

I see this lie still hasn’t gone away

 

[AussieCapsFan]

I would like to see what a better coach could get out of this lineup. But it’s starting to look like it’s to late for that shake up. Sink or Swim with Todd 2020

Time is definitely running out for a coaching change with 22 games left in the regular season, so if they are going to fire Rierden it could be in the next day or two, before the New Jersey game. If not and they lose to NJ then
that could be the last straw. Consider this: In their last 10 games the Devils have 12/20 points. We have 7/20. There is a very real chance we could lose to them.
Then we have to play the Pens and after that Winnipeg, who have won 6 of their last 8.

Others have mentioned it and I'm not sure how realistic it is, but maybe they call Boudreau and he agrees to join the team as an assistant coach? I don't know if ego etc plays into it and he says "I'll only do it if I get the top job" etc.
But I think it could be an interesting situation (bringing him in to help).

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I saw big #4 plant someone on their ass in our free punch and cookies crease. Tonight was thus a victory. Ovi scoring was gravy.

Free punch and cookies crease is exactly right. Playoff-theme worthy, if I can be so bold to suggest it.

 

[DanTHEMan71]

I see this lie still hasn’t gone away

Constantly reminding people that Caps went through many rough stretches with Trotz and that coaching staff is stupid too. Every coaching staff goes through rough stretches with their teams.

But the fact is, when it came down to getting this group to win a cup, they got it done. It still doesn't make sense tossing out a veteran coaching staff for a rookie staff two weeks after winning the cup. I don't think it was good for this team's mentality.

Todd was fine as an assistant. If we were at risk losing him to a head coaching role on another team, so be it. Management screwed up promising him a promotion too early and they got cheap when Trotz asked for what he deserved.

Our assistants now don't seem nearly as intelligent. That's evident by just listening to them talk. I think losing Mitch Korn and Lane Lambert hurt almost as much as losing Trotz.

Forsythe should've been fired years ago though.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I think the (much) bigger problem than Rierden is his assistants, so I'm not sure what firing him now accomplishes. If they let go of Rierden but keep Cashman and Forsythe is there really an improvement? My guess is if they bomb out in the first round again Mac cleans house.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

47 points in 54 games for Kuzy. One goal shy from another 20 goals season. And i still think he suck badly lol. Seriously, i don't get it. Stats are just fine but i actually liked his game maybe 4-5 times this season. He's been meh/trash most of the year in my eyes and somehow still got 47 f**** points.

it’s what he does with the puck, he has Semin-itis and frequently mails it in or tries to coast on pure talent alone. If we had a dime of cap space for every play that he skated into a corner with no passing options and lost puck possession we’d be able to offer sheet Matthews.


Seriously his big hurdle his first two years was he tried too often to do all the bullshit that worked in the KHL. His best year he kicked that shit to the curb and played the harder way of working to make things happen. Since his cup run he just defaults back to “dumping pucks in and working corners is hard, ill just try to dangle all 4 guys in front of me”


I suspect his team recognizes this. I think Wilson said something post game last night about not everyone working as hard as they need to.

 

[kicksavedave]

I’m so f*cking pissed we won a cup and let Trotz just go to a different team in the division. For a decade plus Ovi has had nothing but rookie coaches who doesn’t work - then Trotz comes and caps won a cup - and dumbass, cheap ass Leonsis let’s him leave to a divisional rival.


Trotz when he won the cup earned a f*cking contract to stay with this team. Leonsis being so cheap f*cked that up

I see this lie still hasn’t gone away

Hah, yep. A quick recitation of the facts for those who seem to have forgotten. Trotz signed a four year contract that stated if he won a Cup he would automatically get a raise and another two years term. He was a disappointment for 3 years running, almost got fired in year four, then somehow magically it all came together and he won a Cup. And then his contract, as agreed to, gave him a raise and two more years terms. But Barry didn't honor that contract, he quit instead. The Caps owned his rights, but rather than being jerks about it, Ted let him re-sign with a division rival, a move they could very easily and completely legally have blocked, but they decided not to.

Sure, Ted could have paid BT more than his two year contract term remaining required them to, and we dont know the exact dollars that were tossed back and forth during that two weeks of negotiation after the Cup win - so we don't know if they were close or not close or not even having a real conversation at all. But they had a contract and Barry didn't honor it. So if the Caps gave BT a raise in the middle of his contract, should they also have given Ovi a raise in the middle of his contract? Should they also have given Kuzy a raise in the middle of his contract, or Holtby? Would THEY all have been right to hold out, and quit, if the Caps didn't give them raises in the middle of their contracts after they also helped the Caps win a Cup? Finally, if they all held out and quit the Caps for NOT getting a raise after helping them win a Cup, should that Ted have also let all three of them go play for a division rivals rather than honor their contract with the Capitals? If Trotz, Ovi, Holtby and Kuz all held out and quit the Caps in the middle of their contracts after winning that Cup, would we call Ted cheap because he expected them all to honor their contract, or would we blame those players for not honoring the word they gave when they signed those contracts?

People's heads would have literally exploded had Ovi, Kuzy and Holtby held out for more money while under contract after that Cup run, and people would have blamed them 100% for it. But somehow when BT does that exact same thing, people blame Ted for it. Its nuts.

 

[sycamore]

Time is definitely running out for a coaching change with 22 games left in the regular season, so if they are going to fire Rierden it could be in the next day or two, before the New Jersey game. If not and they lose to NJ then
that could be the last straw. Consider this: In their last 10 games the Devils have 12/20 points. We have 7/20. There is a very real chance we could lose to them.
Then we have to play the Pens and after that Winnipeg, who have won 6 of their last 8.

Others have mentioned it and I'm not sure how realistic it is, but maybe they call Boudreau and he agrees to join the team as an assistant coach? I don't know if ego etc plays into it and he says "I'll only do it if I get the top job" etc.
But I think it could be an interesting situation (bringing him in to help).

Yeah they're not firing Reirdan at this stage of the season. If they are one and done in the 'offs. yeah, then they fire him, but don't think they can fire him now and go on some kind of Penguins 2016 run. Ain't happening,

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

47 points in 54 games for Kuzy. One goal shy from another 20 goals season. And i still think he suck badly lol. Seriously, i don't get it. Stats are just fine but i actually liked his game maybe 4-5 times this season. He's been meh/trash most of the year in my eyes and somehow still got 47 f**** points.

His play away from the puck is among the worst in the league and it's exacerbated by the fact that he's a center. If he's not scoring or creating offense he's a total liability. Watch his effort here on Montreal's third goal. Makes zero effort to win the puck on the boards from Gallagher and is content with a soft little poke check then glides back to his position in the slot, and then does the bare minimum to raise Gallagher's stick off the ice making no effort again to try and win the puck. Oshie is not on his point because he's covering down low where the center should be.

This just flat out isn't acceptable effort from the forward with the second highest cap hit on the team and it's why I'm hesitant to blame it all on Rierden or his staff. What's he supposed to do, bench him? Motivate a guy making $8mm a year to stop playing defense like it's a Tuesday 10:30p beer league game?

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Enough with the personal stuff, please flag the posts if you think a site rule has been broken.

 

[hb12xchamps]

Hah, yep. A quick recitation of the facts for those who seem to have forgotten. Trotz signed a four year contract that stated if he won a Cup he would automatically get a raise and another two years term. He was a disappointment for 3 years running, almost got fired in year four, then somehow magically it all came together and he won a Cup. And then his contract, as agreed to, gave him a raise and two more years terms. But Barry didn't honor that contract, he quit instead. The Caps owned his rights, but rather than being jerks about it, Ted let him re-sign with a division rival, a move they could very easily and completely legally have blocked, but they decided not to.

To add to this. He reportedly wanted a 5 year term and wanted to be paid like one of the top 5 or 10 coaches in the league. He had already been in Washington for 4 years and like you said, he had a storybook ending his final season with the cup win. Giving him a 5 year term anywhere between 3-5 million a season wouldn't have been a smart financial decision at the time. Coaches don't last that long with one team in today's game so the organization would have owed Barry his entire contract if he was fired in year 2 or 3 of his 5 year contract that he wanted.

Plus, IIRC, one of the major reporters (Bobby Mac, Friedman, Dreger, etc.) reported a rumor about Reirden's tactics being the one they used to turn everything around after going down 2-0 to Columbus.

People just have revisionist history.

 

[Langway]

I think the (much) bigger problem than Rierden is his assistants, so I'm not sure what firing him now accomplishes. If they let go of Rierden but keep Cashman and Forsythe is there really an improvement? My guess is if they bomb out in the first round again Mac cleans house.

In which case, if that's at least in the back burner as a possibility, it's hard to believe he has the confidence to go aggressively after a high cost rental like Kreider. If the market falls apart on him maybe but the likelihood of that happening between BOS/COL seems slim.

 

[AtNightWeFly]

I knew it was all Kuzy's fault.

 

[HecticGlow]

Hah, yep. A quick recitation of the facts for those who seem to have forgotten. Trotz signed a four year contract that stated if he won a Cup he would automatically get a raise and another two years term. He was a disappointment for 3 years running, almost got fired in year four, then somehow magically it all came together and he won a Cup. And then his contract, as agreed to, gave him a raise and two more years terms. But Barry didn't honor that contract, he quit instead. The Caps owned his rights, but rather than being jerks about it, Ted let him re-sign with a division rival, a move they could very easily and completely legally have blocked, but they decided not to.

Sure, Ted could have paid BT more than his two year contract term remaining required them to, and we dont know the exact dollars that were tossed back and forth during that two weeks of negotiation after the Cup win - so we don't know if they were close or not close or not even having a real conversation at all. But they had a contract and Barry didn't honor it. So if the Caps gave BT a raise in the middle of his contract, should they also have given Ovi a raise in the middle of his contract? Should they also have given Kuzy a raise in the middle of his contract, or Holtby? Would THEY all have been right to hold out, and quit, if the Caps didn't give them raises in the middle of their contracts after they also helped the Caps win a Cup? Finally, if they all held out and quit the Caps for NOT getting a raise after helping them win a Cup, should that Ted have also let all three of them go play for a division rivals rather than honor their contract with the Capitals? If Trotz, Ovi, Holtby and Kuz all held out and quit the Caps in the middle of their contracts after winning that Cup, would we call Ted cheap because he expected them all to honor their contract, or would we blame those players for not honoring the word they gave when they signed those contracts?

People's heads would have literally exploded had Ovi, Kuzy and Holtby held out for more money while under contract after that Cup run, and people would have blamed them 100% for it. But somehow when BT does that exact same thing, people blame Ted for it. Its nuts.

He had an option, available to him, rather than finding that winning a Cup placed him under an extended contractual obligation. He declined and chose to renegotiate, and when the other side didn’t want to depart sufficiently from their starting point, he decided to resign. Note there is no suggestion in the announcement that they ‘allowed’ him to leave:

Barry Trotz informed the organization today of his decision to resign as head coach of the Washington Capitals. We are obviously disappointed by Barry's decision, but would like to thank Barry for all his efforts the past four years and for helping bring the Stanley Cup to Washington. Barry is a man of high character and integrity and we are grateful for his leadership and for all that he has done for our franchise.

No self-respecting Head Coach who’d just won a team a Stanley Cup was going to settle for $1.8 million a year, on a short term contract. Be anti-Trotz or pro-Reirden by all means, but please don’t repeat the spin that came from an organisation that had made pretty clear its intentions long before Trotz departed.

 

[caps4cup]

Two thoughts:

This is different than the Trotz firing situation. Trotz turned the franchise around, instilled accountability into the culture and made this a winning team again. Did they have their struggles in the playoffs? Yeah. The blown 3-1 lead against the Rangers hurt as did both Penguins losses. I don’t think the 2016 Penguins loss is on Trotz. That Penguins team was a machine that year and they were simply better than the Caps, I don’t think anyone was stopping them. He should take some blame for the Rangers loss as well as the 2017 Penguins loss. Blowing a 3-1 lead is never acceptable regardless if you’re playing the Presidents Trophy winner (IIRC?). He also handled the roster decisions poorly in the 2017 playoffs, but to his credit the team outplayed the Penguins the whole series, Holtby just blew it.

In 2017/2018, Trotz was in the final year of his deal with an evolving roster that wasn’t getting nearly the results that they got the two previous years. They never really dominated and they were in danger of missing the playoffs. It made some sense to shake things up in hopes that the teams fortune would change, especially if they planned on TR being the coach next year anyways.

Fast forward to today. I think the biggest difference between the two situations, and what BMac is likely frustrated about it, is that TR took a Cup winning team that generally played the game the right way and was generally well coached and made them easy to play against and that accountability Trotz had is no longer there. You could see/hear the frustration watching BMac’s presser for the Dillon trade.

Now I’m not saying he “made” them easy to play against. Obviously that’s not his goal. But he’s the coach and the style the team plays is on his shoulders.

I don’t think Reirden is a bad coach and I don’t think Trotz is a perfect coach, but it seemed like Trotz was the best fit for this core group that we had seen. Maybe it is because TR hasn’t been a head coach before but he doesn’t seem to have that accountability factor that this team seems to need.

As for Kuzy, he’s been a real problem and I think he exemplifies everything that is wrong with this team. Lacking work ethic, not caring enough about defense, no real interest in forechecking, unnecessary turnovers. You have to think BMac is really upset with him and I’m not saying he’s on the block, but if BMac really wanted to change things up I think Kuzy would be the guy getting traded, which I would be 100% fine with.

 

[DanTHEMan71]

It's not like Leonsis couldn't afford it even if he only stayed 2 or 3 of the 5 years. Our management simply cheaped-out and didn't appreciate the value of an experienced and proven coaching staff.

 

[Capsman]

I think the (much) bigger problem than Rierden is his assistants, so I'm not sure what firing him now accomplishes. If they let go of Rierden but keep Cashman and Forsythe is there really an improvement? My guess is if they bomb out in the first round again Mac cleans house.

I'm perfectly fine with changing the assistants. Perhaps with a stronger, more hands on head coach it wouldn't make as much a difference, but with Todd in particular I don't think these are the right guys. Todd in time may improve in that regard, and our cup run clearly showed he had things to offer. But right now his talents are not best utilized as a head coach, so he will need better help than what guys like Cashman can provide.

 

[Capsman]

His play away from the puck is among the worst in the league and it's exacerbated by the fact that he's a center. If he's not scoring or creating offense he's a total liability. Watch his effort here on Montreal's third goal. Makes zero effort to win the puck on the boards from Gallagher and is content with a soft little poke check then glides back to his position in the slot, and then does the bare minimum to raise Gallagher's stick off the ice making no effort again to try and win the puck. Oshie is not on his point because he's covering down low where the center should be.

This just flat out isn't acceptable effort from the forward with the second highest cap hit on the team and it's why I'm hesitant to blame it all on Rierden or his staff. What's he supposed to do, bench him? Motivate a guy making $8mm a year to stop playing defense like it's a Tuesday 10:30p beer league game?

His effort was better under Trotz. So clearly there is something either in terms of motivation or specific instruction that has changed. That said, did you watch Backstrom on the OT goal yesterday? This is a guy known for his smart play, his defensively responsible play. I have a very hard time believing that there isn't a complacency and disregard for detail that has crept into the team and has progressively worsened as the season has gone on.

 

[kicksavedave]

He had an option, available to him, rather than finding that winning a Cup placed him under an extended contractual obligation. He declined and chose to renegotiate, and when the other side didn’t want to depart sufficiently from their starting point, he decided to resign. Note there is no suggestion in the announcement that they ‘allowed’ him to leave:



No self-respecting Head Coach who’d just won a team a Stanley Cup was going to settle for $1.8 million a year, on a short term contract. Be anti-Trotz or pro-Reirden by all means, but please don’t repeat the spin that came from an organisation that had made pretty clear its intentions long before Trotz departed.

The reporting from LeBrun is inaccurate, the clause kicked in, he was under contract with the Caps, and he resigned. The Caps do not have to "allow him to leave." But if he resigns while under contract, he cannot go work for another NHL team while his contract term still exists. So what the Caps "allowed him to do" was to they released him from the contract which allowed him to go be the HC of a division rival, rather than blocking him as was their complete legal right to do.

Some people would say that no self respecting person would tear up a contract they signed and quit, and ask to go work for a rival. So your position on what Trotz deserved vs what "respect" entails is just your perspective. I'm of the mindset that you honor a contract, even if the terms are not as favorable as they once were. Again what happens if Ovi, Kuzy and Holtby all tear up their contracts and demand more money, now that they have won a Cup and feel like they deserve more?

Ted has been interviewed on this. When BT first signed here, they negotiated things back and forth. BT wanted X, Ted wanted Z, they settled on Y. BT wanted a clause that gave him a raise and term if they won a Cup. They negotiated the amount and term and then, poof, they BOTH signed the contract. The Caps honored it, Trotz did not. Thats not debatable, thats simple fact. And then when Trotz quit because he thought he deserved more than his contract provided, rather than force BT to sit out 2 more years like they could have, the released him from the contract and let him sign with a division rival. Again this is fact not my opinion here. If you want you can find Ted's interview on this. He specifically said he didn't want to ruin the good vibes of the cup run by making BT sit at home for two years, but that BT was in fact under contract due to the clause kicking in.

I just think Trotz screwed the Caps on this, he quit, he wasn't fired or treated poorly, he signed a contract then decided he deserved more than he negotiated for so he quit. Again this is just fact.

 

[Calicaps]

The reporting from LeBrun is inaccurate, the clause kicked in, he was under contract with the Caps, and he resigned. The Caps do not have to "allow him to leave." But if he resigns while under contract, he cannot go work for another NHL team while his contract term still exists. So what the Caps "allowed him to do" was to they released him from the contract which allowed him to go be the HC of a division rival, rather than blocking him as was their complete legal right to do.

Some people would say that no self respecting person would tear up a contract they signed and quit, and ask to go work for a rival. So your position on what Trotz deserved vs what "respect" entails is just your perspective. I'm of the mindset that you honor a contract, even if the terms are not as favorable as they once were. Again what happens if Ovi, Kuzy and Holtby all tear up their contracts and demand more money, now that they have won a Cup and feel like they deserve more?

Ted has been interviewed on this. When BT first signed here, they negotiated things back and forth. BT wanted X, Ted wanted Z, they settled on Y. BT wanted a clause that gave him a raise and term if they won a Cup. They negotiated the amount and term and then, poof, they BOTH signed the contract. The Caps honored it, Trotz did not. Thats not debatable, thats simple fact. And then when Trotz quit because he thought he deserved more than his contract provided, rather than force BT to sit out 2 more years like they could have, the released him from the contract and let him sign with a division rival. Again this is fact not my opinion here. If you want you can find Ted's interview on this. He specifically said he didn't want to ruin the good vibes of the cup run by making BT sit at home for two years, but that BT was in fact under contract due to the clause kicking in.

I just think Trotz screwed the Caps on this, he quit, he wasn't fired or treated poorly, he signed a contract then decided he deserved more than he negotiated for so he quit. Again this is just fact.

A-f***ing-men! He quit on the team that enabled him to reach the pinnacle of his profession and realize his lifelong dream--and was prepared to give him a raise into the bargain. How anyone thinks he's the one who got screwed is beyond me.

 

[kicksavedave]

Winning the Stanley Cup, however, triggered a clause in Trotz’s contract that gave him an automatic two-year extension, Capitals General Manager Brian MacLellan said. The extension included a modest raise on what NHL salary-tracking database CapFriendly.com lists as a $1.5 million annual salary. Incentives in the contract pushed that figure over $2 million due to the playoff success this past season.

“His representative wants to take advantage of Barry’s experience and Stanley Cup win and was trying to negotiate a deal that compensates him as one of the better coaches in the league — a top-four or five coach — so he’s looking for that type of contract,” MacLellan said Monday.

MacLellan said he was hopeful the two could agree on a “shorter-term deal,” but he said that a five-year term was a “sticking point” because that would have kept Trotz with the team for nine seasons and “there are not many coaches who have that lasting ability,” MacLellan said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-washington-capitals-despite-stanley-cup-win/

Its all right there. BT wanted 5x5 and the Caps balked at the term. 17 years of flameouts, 1 magical run, and suddenly he's too good to honor his word. f*** Barry Trotz!

 

[DanTHEMan71]

He didn't get screwed. They actually did him favor by releasing him from his deal. But our ownership/management was being petty and cheap to let him walk.

I don't know what Trotz was thinking when he signed that deal. Obviously his salary required renegotiation because $1.8M for a 17-or-whatever-year NHL coach who just won the cup is insulting.

Pay him the $5M for 5 years, even if he only lasts 2 or 3 years. Dismantle the coaching staff when it stops working, not after winning a championship. I don't see how that's a problem for our multibillionaire owner so I think the decision ultimately came down to BMac and Dick Patrick who stubbornly went ahead with the promise they gave to Todd without considering what this team would revert back to without a strong coaching staff.