Montreal fans want to sign Petry. 5.5-6 million

[Mr Positive]

I'd still happily have him back at 5.5. Ideally he's in the 4.5-5 range, but I'd rather overpay Petry by a million than overpay Nikitin by 3 or say Franson by 2+

for me the term is more troubling than the cap hit. We can't have an overpayment on a middle pairing max guy like Petry when we're looking for extensions for McDavid, Hall, etc. I also highly doubt that Franson is worse than Petry at all

 

[bucks_oil]

I don't think anyone was saying to hand Petry a 6 year contract (4 would have been nice), obviously there are some fans that thought Petry was not even a #5 dman, others thought he was a top four dman all day long on any team. You won't find too many teams that don't lock up a player of his calibre past their UFA year, what more did Petry have to prove to show he was worth more than Nikitin who they just paid 4.5 mil a year, while Petry played much tougher minutes. You don't think that players notice this? I can't even understand how you pull out the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" card. It was terrible management of our best dman asset by a rookie GM. We likely could have locked Petry up at 4.5 x 4 instead of the 1 year showme the braintrust gave him, while giving Ference and Nikitin contracts.

No matter what they did with Subban, he was a RFA and they didn't lose the asset, big difference and not comparable.

I would say the Petry contract is a bit high, I would say 4.5 is on the money, but since its 6 years, by year 3 and the way the cap is going up, it may look great. Petry was Montreal's second best dman in the playoffs and played over 20 minutes a night.

Wait till we have to replace him and see what we pay.

Why do people keep saying this like gospel truth?

What we know is this: they didn't agree to terms, so Petry/agent felt they were worth more than what MacT offered. ~80+ games later, the same player, the same agent negotiate themselves a $5.5M deal. Petry did not have a gangbuster breakout season. What additional leverage would he have to command an additional $1M from MTL?

I find it hard to believe that the $$$/valuation gap was not: i) very real and ii) very justifiable from MacT's position given the overhaul our blueline needs. The evidence of what Petry and his agent were willing to sign for is now publicly known. All else that came before were mere rumours.

 

[bucks_oil]

with all the interesting developments on Petry

it's important to recall that fateful June `14 , Petry asked for 3.5 x 3 (Smid type dollars) and MacT balked and offered 3.1 x 2, settling on the "challenge" deal 3.1 x 1 and FA

and look at what has happened to our 06' 2nd rounder with 295 games played, that we squandered

'it's not MacT! it's NOT MacT!! it's REAK!'

Do you have a link for this beyond speculation?

 

[bucks_oil]

I really can't fathom the idea that MacT gave Petry a one-year deal to earliest UFA status as a "challenge contact". No one can possibly be that stupid.

I bet it was an ultimatum from Petry and his agent to either give the one year contract, or trade his rights then and there in the summer of 2014. MacT spun it, laughably, in an attempt to save face in the midst of effectively losing his #1 d-man for peanuts.

Well ... of course that's what you do when there is a HUUUUGE gap in valuation. It must have been very clear to both sides that they would never come to terms. So you sign him to 1 year and immediately shop him (remember the Det rumors started right away).

There was NEVER going to be a situation where MacT and Petry would bridge that gap once negotiations get that sour.

 

[Halibut]

Well ... of course that's what you do when there is a HUUUUGE gap in valuation. It must have been very clear to both sides that they would never come to terms. So you sign him to 1 year and immediately shop him (remember the Det rumors started right away).

There was NEVER going to be a situation where MacT and Petry would bridge that gap once negotiations get that sour.

So why agree to a one year deal?

The Oilers controlled his rights they didnt need to give him a one year deal that took him right to UFA. Sign him to a two year deal and look to trade him while he still has some term left rather than let him get to the brink of free agency and have to accept a 2nd round pick as the best piece they could get back for him.

 

[frag2]

Yup.

7.5% of next year's projected cap to lock down a defenseman that would still be far and away the best on the team is nothing.

People are greatly underestimating the effect of a rising salary cap too. The deal will just keep getting better and better.

Agreed. Just look at caphits now compared to 5 years ago. 5 years from now, a #3 dman making 5.5 will be considered great value.

with all the interesting developments on Petry

it's important to recall that fateful June `14 , Petry asked for 3.5 x 3 (Smid type dollars) and MacT balked and offered 3.1 x 2, settling on the "challenge" deal 3.1 x 1 and FA

and look at what has happened to our 06' 2nd rounder with 295 games played, that we squandered

'it's not MacT! it's NOT MacT!! it's REAK!'

Petry didn't ask for anything. He had no intent of resigning with us.

 

[The Nuge]

for me the term is more troubling than the cap hit. We can't have an overpayment on a middle pairing max guy like Petry when we're looking for extensions for McDavid, Hall, etc. I also highly doubt that Franson is worse than Petry at all

Franson is definitely worse than Petry, and by a fair margin. Nashville gave up a 1st for him and they're not even considering bringing him back.

 

[Halibut]

Petry didn't ask for anything. He had no intent of resigning with us.

That's not the rumour that has been going around and it holds as much certainty of being correct as your belief that he wanted to leave. Even if he did wish to leave MacT managed it in such a fashion that he got the absolute minimum return. He would have got a better deal if he didnt sign Petry at all and traded his rights last summer.

 

[Up the Irons]

Why do people keep saying this like gospel truth?

What we know is this: they didn't agree to terms, so Petry/agent felt they were worth more than what MacT offered. ~80+ games later, the same player, the same agent negotiate themselves a $5.5M deal. Petry did not have a gangbuster breakout season. What additional leverage would he have to command an additional $1M from MTL?

I find it hard to believe that the $$$/valuation gap was not: i) very real and ii) very justifiable from MacT's position given the overhaul our blueline needs. The evidence of what Petry and his agent were willing to sign for is now publicly known. All else that came before were mere rumours.

two reasons:

1. by playing well for Montreal, especially in the playoffs, Petry did, indeed, increase his value.

2. every player is overpaid in free agency, and at this point, he is basically a free agent. A year ago is a year; meaning, worth less than today.

There are only two ways to paint this: either Mact blew the situation, or he decided there is no point in spending money on an 'in his prime' dman, now, because they were not completing now or in the near future. Save the money now, so we can sign Nurse, Klef, Hanifin later.

As usual, they were writing off the next 2 or 3 seasons.

 

[Mr Positive]

Franson is definitely worse than Petry, and by a fair margin. Nashville gave up a 1st for him and they're not even considering bringing him back.

It's not that simple to me. Maybe Franson just didn't gel with that particular style of team. Toronto and Edmonton are quite similar. Maybe on the Oilers, we would see the Toronto version of Franson. Both players were RHD that were loved and hated by their teams. Franson was better offensively. Petry was the better defensive player.

A few months ago, the tables were turned on these two players. Petry was under estimated around the league. Franson was golden. So what has changed? A few months? It seems like a lot of knee-jerk analysis is going on. Over time, it seems to me that these highs and lows will average out to both players being roughly equal.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

It's not that simple to me. Maybe Franson just didn't gel with that particular style of team. Toronto and Edmonton are quite similar. Maybe on the Oilers, we would see the Toronto version of Franson. Both players were RHD that were loved and hated by their teams. Franson was better offensively. Petry was the better defensive player.

A few months ago, the tables were turned on these two players. Petry was under estimated around the league. Franson was golden. So what has changed? A few months? It seems like a lot of knee-jerk analysis is going on. Over time, it seems to me that these highs and lows will average out to both players being roughly equal.

 

[AM]

They scored 221 goals last year same as the Crosby/Malkin-led Penguins and only 8 goals fewer than the SCF finalist Blackhawks. The Oilers, with all their young scoring talent, scored 198. It's not just about how much you score, it's about what you give up and having a great goaltender and solid D can make a big difference there. Now, I think they do need some better depth, but I also think a lot of their scoring woes can be attributed to coaching. Therrien likes his team to play a low-event style, which is going to suppress offense. As for Petry, always liked him as an Oiler and the contract is about right.

With Petry, hell have to learn to play a high event game.

 

[Mr Positive]

you know BNL, just because you don't like Franson doesn't mean the whole league thinks that way. I remember a Friedman segment in the first half of the season where he said that a lot of GMs were paying attention to Franson, and that he was going to be demanding over 5 million a year from someone during free agency. The rumour was that Toronto offered him 4.6 rather than trade him for that huge return. You don't like Franson, well, a lot of people didn't like Petry. It's like they're twins.

 

[McArthur]

what were the conditions on Mtl's 3rd rounder this year? did they have to go deep into the playoffs, or did they have to re-sign petry?

 

[DipsyMcDoodles]

what were the conditions on Mtl's 3rd rounder this year? did they have to go deep into the playoffs, or did they have to re-sign petry?

Montreal had to make the Eastern Conference Finals in order for us to get the third rounder; since they only made the second round, we get their fourth pick

 

[BleedingOil]

Petrys camp never considered anything less than 5 mil per on a long term extension. They are not stupid

 

[Supermassive]

Petry didn't ask for anything. He had no intent of resigning with us.

That's pretty much it. Hopefully Chiarelli realizes the need for one top-pairing d-man, and doesn't leave Klefbom on executioner's row, like LoweT did with Petry.

 

[McDoused]

I'd still happily have him back at 5.5. Ideally he's in the 4.5-5 range, but I'd rather overpay Petry by a million than overpay Nikitin by 3 or say Franson by 2+

Except Nikitin only has 1 year left. I'm not sure why fans are so fixated on cap hits. Pretty sure Nikitin would have signed for 3M if he had the same term. I still remember everyone saying how great the Luongo and Richards contracts were at the time. We can't forget about term. Not only does Petry have term but he has a NMC as well. With the young talent we have, we can't handcuff our team 4 years down the line.

 

[shoop]

Except Nikitin only has 1 year left. I'm not sure why fans are so fixated on cap hits. Pretty sure Nikitin would have signed for 3M if he had the same term. I still remember everyone saying how great the Luongo and Richards contracts were at the time. We can't forget about term. Not only does Petry have term but he has a NMC as well. With the young talent we have, we can't handcuff our team 4 years down the line.

Why wouldn't the Oilers use a normal course buyout on Nikitin? Or Ference?

With the way Niki played last year he is a 7D. Maybe. Shifts 2.25M onto the cap the following year. Saves the team 1.5M in cash.

Ference is a serviceable third pairing guy, but aav of 3.5M is a bit much for two more years. Shifts ~ 1.75M to the following two seasons. Saves the team 2.3M in cash.

Not an ideal situation, but gives Chia a little more cap room to make some bold moves. Also saves the team a little under 4M.

 

[Soundwave]

Petrys camp never considered anything less than 5 mil per on a long term extension. They are not stupid

Agreed. The Oilers gave Smid a $3.5 per extension, Nikitin $4.5, Fayne $3.6 and Petry's agent some how was willing to take 3.1 per? C'mon. I don't buy it.

I think the minimum ask for 4.75 x 5 and Mac T got cold feet.

 

[Soundwave]

Why wouldn't the Oilers use a normal course buyout on Nikitin? Or Ference?

With the way Niki played last year he is a 7D. Maybe. Shifts 2.25M onto the cap the following year. Saves the team 1.5M in cash.

Ference is a serviceable third pairing guy, but aav of 3.5M is a bit much for two more years. Shifts ~ 1.75M to the following two seasons. Saves the team 2.3M in cash.

Not an ideal situation, but gives Chia a little more cap room to make some bold moves. Also saves the team a little under 4M.

I don't like this. 2.25 mill on the cap next year is not a trivial amount. I'd rather just ride it out and be rid of him.

Trade him for Cam Ward or whatever, Carolina will bite because they're probably looking to spend less money.

 

[McXLNC97]

Why wouldn't the Oilers use a normal course buyout on Nikitin? Or Ference?

With the way Niki played last year he is a 7D. Maybe. Shifts 2.25M onto the cap the following year. Saves the team 1.5M in cash.

Ference is a serviceable third pairing guy, but aav of 3.5M is a bit much for two more years. Shifts ~ 1.75M to the following two seasons. Saves the team 2.3M in cash.

Not an ideal situation, but gives Chia a little more cap room to make some bold moves. Also saves the team a little under 4M.

I don't know if Chia is really gonna want to buy out or move Ference though. He will probably want him around just for the sake of having him house Mcdavid. Don't think they want to go the route of Hall+Eberle where they were living together and couldn't cook worth squat. The team is quite lacking when it comes to vets. I guess Hendricks could be an option to house Mcdavid as he still has two years left on his deal.

 

[Throttlehead]

Why do people keep saying this like gospel truth?

What we know is this: they didn't agree to terms, so Petry/agent felt they were worth more than what MacT offered. ~80+ games later, the same player, the same agent negotiate themselves a $5.5M deal. Petry did not have a gangbuster breakout season. What additional leverage would he have to command an additional $1M from MTL?

I find it hard to believe that the $$$/valuation gap was not: i) very real and ii) very justifiable from MacT's position given the overhaul our blueline needs. The evidence of what Petry and his agent were willing to sign for is now publicly known. All else that came before were mere rumours.

First off I said "likely could have". How does that translate to "gospel truth"? Its just an educated guess, we will never know unless Petry tells us

I don't know how anyone honestly believes that Petry was looking for 5 million when MacTavish gave him 1 year 3 million contract. Then MacTavish FINALLY tried to resign him again AFTER he gave more money to Nikitin, Ference, Schultz, Fayne, while Petry played top minutes against the best players. I would completely understand at that point why Petry told MacTavish to pound sand, total disrespect for his best dman. MacTavish made another rookie mistake and we paid for it. From MacTavish's mouth.....Schultz future norris. The guy was so bad at his job it was incredible, he didn't know when to shut his mouth when there was no need to give his opinion, and had no clue how to assess talent, just to name a few flaws.

I still believe Petry would have gladly signed for 4 mil over longer term, unless he absolutely hated Eakins like most players did, who knows maybe that was the key issue, along with the disrespect MacTavish showed. MacTavish did the exact thing with Dubnyk.