Modano worries over union's future

[copperandblue]

In the last couple days we have heard Gartner now Modano, Daigenault (Fischler quotes him again) even Kypreos (sp?) has suggested that the players are in a losing battle and all to varying degrees suggested that ultimately the players will be forced too or will change their position towards how they approach the negotiations.

Too me it boils down to an abstract admission that like it or not "cost certainty" is on the way.

I can't for the life of me undertsand what they are waiting for in terms of trying to kick start the negotiations. It would seem to me that once the realization starts to occur, then all that's left is getting the best deal possible and the only way to do that is to do it now....

There have been a few quotes out there (Gartner being one) that I interpret as almost begging the NHL to come back with a proposal as a last ditch effort to salvage the season. What I am wondering is if the NHL came back with a similar proposal as last time but sweetened the pot a bit (say go from 38 to 40 mil on the cap) then maybe the union would take the opportunity to negotiate off of it.

I don't think that it is realistic for the NHL to demand a cap against the PA's hard lined stance against one and then on top of it expect that if there is a possibility for the PA to change it's position, that they would be the ones coming back with a proposal that includes one.

I would think that if the PA was ever to negotiate one it would only be in response to the NHL making another proposal and I can't figure out why they aren't.

 

[txomisc]

I think Mike, who has been the subject of ridicule for his dog comment, just rehabilitated his image.
QUOTE]

No, I don't think so. As long as Mike Modano is an NHL player he will be "dogged" by his comments. As a matter of fact every time Modano shows his face in Phoenix I will be there with a dog colar and leash to remind Mike how assinine he has been. And if the Coyotes were smart they would mock him as well, to help support the local SPCA. A great promotion would be "Help feed Mike Modano's dog". Bring a bag of dog food and you get a 50% off voucher for mechandise at the rink. All food gets donated to the local shelters.

this is ridiculous. i am on the owners side and always have been but Modano has gotten way too much crap for cracking a small joke....and yeah thats what it was, a joke. He is a genuine good guy and no he is not eager to get back because he lost all his money last year. Out of all the players who deserve to get **** (chelios, domi) Modano is certainly not worthy of the crap aimed his direction.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Knowingly or perhaps unknowingly Modano may have just salvaged part of this season by speaking out. The NHLPA will have no choice now but to make the most out of what is left of their bargaining chips. Thank you Mike Modano for having to guts to say what most if not all other players are actually thinking.

....wow you can read all of the players minds???? Stop posting BS stuff with nothing to back it up. Seems like your doing this on a regular bases now.

 

[trahans99]

Finally a big name player who speaks up. I think he's right... i hope this wakes up Goodenow.

I bet Bobs already called him and told him to retract his comments... i really hope he won't...

 

[X8oD]

....wow you can read all of the players minds???? Stop posting BS stuff with nothing to back it up. Seems like your doing this on a regular bases now.

Mr. "Players will not have outclauses and the NHL owners will be screwed because they waited to long" shouldnt throw stones in a glass house.

or are you a pot kettle kinda person?

 

[GirardIsStupid]

who do many of you guys defend a league that wants to make a cash cow out of us?

on another note, i think the union would be more inclined to accept a cap if the NHL opened up all of its books. get rid of all the mistrust and put it all out there in the open. but, the league doesn't want to do that. in fact, they did it once with three teams allowing to be audited by the players association only to find more revenue that was unclaimed. why all the secrecy bettman? if you get rid of that mistrust, i think the players would happily oblige to link salaries to revenues.

as an aside, i have to criticize peter karmoron. he said he was losing 1 mill per month when he bought the whalers. why, on earth, then did he then decide to offer fedorov that ridiculous salary? there must be money coming from somewhere. or maybe he though such a signing would foster greater interest in the canes following their move to carolina...which was a great misjudgement on his part as the canes have trouble with attendance even after going to the cup finals.

as far as modano's comment's goes, its good to see the players are beginning to realize the true resolve of the owners. they were banking on the colorados and detroits to start cracking because they don't care about capping the salaries of their teams. those who still think the same way have got it wrong. its the rich guys who are driving this lockout boat and now that they're in charge (unlike in '94), its time for the players to realize they're fighting a losing battle. just give in to a freakin cap. ya'll did it for the entry level players and even these young guys found a way to great sums of money through bonuses. just simply set your league up like the NFL (minus the revenue sharing the NHL is avoiding) and you'll still get most of what you want.

btw, I'm more in favour of a salary cap than revenue sharing since i know the latter would significantly help out more teams than the former. so because i cheer for a wealthy team, i know my guys will still have a monetary advantage over at least half the clubs in the league when a new CBA is established.

finally, its good to see the GMs are talking to the agents. unlike the owners, their objective and competitiveness forces them to fight for the surivival of this season. they've worked hard to put teams together (except for the rotten bruins) and thereby still have a great stake in this season. at least the owners now have someone who can provide some mediation. at least there is some optimism. its what keeps me going

in the end, however, the season's done.

 

[copperandblue]

Finally a big name player who speaks up. I think he's right... i hope this wakes up Goodenow.

I bet Bobs already called him and told him to retract his comments... i really hope he won't...

I don't think it makes much of a difference if guys retract comments. An once of common sense will allow players and fans alike to see right through it.

 

[chiavsfan]

Mr. Jericho...

This "book-opening" thing has been discussed. If the PA really thought the owners books were a joke...then they wouldn't have offered their "salary rollback" BASED ON THOSE NUMBERS!!

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

I agree with copper that if the NHL wants a cap, then it is up to them to make proposals to this effect right now. But that's really true if they want a cap this season.

Where I understand the NHL is that it actually *looks* (I'm still skeptical) like they will be the first league to have the balls and intelligence to cancel a complete season out. The players are going to lose a lot of ground and if the NHL actually does that, by next year those bloodsuckers at the NHLPA are going to crawl back and bring the lube themselves along with cap proposals.

If this takes place, look for other sports league to pick up this trend and stop acting like wussy Pejorative Slurs who always give in to players.

Hard stances by ownerships is something that should have been happening in pretty much all sports league more than a decade ago.

 

[Hockey_Nut99]

who do many of you guys defend a league that wants to make a cash cow out of us?

on another note, i think the union would be more inclined to accept a cap if the NHL opened up all of its books. get rid of all the mistrust and put it all out there in the open. but, the league doesn't want to do that. in fact, they did it once with three teams allowing to be audited by the players association only to find more revenue that was unclaimed. why all the secrecy bettman? if you get rid of that mistrust, i think the players would happily oblige to link salaries to revenues.

as an aside, i have to criticize peter karmoron. he said he was losing 1 mill per month when he bought the whalers. why, on earth, then did he then decide to offer fedorov that ridiculous salary? there must be money coming from somewhere. or maybe he though such a signing would foster greater interest in the canes following their move to carolina...which was a great misjudgement on his part as the canes have trouble with attendance even after going to the cup finals.

as far as modano's comment's goes, its good to see the players are beginning to realize the true resolve of the owners. they were banking on the colorados and detroits to start cracking because they don't care about capping the salaries of their teams. those who still think the same way have got it wrong. its the rich guys who are driving this lockout boat and now that they're in charge (unlike in '94), its time for the players to realize they're fighting a losing battle. just give in to a freakin cap. ya'll did it for the entry level players and even these young guys found a way to great sums of money through bonuses. just simply set your league up like the NFL (minus the revenue sharing the NHL is avoiding) and you'll still get most of what you want.

btw, I'm more in favour of a salary cap than revenue sharing since i know the latter would significantly help out more teams than the former. so because i cheer for a wealthy team, i know my guys will still have a monetary advantage over at least half the clubs in the league when a new CBA is established.

finally, its good to see the GMs are talking to the agents. unlike the owners, their objective and competitiveness forces them to fight for the surivival of this season. they've worked hard to put teams together (except for the rotten bruins) and thereby still have a great stake in this season. at least the owners now have someone who can provide some mediation. at least there is some optimism. its what keeps me going

in the end, however, the season's done.

It's called a risk. When someone is getting to the desperate stage and losing money, they will go to high or extreme measures to try and fix the problem. He thought he would get a good return on his investment. If it meant paying federov a little too much, then it was worth it if the Canes did get him. He might have put more buts int he seats..

 

[Sp5618]

Modano is Hurting

I would like to see the NHLPA say, yeah, its time. We lost the chicken fight with the owners. Of course Modano is going to be the weakest link. If he lost most of his money through high risk investments, he does not have that nest egg ALL of his fellow high paid stars do, does he? Worse yet, he knows what it feels like to be on that side of the fence, and the number of years he has to try to recoup SOME of that are fewer and fewer....

I am surprised it has taken him this long actually! I think we just found our first replacement player- not because he WANTS to be a scab, but he may not have a choice.

 

[Benji Frank]

Finally a big name player who speaks up. I think he's right... i hope this wakes up Goodenow.

I bet Bobs already called him and told him to retract his comments... i really hope he won't...

I've read his comments a few times & can't see any reason for him to retract them. He didn't come out and say let's accept a cap. He didn't come out and say he's anti-union. He came out and said the owners were solid in their position & if this drags into next year, players might question their resolve & really chomp at the bit to get a deal done. It's true. There were players questioning their resolve this year. It'll get worse come fall. He didn't say he'd be one of them though.....

I bet right now, you'll hear Trevor Linden or whoever saying that's Mike's opinion. "Every player I've spoken to believes in what we're doing and is prepared to sit the rest of their career if necessary.... blah, blah, blah"

 

[Sp5618]

It's called a risk. When someone is getting to the desperate stage and losing money, they will go to high or extreme measures to try and fix the problem. He thought he would get a good return on his investment. If it meant paying federov a little too much, then it was worth it if the Canes did get him. He might have put more buts int he seats..

If Karmanos gets a hard cap, as he wants, he never again will be able to make another calculated risk to try to get a winner in Carolina. He'll have 1-2 good lines, 2 bad lines, and a mediocre goalie....like everyone else in the NHL. The 'difference' will be for the teams who have 1 of the top 4 goalies in the league!

 

[GirardIsStupid]

It's called a risk. When someone is getting to the desperate stage and losing money, they will go to high or extreme measures to try and fix the problem. He thought he would get a good return on his investment. If it meant paying federov a little too much, then it was worth it if the Canes did get him. He might have put more buts int he seats..

It speaks volumes that Karmanos doesn't do well with his "risk-taking" behavior in the NHL. He said he's willing to risk another season. Go ahead and find out for yourself what'll happen.

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

who do many of you guys defend a league that wants to make a cash cow out of us?

Because its better than defending a single individual that does the same. You can honestly sit there and defend the players when they will hold out at the drop of a hat to extort more money out of the teams (nee league), using the fans as a bargaining device? What's worse is they play on the fans adoration and blow smoke up everyone's skirts while squeezing more money out of the situation they are in, and then they jump ship for even more money the minute they get an opportunity.

The players and the owners are cut from the same cloth in their greed. They're both slimy IMO, but I back the ones who are willing to invest the millions of dollars required to develop the teams and support the league itself. As soon as the players buck up and become partners in the venture, assuming some level of financial risk, they will get a lot more respect IMO.

Question for you. How can you defend players who routinely hold out, demand trades for personal gain and then show zero loyalty as soon as free agency comes available?

 

[GirardIsStupid]

Mr. Jericho...

This "book-opening" thing has been discussed. If the PA really thought the owners books were a joke...then they wouldn't have offered their "salary rollback" BASED ON THOSE NUMBERS!!

Mr. chiavsfan

I'm sure the player's know the owners books aren't a joke. The league is losing significant cash, but not as much as they have been leading us on. The owners have got to be hiding some of their money. If there's nothing to hide, just open up the books to the players. It's definitely the way to foster trust and an ecnomonic partnership the league seeks to have with its players. Why hesitate to do this? Maybe someone intimately familiar with law can give me another reason.

 

[Go Flames Go*]

Mike Commodore was on radio here yesterday he still stands by his comments about accepting the cap, the payroll ranges system. He is a good boy. Modano is right, he is aching to get his 9 million a season paycheck, and Goodenow is gonna loose hsi job hopefully from taking hockey away from us.

 

[txomisc]

I would like to see the NHLPA say, yeah, its time. We lost the chicken fight with the owners. Of course Modano is going to be the weakest link. If he lost most of his money through high risk investments, he does not have that nest egg ALL of his fellow high paid stars do, does he? Worse yet, he knows what it feels like to be on that side of the fence, and the number of years he has to try to recoup SOME of that are fewer and fewer....

I am surprised it has taken him this long actually! I think we just found our first replacement player- not because he WANTS to be a scab, but he may not have a choice.

Modano did not lose "most" of his money. I am sure it was a significant ammount but i am also very sure he could retire right now and live the rest of his days as a very rich man

 

[kerrly]

....wow you can read all of the players minds???? Stop posting BS stuff with nothing to back it up. Seems like your doing this on a regular bases now.

You seem to think its genious when Al Strachan posts things without backing them up.

 

[GirardIsStupid]

Question for you. How can you defend players who routinely hold out, demand trades for personal gain and then show zero loyalty as soon as free agency comes available?

I don't defend the players at all. They make far too much money and have knowingly exacerbated some of the league's problems. But they didn't create the league's problems. Boston did by blowing up entry-level salaries. NYR did by trying to pry Sakic from Colorado. Karmanos and Jacobs did by going on a couple of ego trips against Detroit. I am just vehemently more against these filthy, lying, backstabbing billionaires who are deceiving the fans, who are driving this sport into oblivion, give us a crappy product to watch, and still expect us to pony up lots of money to watch their games. I feel that I, like other fans, are the ones having to suffer for the mistakes of the owners and no fan will be rewarded once this lockout ends. I don't want to be part of the sheep that are sacrificed in this cold war. If ticket prices do not go down and/or if traditional hockey markets throughout North America don't get a second chance, like winnipeg or quebec city, i won't go to another NHL game in my life (spare the SCF if the avs are in it since my loyalty to my team is still great).

 

[pei fan]

I think that all player agents should go to their players and say this:

"This whole thing sucks. The owners suck. Bettman sucks, and we should all wish evil things on them.

Now that we have got that out of the way, the best deal we are going to get is now. Merchandising for the NHL is down 80%. The revenues of the business if we don't get hockey back playing are going to drop to a fraction of the $2.2 billion we have now. To me that means that going from $1.8 million average won't be going to $1.3 average. It might be $1.0 average or $0.7 average salary. I don't honestly believe that the owners are going to change their stance, so we have one option. Negotiating the best possible deal right now. Have two franchise players per team not in the cap...and cap the rest. Have players drafted by that team only counting 66% to the cap....let's get as much as we can now....because honest to God....it is only going to get worse."

Is merchandising down 80%
what are your sources?

 

[HF2002]

I think that all player agents should go to their players and say this:

"This whole thing sucks. The owners suck. Bettman sucks, and we should all wish evil things on them.

Now that we have got that out of the way, the best deal we are going to get is now. Merchandising for the NHL is down 80%. The revenues of the business if we don't get hockey back playing are going to drop to a fraction of the $2.2 billion we have now. To me that means that going from $1.8 million average won't be going to $1.3 average. It might be $1.0 average or $0.7 average salary. I don't honestly believe that the owners are going to change their stance, so we have one option. Negotiating the best possible deal right now. Have two franchise players per team not in the cap...and cap the rest. Have players drafted by that team only counting 66% to the cap....let's get as much as we can now....because honest to God....it is only going to get worse."

This is why the players aren't interested in linking revenue and salaries. It's not so much the cap that they're worried about but the drop in revenue and the realization that the NHL is not a big time sport after all - not big enough to justify the big time salaries. Yes, there is an enormous amount of revenue, but it's dropping. No big time tv deal hurts them big time in a system that links salaries to revenue because it has such a wide reaching affect in other areas. Pro PA people can say that the owners are hiding revenue and profit, but are they hiding some secret tv deal? Are they fudging the tv ratings?

It's time to sit down and fix what's wrong with the on ice product, address the problems in a meaningful way, and then re-evaluate how things are going. This is not just the players responsibility. The best starting point that came out of the gathering the Shanahan sponsored was the idea that any contact in the neutral zone, except on the player with the puck, is an automatic penalty.

 

[Smart Alek]

As a matter of fact every time Modano shows his face in Phoenix I will be there with a dog colar and leash to remind Mike how assinine he has been.

I hope you guys didn't miss this gem...

I'm sure the poster will make Mike Modano feel awfully stupid by dressing up like a dog in a stadium full of people who are oblivious to his comments...

Don't forget to bark and sniff people's backsides... that'll show him!

 

[ak47]

If a guy like Modano is worried about his future paycheques, you gotta wonder how worried the 23-25yr old 4th liner is about his. Goodenow took a huge risk that the owners would crack (and probably promised the PA that they would). The players are realizing that they can take a $38 MM cap today, or risk losing a full year (and maybe more) of salary and be offered a cap number that is much lower. If I'm Bettman, I don't budge - he's got the players exactly where they didn't want to be.

 

[FLYLine27*]

You seem to think its genious when Al Strachan posts things without backing them up.

What does that have to do with someone making up stuff on the HF Boards?