OT: MOD ALERT POST #599 Brady suspended 4 games, Pats fined $1Mill and lose 2 draft picks

[Vtwin]

once they found out the Patriots were cheating at half time against the Colts in AFC Championship game they should have made the Patriots play with legal footballs the second half of the Colts playoff game and then the Super Bowl- likely Malcom Butler doesnt catch a regular inflated football and the Patriots have several fumbles those 6 quarters

I don't know what happened or for how long, if anything was happening. Just like you.

For the sake of argument though.

Do you believe there would or would not be an advantage if a team was able to soften the balls below the stated minimum over the course of an entire season?

 

[EverettMike]

I don't know what happened or for how long, if anything was happening. Just like you.

For the sake of argument though.

Do you believe there would or would not be an advantage if a team was able to soften the balls below the stated minimum over the course of an entire season?

For the sake of what argument exactly?

 

[jgatie]

I don't know what happened or for how long, if anything was happening. Just like you.

For the sake of argument though.

Do you believe there would or would not be an advantage if a team was able to soften the balls below the stated minimum over the course of an entire season?

No. Not one tiny bit. And if you mention fumbles, I'm just going to say that when the coach benches your sorry ass after one fumble and puts in <running back of the week>, you learn to hold onto the damn ball. There is no other coach who punishes fumbles like Belichick. None. That is why the Patriots don't fumble.

 

[Vtwin]

They're completely different things. In so many ways. Also that ended Ray Rice's career. Goodell even admitted 2 games was a mistake. Why are you using 2 games as a comparison point when it's already been determined that that was the wrong punishment?

Exactly.

Hardy lost an entire season, albeit with pay and was then suspended for ten games. He lost millions because of his actions given that he only got a 'pay as you play and only if you play well' contract from the Cowboy's.

 

[Vtwin]

For the sake of what argument exactly?

The argument that softer balls give an advantage.

 

[jgatie]

The argument that softer balls give an advantage.

What advantage?

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

The media attention was a direct result of what the NFL did and did not do in the week after the AFCCG. To say they had to punish the Patriots because of the media attention is exactly the reason this is absurd.

I don't have a good answer for something I don't agree with.

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

So the NFL singled out your team, the Patriots, for something they cannot prove (and even you are not convinced of), and hammered them with the largest penalty of all time because of the media attention drawn to it, and you are "not angry about it"?

Can you not see where someone could possibly call BS on your self-proclaimed unbiased-ness?

I don't understand why "unbiased-ness" is such a bad thing to you. I'm just not an angry person. Why are you attacking me for that?

 

[jgatie]

I don't understand why "unbiased-ness" is such a bad thing to you. I'm just not an angry person. Why are you attacking me for that?

I'm not attacking you. I'm explaining why some people find your "devils advocate" posts annoying. Though I'm sure you are quite aware already. It seems to be your shtick.

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

I'm, not attacking you. I'm explaining why some people find your "devils advocate" posts annoying.

It's not devils advocate just because you don't agree with it. Your stance isn't always the logical one.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

The argument that softer balls give an advantage.

Softer footballs supposedly give an advantage when gripping the ball, but don't travel as far. Harder (ie over-inflated balls) supposedly go farther, but are harder to grip.

Six of one, half a dozen of another. I think the advantage would be more mental than anything else, and Brady has proven that he can excel when using a "normal" football.

I think that the NFL should widen the gap they allow for inflation of footballs. If Rodgers likes them a little more inflated, fine. If Brady likes them less inflated, that's fine too.

Much ado about nothing, which is the reason NE fans are so pissed.

 

[Vtwin]

What advantage?

I asked the question of a specific poster who specifically mentioned the results of one half of one football game to refute the possible effect the alleged cheating had on the outcome of the game.

I just wondered if he thought that over the course of an entire season there may be an advantage or not.

I take it you think not.

 

[EverettMike]

The argument that softer balls give an advantage.

How is that relevant to the conversation being had about double standards?

It isn't. You just want an opportunity to take some subtle shots.

Cheating is cheating, but I don't get worked up about it too much. Not because it is okay, but because usually instances of cheating are so minor they have a negligible impact on the game.

 

[Bi Coastal Bawse*]

Manning gets much more $$$ for endorsements from much more mainstream companies. Part of this is that the NFL pushes him as the face of the league.

I was saying he is the face of the league

 

[jgatie]

I was saying he is the face of the league

I was completely agreeing with you. My "and Tom Brady is the face of the NFL" was dripping with sarcasm.

 

[jgatie]

I asked the question of a specific poster who specifically mentioned the results of one half of one football game to refute the possible effect the alleged cheating had on the outcome of the game.

I just wondered if he thought that over the course of an entire season there may be an advantage or not.

I take it you think not.

And I'm asking you to answer your own question. What advantage do YOU think it gives?

 

[Vtwin]

Softer footballs supposedly give an advantage when gripping the ball, but don't travel as far. Harder (ie over-inflated balls) supposedly go farther, but are harder to grip.

Six of one, half a dozen of another. I think the advantage would be more mental than anything else, and Brady has proven that he can excel when using a "normal" football.

I think that the NFL should widen the gap they allow for inflation of footballs. If Rodgers likes them a little more inflated, fine. If Brady likes them less inflated, that's fine too.

Much ado about nothing, which is the reason NE fans are so pissed.

I more or less agree with this. As a not very good WR/CB on a not very good high school team I did find it easier to catch a softer ball. I do understand that advantage would be nowhere near as great to a real football player though.

 

[jgatie]

It's not devils advocate just because you don't agree with it. Your stance isn't always the logical one.

In a forum filled with Patriots fans, the poster who repeatedly and constantly takes the other side of the argument is a devil's advocate by very definition of the term.

In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who, given a certain argument, takes a position they do not necessarily agree with (or simply an alternative position from the accepted norm), for the sake of debate or to explore the thought further. In taking this position, the individual taking on the devil's advocate role seeks to engage others in an argumentative discussion process. The purpose of such a process is typically to test the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure, and to use such information to either improve or abandon the original, opposing position. It can also refer to someone who takes a stance that is seen as unpopular or unconventional, but is actually another way of arguing a much more conventional stance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_advocate

 

[Vtwin]

How is that relevant to the conversation being had about double standards?

It isn't. You just want an opportunity to take some subtle shots.

Cheating is cheating, but I don't get worked up about it too much. Not because it is okay, but because usually instances of cheating are so minor they have a negligible impact on the game.

C'mon man,

My question was to a specific individual who brought that topic into the discussion. If I came here to take shots there would be nothing subtle about it.

I'm not a hater.

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

In a forum filled with Patriots fans, the poster who repeatedly and constantly takes the other side of the argument is a devil's advocate by very definition of the term.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_advocate

Yeah, except I'm not taking any positions I don't believe in just for the sake of argument. I'm not really taking any bold stances whatsoever. You're just annoyed that I'm not joining your rally against the nfl, a league that runs a sport I happen to still enjoy watching. Pretty much no matter what Goodell does.

 

[Therick67]

Aaron Rogers says he like the ball to be over inflated.

Tom Brady likes them on the softer side.

Last season GB threw 6 interceptions and had 7 fumbles for a total of 13 on the season.

The Patriots threw 9 interceptions and fumbled 4 times for a total of 13 on the season.

Can someone please explain the huge advantage the softer ball gave - since the more inflated ball is somehow said to lead to more turnovers?

Brett Favre sent pictures of his junk, when the league asked for his phone, he refused.
I don't recall any punishment for not cooperating.

 

[Replicator]

Brett Favre sent pictures of his junk, when the league asked for his phone, he refused.
I don't recall any punishment for not cooperating.

He was fined $50k for not cooperating.

 

[Replicator]

Poor comparison. This is the second time the pats have been busted for ball related violations. They got a simple warning the first time. None of your examples above are 2nd offenses.

This argument doesn't really hold water.
How do you know the others were not 2nd offenses? You've been harping on this for months now, and no one even knew what you were talking about, because the prior incident was a long time ago and did not make much of a noise at the time. If it wasn't due to all the media attention of the current mess, I seriously doubt that you would have remembered it either.

Even assuming that the others were all first offenses, the 2 Pats incidents were bending different rules, and 10 years apart. What is the statute of limitations on playing with practice balls even though that rule was rescinded a year later?

 

[EverettMike]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...c-c3f407e5a9e9_story.html?tid=pm_sports_pop_b

Finally an outsider agrees we aren't crazy.

 

[Oates2Neely]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...c-c3f407e5a9e9_story.html?tid=pm_sports_pop_b

Finally an outsider agrees we aren't crazy.

Thanks for the link, great read. It's refreshing to see an outsiders perspective that isn't tainted with jealousy & envy.

I hoped Kraft would've taken aim at Goodell. He's a dirtbag. Here's hoping Brady takes him to court & he's exposed (again) as a fraud & clown.