MMA General Discussion and Fight Announcements 7.0

[tmurfin]

For a guy always complaining about his pay to turn down by far the biggest money fight on the horizon for him is a very bad look. I agree no matter how much the UFC promotes it the fight won't do a ton of PPV buys, but it'll destroy a MM/Borg matchup.


Agreed on all points.

Like I said earlier, I'm betting it's a ploy for more money. Knowing the UFC, they're throwing Dillashaw at him and offering his same pay. Why fight risk it all against a bigger guy for the same money?

Also, UFC has signed Glory kickboxer Gokhan Saki, I know absolutely nothing about him but his record is pretty crazy at 83-12, and he has some notable victories. Adds some new blood to the LHW division.

 

[m9]

Like I said earlier, I'm betting it's a ploy for more money. Knowing the UFC, they're throwing Dillashaw at him and offering his same pay. Why fight risk it all against a bigger guy for the same money?

Of course money can solve it, I just don't see why it needs to in this case.

They aren't asking him to go up in weight, they aren't asking him to fight on short notice. They are asking him to fight who they perceive is the best fight inside his own weight class and division. So he is turning down the fight because there is another guy he wants to fight more? Who cares who he wants to fight?

 

[tmurfin]

Of course money can solve it, I just don't see why it needs to in this case.

They aren't asking him to go up in weight, they aren't asking him to fight on short notice. They are asking him to fight who they perceive is the best fight inside his own weight class and division. So he is turning down the fight because there is another guy he wants to fight more? Who cares who he wants to fight?

I'm not even a fan of DJ, and I think he's earned the right to call the shots. Dillashaw is all reward and little risk, if he loses to DJ, he's still on top on how division, if he wins, he's a champ. DJ is taking all the risk on this fight and is fighting the bigger man, damn rights he deserves to get paaaaaid for it.

 

[m9]

I'm not even a fan of DJ, and I think he's earned the right to call the shots. Dillashaw is all reward and little risk, if he loses to DJ, he's still on top on how division, if he wins, he's a champ. DJ is taking all the risk on this fight and is fighting the bigger man, damn rights he deserves to get paaaaaid for it.

You can say DJ is taking all the risk in EVERY fight, that's what being the champ is. What's his reward fighting Ray Borg? Do you think Ray Borg is taking any risk if they fight? Or Tim Elliott? Or anyone else?

I don't see what relevance the size and why someone should get paid more for it, guys drop or move up into other weight classes all the time.

It should be about making the fight that is the most competitive and the most interesting for the fans. TJ Dillashaw offers both.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

Some interesting odds out there right now. Aldo is barely favored over Holloway at -140. Hunt is an underdog to Lewis (+105). Weidman is an underdog to Gastelum (+115). Lawler is only -140 against Cerrone.

 

[LSCII]

You can say DJ is taking all the risk in EVERY fight, that's what being the champ is. What's his reward fighting Ray Borg? Do you think Ray Borg is taking any risk if they fight? Or Tim Elliott? Or anyone else?

I don't see what relevance the size and why someone should get paid more for it, guys drop or move up into other weight classes all the time.

It should be about making the fight that is the most competitive and the most interesting for the fans. TJ Dillashaw offers both.

It's ironic to me that so many folks here blew a gasket when McGregor moved up and was immediately given a shot at the belt against RDA, skipping over the actual contenders in that division. They again complained when he got to fight Alvarez for the belt after splitting his two fights with Diaz. Fast forward to now, and a lot of the same people are calling for Dillishaw to be given an immediate title shot in a division he's not in. I wonder why?

 

[m9]

It's ironic to me that so many folks here blew a gasket when McGregor moved up and was immediately given a shot at the belt against RDA, skipping over the actual contenders in that division. They again complained when he got to fight Alvarez for the belt after splitting his two fights with Diaz. Fast forward to now, and a lot of the same people are calling for Dillishaw to be given an immediate title shot in a division he's not in. I wonder why?

Well, I was fine with it both times. And when Daniel Cormier loses his 205 belt I'm fine with him fighting for the HW belt, too.

The people who didn't like it for Conor probably had a problem with him jumping the long line of contenders at 155. There is no such line at 125.

 

[Nurmagomedov]

DJ is right not to take the fight IMO. As far as i know, Dillashaw has never made 125. Moving down a division is not the same as moving up.

 

[jw2]

It's ironic to me that so many folks here blew a gasket when McGregor moved up and was immediately given a shot at the belt against RDA, skipping over the actual contenders in that division. They again complained when he got to fight Alvarez for the belt after splitting his two fights with Diaz. Fast forward to now, and a lot of the same people are calling for Dillishaw to be given an immediate title shot in a division he's not in. I wonder why?

Difference being, 1 is a stacked division, the other is weak as hell.

Duh.

 

[jw2]

DJ is right not to take the fight IMO. As far as i know, Dillashaw has never made 125. Moving down a division is not the same as moving up.

Then he shouldn't have been complaining about pay and looking for a super fight (at 125, nonetheless), just to balk when it was offered

 

[Nurmagomedov]

Then he shouldn't have been complaining about pay and looking for a super fight (at 125, nonetheless), just to balk when it was offered

It's not for you to say whether someone should complain about their pay. And you have to be awfully generous to call TJ Dillashaw a superfight. He's probably less of a draw than DJ is, without a belt no less.

 

[member 51464]

It's not for you to say whether someone should complain about their pay. And you have to be awfully generous to call TJ Dillashaw a superfight. He's probably less of a draw than DJ is, without a belt no less.

That point is debatable, but the question is not whether TJ is more of a draw than DJ. The question is about whether TJ is more of a draw than the alternatives for DJ to fight.

 

[LSCII]

Well, I was fine with it both times. And when Daniel Cormier loses his 205 belt I'm fine with him fighting for the HW belt, too.

The people who didn't like it for Conor probably had a problem with him jumping the long line of contenders at 155. There is no such line at 125.

Difference being, 1 is a stacked division, the other is weak as hell.

Duh.

No, the difference is that McGregor vs RDA was champion vs champion, so skipping over the top contenders aligned with the best interests for the company and could logically be argued for.

Dillishaw isn't even the number one contender in his own division, FFS. This would be the equivalent of Eddie Alvarez moving down and demanding to fight Aldo immediately. It's laughable.

 

[m9]

No, the difference is that McGregor vs RDA was champion vs champion, so skipping over the top contenders aligned with the best interests for the company and could logically be argued for.

Dillishaw isn't even the number one contender in his own division, FFS. This would be the equivalent of Eddie Alvarez moving down and demanding to fight Aldo immediately. It's laughable.

No, because there are viable options at 145. It would be like Dom Cruz dropping down to fight DJ immediately. Is that laughable too?

 

[m9]

Just to add, the only guys at 135lb I would be fine with getting an immediate title shot at 125lbs are Cruz, TJ, and Garbrandt. Nobody else has earned it.

 

[LSCII]

No, because there are viable options at 145. It would be like Dom Cruz dropping down to fight DJ immediately. Is that laughable too?

No, but that's because they've fought before and there would obviously be interested in seeing the rematch at a lower weight since the first one happened at Cruz' weight. This fight with Dillishaw is really only interesting to TJ. I've said to before and I'll say it again, Johnson has literally no upside in this fight. Every aspect about it is a net negative for him. So why should he do it? Because Dillishaw wants him to? Who cares what that guy wants?

And you say there are no viable options for DJ to fight, but that's because he's cleaned out his division. That's not a negative, that's a testament to how great he's been.

Now in terms of who Dillishaw should fight, why not Borg? The guy has missed weight twice, so he's not a guarantee that he'd even make weight if he fought DJ, so let those two fight and DJ can take the winner on. That way, if TJ beats the next guy in line for DJ's belt, he's at least shown he earned the shot.

 

[m9]

No, but that's because they've fought before and there would obviously be interested in seeing the rematch at a lower weight since the first one happened at Cruz' weight. This fight with Dillishaw is really only interesting to TJ. I've said to before and I'll say it again, Johnson has literally no upside in this fight. Every aspect about it is a net negative for him. So why should he do it? Because Dillishaw wants him to? Who cares what that guy wants?

And you say there are no viable options for DJ to fight, but that's because he's cleaned out his division. That's not a negative, that's a testament to how great he's been.

Now in terms of who Dillishaw should fight, why not Borg? The guy has missed weight twice, so he's not a guarantee that he'd even make weight if he fought DJ, so let those two fight and DJ can take the winner on. That way, if TJ beats the next guy in line for DJ's belt, he's at least shown he earned the shot.

I don't understand this "risk" or "net negative" that is brought up with TJ Dillashaw. The risks are the same as they would be in a fight vs Borg. The only extra risk would be if you think Dillashaw is a better challenge for DJ, and if that's the case you are proving the point as to why the fight should be made.. he is the best challenger.

Nobody is discrediting DJ for cleaning out the division, no idea where you are going with that.

So your solution to who DJ should fight is.. nobody? The have a PPV card near his hometown that needs a headline or top fight. So Ray Borg vs TJ Dillashaw is your answer?

 

[jw2]

No, but that's because they've fought before and there would obviously be interested in seeing the rematch at a lower weight since the first one happened at Cruz' weight. This fight with Dillishaw is really only interesting to TJ. I've said to before and I'll say it again, Johnson has literally no upside in this fight. Every aspect about it is a net negative for him. So why should he do it? Because Dillishaw wants him to? Who cares what that guy wants?

And you say there are no viable options for DJ to fight, but that's because he's cleaned out his division. That's not a negative, that's a testament to how great he's been.

Now in terms of who Dillishaw should fight, why not Borg? The guy has missed weight twice, so he's not a guarantee that he'd even make weight if he fought DJ, so let those two fight and DJ can take the winner on. That way, if TJ beats the next guy in line for DJ's belt, he's at least shown he earned the shot.

Name an opponent that has "upside" for DJ?

Why would TJ fight a contender out when he's guaranteed a title fight at, at least, 2 weight classes? Seriously... wtf??

 

[LSCII]

Name an opponent that has "upside" for DJ?

Why would TJ fight a contender out when he's guaranteed a title fight at, at least, 2 weight classes? Seriously... wtf??

To him? Borg. DJ wants to set the record, he's said it multiple times. He views it as his legacy. Why wouldn't he take the virtual guarantee over the tougher fight versus a bigger guy?

 

[LSCII]

I don't understand this "risk" or "net negative" that is brought up with TJ Dillashaw. The risks are the same as they would be in a fight vs Borg. The only extra risk would be if you think Dillashaw is a better challenge for DJ, and if that's the case you are proving the point as to why the fight should be made.. he is the best challenger.

Nobody is discrediting DJ for cleaning out the division, no idea where you are going with that.

So your solution to who DJ should fight is.. nobody? The have a PPV card near his hometown that needs a headline or top fight. So Ray Borg vs TJ Dillashaw is your answer?

It doesn't need a headline, as that fight has already been replaced.

In terms of the upside, what does DJ gain by risking his streak against a bigger guy instead of fighting the next guy up in his own division? I can't make that any clearer. He gains zero by fighting Dillishaw and risks everything.

And really, why should DJ care if Dillishaw doesn't get to fight close to his hometown?

 

[m9]

It doesn't need a headline, as that fight has already been replaced.

In terms of the upside, what does DJ gain by risking his streak against a bigger guy instead of fighting the next guy up in his own division? I can't make that any clearer. He gains zero by fighting Dillishaw and risks everything.

And really, why should DJ care if Dillishaw doesn't get to fight close to his hometown?

You have your cards confused - Dillashaw is off UFC 213, they are trying to book DJ/Dillashaw for UFC 215.

You also have your fighters confused - UFC 215 is slated for Seattle, so having DJ on that card to set the record near his hometown is what they are looking for.

You haven't made anything clear. You are giving non-reasons as to why this fight shouldn't take place, stating abstract reasons like "size" that have no relevance to anything.

You also can't even pick another fight for DJ, instead making Borg and Dillashaw fight each other which makes no sense and does not offer a solution to the problem.

So I'll leave this discussion with you at that, as I don't see the "upside" for me to continue it.

 

[LSCII]

You have your cards confused - Dillashaw is off UFC 213, they are trying to book DJ/Dillashaw for UFC 215.

You also have your fighters confused - UFC 215 is slated for Seattle, so having DJ on that card to set the record near his hometown is what they are looking for.

You haven't made anything clear. You are giving non-reasons as to why this fight shouldn't take place, stating abstract reasons like "size" that have no relevance to anything.

You also can't even pick another fight for DJ, instead making Borg and Dillashaw fight each other which makes no sense and does not offer a solution to the problem.

So I'll leave this discussion with you at that, as I don't see the "upside" for me to continue it.

Yep, I switched them. But regardless, let me ask you one final question. Is DJ versus Borg an "easier fight" than DJ versus Dillishaw for Johnson? Simple question, very obvious answer.

 

[jw2]

Yep, I switched them. But regardless, let me ask you one final question. Is DJ versus Borg an "easier fight" than DJ versus Dillishaw for Johnson? Simple question, very obvious answer.

I think there's some confusion.

Some of us are looking for the best, most competitive fight, not the easiest fight for the guy we like.

 

[LSCII]

I think there's some confusion.

Some of us are looking for the best, most competitive fight, not the easiest fight for the guy we like.

I get that, but I don't think DJ is looking at it that way. He wants the record. Maybe once he has that, he'd be open to a fight with TJ, but right now he's focused on breaking the record. And the most sure way he does that is to fight Borg.

 

[Wood Stick]

I don't think DJ is ever severely remembered to be honest.