MLB: New PBA Proposal would Eliminate 25% of Minor League Baseball in 2021

[Centrum Hockey]

The Yankees have said they will fight for Staten Island - the Red Sox haven't said a word about Lowell.

When I was living just north of Chicago I went to a few games in Kenosha and the owner was a real nice guy.



I am becoming more convinced that Rob Manfred does NOT love the game of baseball.

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2019/11/boston-red-sox-in-talks-to-host-future-all-star-game-team-president-sam-kennedy-says.htm Sam Kennedy didn't say he is interested in fighting for lowell to keep their affiliation.

 

[PCSPounder]

Clarification: the original news was that the Appy, Pioneer, and New York/Penn Leagues would go away with exception of a handful of teams who would be moved up, while the Northwest League would go to full season. Thing is, Salem/Keizer and Tri-City are on the chopping block (not the other NWL teams... and these are definitely two of the three most spartan parks in the league)... along with Lancaster of the California League. So this seems like a merger of the two leagues into the California League level, probably with a CL team destined to be moved up?

Of course, as you can see by the reaction, we’re still at the start of whatever process is going on, with no certainty of resolution.

One thing to mention: most independent league efforts fail (teams, not necessarily leagues themselves). Many cities CRAVE an affiliation. Not all. A large percentage of those teams on the list (or any future list), if they get cut, aren’t getting replaced.

 

[KevFu]

One thing to mention: most independent league efforts fail (teams, not necessarily leagues themselves). Many cities CRAVE an affiliation. Not all. A large percentage of those teams on the list (or any future list), if they get cut, aren’t getting replaced.

This and the whole "Death sentence" thing is kind of odd to me.

There are more NON-AFFILIATED teams than affiliated teams right now.

The Olean Oilers average 333 fans per game. The team didn’t fail because they weren’t affiliated. But because it's a really small town (14,000) with very few sponsorship dollars, and the college baseball team games are free. There wasn’t enough revenue. Affiliation wouldn’t change that.

Think of it this way:
NYC Metro: 20,320,876 people, NYM/NYY average 36,144 fans. That’s 0.0018% of the population.
Olean: 13,597 people. Oilers average 333 fans. That’s 0.245% of the population.

Affiliation isn’t going to create more paying customers, because affiliation isn’t creating MORE PEOPLE in Olean.


How are we defining “most independent teams fail” ? The list of “Defunct” minor league teams is about 800 teams long per wikipedia. Of course, cross off every market that has a baseball team NOW and we’re down to 300. Then you look deeper into names and see things like Austin, Texas has two defunct teams but they now have the Round Rock Express. Or Or Davenport, Moline and Rock Island have defunct teams, but now there’s the Quad City River Bandits.

So there's about as many "Failed markets" as current ones. And the difference between "Failed" and "Current" is basically a new stadium. Like El Paso and Wichita were failed markets, and now Portland OR and New Orleans are. Basically, minor league baseball is "wait 20 years and someone will build a new stadium and they’ll shuffle around again."

And the other thing here is that the current setup is "The owner of the team has the affiliation, and he can move the team and they'll reshuffle alignments to fit that" and there's really no way to "lose your affiliation" other than selling it to someone else.

If the minors were more like "Team exists, and affiliation goes to the teams that invest in facilities, draw well, etc" wouldn't we be better off?

 

[KevFu]

And the other thing that’s dumb about all this… Manfred can’t go six months without talking about expansion.

Why draw up a 30-team plan for the minors that has a 10-team AAA league in the West, and a 20-team AAA league for Central/East, 6-team league here, 8-team league there, 10-team league there, 14-team league there, etc.

Draw up a plan for when you do expand MLB. And that plan has four leagues per level of the minors. One Western, Central, Eastern and other Eastern, all of 8-teams.

Add Montreal and either Charlotte or Nashville

For example, Triple A.
West: Fresno, Reno, Sacramento, Tacoma, Albuquerque, El Paso, Las Vegas, Salt Lake (affiliates for, in no order, LAD, LAA, ARZ, SF, SD, OAK, COL, SEA
Central: St. Paul, Iowa, Omaha, Oklahoma City, Round Rock, San Antonio, Wichita, Tulsa (MIN, CHC, KCR, MIL, TEX, CWS, STL)
East IL: Buffalo, Lehigh Valley, Wooster, Rochester, Syracuse, Scranton, Norfolk, Hartford (TOR, MON, PHI, BOS, NYM, NYY, BAL, WAS)
East AA: Toledo, Columbus, Durham, Gwinnett, Memphis, Louisville, Indianapolis, Nashville/Charlotte (MIA, TB, ATL, CLE, DET, PIT, CIN, NASH/CHAR)

Double A:
W: California League (moves up from A ball)
C: Texas League
E: Eastern League (trimmed to 8 teams)
E: Mid-Atlantic (created from some EL, CAR, NYP league teams)

A-Ball
W: Pioneer League (moves up from Rookie Ball)
C: Southern League (moves down from AA)
E: Midwest League (splits in half by Divisions)
E: New League (created from CAR/SAL league teams)

Low A
W: Northwest League (moves up from Short Season)
C: Midwest League (split in half by division, drops from High A)
E: Carolina League (remixed from CAR/SAL leagues)
E: Northeast (remixed from leftover EL/NYP teams)

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Commissioner Rob Manfred Comments On Minor League Baseball Reorganization

 

[GindyDraws]

Commissioner Rob Manfred Comments On Minor League Baseball Reorganization

While it is a given that there are some places that do have sub-standard facilities (places like Hagerstown, Richmond, and the entire Appalachian League are more obvious than others), I personally felt like Manfred was arguing that MiLB wanted MLB to do everything for them while they just sat around collecting profit. It's not easy to build a new ballpark in some areas due to public support, money, and land. Also, multiple teams have moved around since the 1990 PBA that caused a huge rift between the two organizations, so if someone feels like they're unable to meet those standards, they'll just move to another place that is willing to.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

While it is a given that there are some places that do have sub-standard facilities (places like Hagerstown, Richmond, and the entire Appalachian League are more obvious than others), I personally felt like Manfred was arguing that MiLB wanted MLB to do everything for them while they just sat around collecting profit. It's not easy to build a new ballpark in some areas due to public support, money, and land. Also, multiple teams have moved around since the 1990 PBA that caused a huge rift between the two organizations, so if someone feels like they're unable to meet those standards, they'll just move to another place that is willing to.

I still don't think there is a lot Milb can do to stop mlb from revoking affiliations from the teams they want to get rid of. Even if congress threaten's to revoke their anti trust exemption
It would cause ripple effects with other sports. How would the NHL be able to keep the Yotes in Phoenix the next time a Jim Bastille like situation comes up if there is a precedent when a league is classified as a business not a sport

 

[KevFu]

I still don't think there is a lot Milb can do to stop mlb from revoking affiliations from the teams they want to get rid of. Even if congress threaten's to revoke their anti trust exemption
t would cause ripple effects with other sports. How would the NHL be able to keep the Yotes in Phoenix the next time a Jim Bastille like situation comes up if there is a precedent when a league is classified as a business not a sport

NHL, NFL and NBA don't have anti-trust exemptions like MLB does. And those leagues operate in the same way. The exemption basically means they can't be SUED for anti-trust like NFL, NHL and NBA could be. Al Davis won his anti-trust suit with the NFL to move to Los Angeles, for example. (And the USFL won against the NFL, but only won $1 and change).

The irony is that the anti-trust exemption is basically what allows the reserve clause to be legal, and therefore lets minor league teams to be stocked with prospects from the MLB teams.

Basically, politicians are saying "If we lose our affiliation, we'll get Congress to repeal your anti-trust exemption! Which would make it far more likely for teams to lose their affiliations!"

It's all basically dumb... are newly unaffiliated teams going to go rogue and sign MLB free agents? Nah.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

NHL, NFL and NBA don't have anti-trust exemptions like MLB does. And those leagues operate in the same way. The exemption basically means they can't be SUED for anti-trust like NFL, NHL and NBA could be. Al Davis won his anti-trust suit with the NFL to move to Los Angeles, for example. (And the USFL won against the NFL, but only won $1 and change).

The irony is that the anti-trust exemption is basically what allows the reserve clause to be legal, and therefore lets minor league teams to be stocked with prospects from the MLB teams.

Basically, politicians are saying "If we lose our affiliation, we'll get Congress to repeal your anti-trust exemption! Which would make it far more likely for teams to lose their affiliations!"

It's all basically dumb... are newly unaffiliated teams going to go rogue and sign MLB free agents? Nah.

A lot of news articles are saying that the proposal would mean all these teams would automatically contract at the end of the season which is not true. Also There is still opportunity's for business partnership's with MLB and other local teams even though they are no longer directly affiliated.

 

[oknazevad]

I'm going point out, again, that there are not more unaffiliated teams than affiliated. I don't know what teams @KevFu is counting, but there's 160 affiliated teams not counting the spring-training-complex-based rookie teams, and there's about 60 independent league teams.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

there's also a group out there trying to save the Daytona franchise, known as the Tortugas as a result of this proposal;

story in today's Daytona Beach News Journal (news-journal.com

 

[KevFu]

I'm going point out, again, that there are not more unaffiliated teams than affiliated. I don't know what teams @KevFu is counting, but there's 160 affiliated teams not counting the spring-training-complex-based rookie teams, and there's about 60 independent league teams.

I was including all the teams (including the summer collegiate leagues) on the Ballpark Digest list of attendance:
2019 MiLB/SC/Indy Attendance by Average

It's semantics on whether or not "summer collegiate leagues" would "count" as "minor league teams." (technically, MILB doesn't include the independents on the list of minor league teams, only affiliated teams).

But as it pertains to the discussion of "does losing your affiliation mean your team is going to be sentenced to bankruptcy/death" they're ample evidence that teams can be successful with attendance/profit without an affiliation. For example, the Madison Mallards draw over 6000 a game.

 

[oknazevad]

I figured you were counting summer collegiate teams. Those are not professional baseball. None of the players are paid, and there's strict NCAA eligibility requirements. They're amateur leagues. They do make money for the owners precisely because they don't have to pay players.

 

[PCSPounder]

I figured you were counting summer collegiate teams. Those are not professional baseball. None of the players are paid, and there's strict NCAA eligibility requirements. They're amateur leagues. They do make money for the owners precisely because they don't have to pay players.

My question on this: is it Pay To Play?

But as it pertains to the discussion of "does losing your affiliation mean your team is going to be sentenced to bankruptcy/death" they're ample evidence that teams can be successful with attendance/profit without an affiliation. For example, the Madison Mallards draw over 6000 a game.

I know there's success stories. There's also graveyards of indy leagues and teams that failed (28 leagues in the last 25 years). I think a handful of the affiliated markets will find a second life... but this does not apply to the lot of them.

 

[KevFu]

I know there's success stories. There's also graveyards of indy leagues and teams that failed (28 leagues in the last 25 years). I think a handful of the affiliated markets will find a second life... but this does not apply to the lot of them.

I find it comical on multiple levels, though.

(First and unrelated one being that most people on the BOH forum think a southern hockey team going belly up means a market didn't deserve a team to begin with, but suddenly MLB wants to streamline their affiliation situation and it’s the the end of the world).


The issue for debate is that: Trimming the number of affiliations will render baseball extinct in those 42 markets, and also "kill minor league baseball.”

1. The fact that there are 198 unaffiliated teams at some level, ranging from 8th in overall attendance to 3 people per game shows you the variety of situations and factors that exist, making the whole extinction discussion ridiculous. If no affiliation is a death sentence, then how are St. Paul and Sugarland so well run and profitable they are being OFFERED affiliation in this plan?

2. People don’t go to Minor League games because of the individual players on the roster, aka the aura of affiliation. People are more likely to go if there’s some magic wonderstud in the minors, but that’s extremely rare. Baseball prospects aren’t like LeBron James or Connor McDavid. They take years to develop, don’t skip the minors out of high school.

Attendance increases in the Minors are due to new stadiums (Las Vegas led MiLB in attendance and Fayetteville had a 91% increase in attendance thanks to new stadiums). Or promotional nights (12% increase across the board on their Latin heritage night program).

Colorado Springs had the Triple A SkySox in 2018, and then the Rookie League Rocky Mount Vibes the next season… and had a 37% increase in attendance. If affiliation is so important, dropping four rungs on the minor league ladder should kill the franchise, right?

3. The fact that minor league teams shuffle around from market to market all the time shows that the business itself is cyclical, and a market’s ability to make money or lose money has nothing to do with affiliation, but moreso on a stadium that people WANT TO COME TO.

The average life span of a TRIPLE A International League team is between 11.5 and 18.5 seasons, with Triple A being the most stable league (36 of the 42 teams on the elimination list are lower than AA ball)


Facilities are and always will be the number one determining factor of sports as a business, period. All of you know this. It’s how Winnipeg and Quebec and Minnesota and Denver lost NHL teams despite being great markets and why three of those got teams back and are still great markets. It’s why the Islanders sucked for decades despite being in NY Metro.

Lots of the newly unaffiliated teams will fail. Lots of the current unaffiliated teams will fail. Lots of the remaining affiliated teams will fail/move. Lots of the towns without baseball will get new stadiums and get a team. That's how the minors work, that's how they've always worked.

 

[oknazevad]

My question on this: is it Pay To Play?

Collegiate summer leagues are not pay-to-play (other than the cost of getting to the league), but they're also not pay-for-play. The players don't get any compensation other than being put up with a host family for the few weeks the leagues run (and it is just a few weeks, usually from the end of June to early August, about six weeks). They're not professional leagues, and not equivalent to independent minor pro leagues

 

[Centrum Hockey]

MLB official defends contraction plan, fires back at minor league owners - The Boston Globe
Some of those faculty's that MLB was concerned about leaked.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

I find it comical on multiple levels, though.

(First and unrelated one being that most people on the BOH forum think a southern hockey team going belly up means a market didn't deserve a team to begin with, but suddenly MLB wants to streamline their affiliation situation and it’s the the end of the world).


The issue for debate is that: Trimming the number of affiliations will render baseball extinct in those 42 markets, and also "kill minor league baseball.”

1. The fact that there are 198 unaffiliated teams at some level, ranging from 8th in overall attendance to 3 people per game shows you the variety of situations and factors that exist, making the whole extinction discussion ridiculous. If no affiliation is a death sentence, then how are St. Paul and Sugarland so well run and profitable they are being OFFERED affiliation in this plan?

2. People don’t go to Minor League games because of the individual players on the roster, aka the aura of affiliation. People are more likely to go if there’s some magic wonderstud in the minors, but that’s extremely rare. Baseball prospects aren’t like LeBron James or Connor McDavid. They take years to develop, don’t skip the minors out of high school.

Attendance increases in the Minors are due to new stadiums (Las Vegas led MiLB in attendance and Fayetteville had a 91% increase in attendance thanks to new stadiums). Or promotional nights (12% increase across the board on their Latin heritage night program).

Colorado Springs had the Triple A SkySox in 2018, and then the Rookie League Rocky Mount Vibes the next season… and had a 37% increase in attendance. If affiliation is so important, dropping four rungs on the minor league ladder should kill the franchise, right?

3. The fact that minor league teams shuffle around from market to market all the time shows that the business itself is cyclical, and a market’s ability to make money or lose money has nothing to do with affiliation, but moreso on a stadium that people WANT TO COME TO.

The average life span of a TRIPLE A International League team is between 11.5 and 18.5 seasons, with Triple A being the most stable league (36 of the 42 teams on the elimination list are lower than AA ball)


Facilities are and always will be the number one determining factor of sports as a business, period. All of you know this. It’s how Winnipeg and Quebec and Minnesota and Denver lost NHL teams despite being great markets and why three of those got teams back and are still great markets. It’s why the Islanders sucked for decades despite being in NY Metro.

Lots of the newly unaffiliated teams will fail. Lots of the current unaffiliated teams will fail. Lots of the remaining affiliated teams will fail/move. Lots of the towns without baseball will get new stadiums and get a team. That's how the minors work, that's how they've always worked.

A few points on this Kev:

First, Fayetteville's "increase" is a little bit misleading. The team had such a marked increase because the previous two seasons they were playing in a 1,250 person college stadium at Campbell University (located in Buies Creek, NC, about 34 miles/45 minutes from Fayetteville) while they were waiting for Segra Stadium to be built.

Also, I'd love to see your source for the average lifespan of an IL team. Because by my calculations here's how long each current IL team has been in their current market:

Team	Location	First Year in City	Current Stadium Opened
Buffalo Bisons	Sahlen Field Buffalo, NY	1985	1988
Charlotte Knights (1)	BB&T Ballpark Charlotte, NC	1993	2014
Columbus Clippers	Huntington Park Columbus, OH	1977	2009
Durham Bulls (2)	Durham Bulls Athletic Park Durham, NC	1998	1995
Gwinnett Stripers	Coolray Field Lawrenceville, GA	2009	2009
Indianapolis Indians	Victory Field Indianapolis, IN	1902	1996
Lehigh Valley IronPigs	Coca-Cola Park Allentown, PA	2008	2008
Louisville Bats	Louisville Slugger Field Louisville, KY	1982	2000
Norfolk Tides	Harbor Park Norfolk, VA	1969	1993
Pawtucket RedSox (3)	McCoy Stadium Pawtucket, RI	1973	1942
Rochester Red Wings	Frontier Field Rochester, NY	1899	1996
Scranton/Wilkes-Barre RailRiders	PNC Field Moosic, PA	1989	1989/2013 (4)
Syracuse Mets	NBT Bank Stadium Syracuse, NY	1961	1997
Toledo Mud Hens	Fifth Third Field Toledo, OH	1965	2002

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

(1) Charlotte was previously in the Double-A Southern League from 1976 onwards
(2) Durham was previously in the Advanced-A Carolina League from 1980 onwards
(3) Pawtucket moving to Worcester, MA in 2021
(4) PNC Field was completely reconstructed beginning in 2012 and was reopened in 2013

Based on that, even not counting Charlotte and Durham's runs in lower Leagues, that looks like an average of each IL team being in their current city for 47.86 seasons.

 

[PCSPounder]

If I did the same for, say, the Northwest League...

Boise Hawks Memorial Stadium 1987 1989 (franchise was the Tri-Cities Triplets, and Walla Walla prior to that)

Eugene PK Park 1974 2010 (expansion to NWL after Pacific Coast League franchise moved to Sacramento... that franchise is now Round Rock)

Everett Funko Field 1984 1984 (expansion to NWL)

Hillsboro Ron Tonkin Field 2013 2013 (moved from Yakima)

Salem-Keizer Volcanoes Stadium 1997 1997 (moved from Bellingham)

Spokane Avista Stadium 1983 1983 (expansion to NWL after Pacific Coast League franchise moved to Las Vegas)

Tri-City Gesa Stadium 2001 2001 (moved from Portland after PCL franchise moved to Portland from Albuquerque)

Vancouver Scotiabank Field at Nat Bailey 2000 2000 (moved from Medford OR after Pacific Coast League franchise moved to Sacramento)

So less than 28 seasons average in each market, with one move in the last decade. Besides the stadium-related issues in Salem and Tri-Cities, Boise may or may not be getting a new ballpark, Eugene gets a waiver from NWL standards because they're renting from the University of Oregon (it's missing a clubhouse), and Everett is a bleacher haven. The parks in Spokane and Vancouver could be considered old, too.

Rob Manfred has been typically hypocritical this week, but let's do note that (1) he was quite right about minor league owners leaking a proposal that MLB doesn't consider final, and (2) there's definitely stadium-based movement, especially (but not limited to) lower levels of the minors. Frankly, the International League chart garnetpalmetto posted shows some of the big legacy AAA franchises... a chart of the PCL and the history of moves is rather involved to say the least.

(Disclaimer... this native Portlander offers to plan vacations for disaffected Portland baseball fans to former Portland PCL teams now located in Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, El Paso... and if the traveler wants to include the folded 1917 franchise that was "spiritually believed" to be continued in Sacramento, I can add San Antonio as well)

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Frankly, the International League chart garnetpalmetto posted shows some of the big legacy AAA franchises... a chart of the PCL and the history of moves is rather involved to say the least.

I mean I'm just directly responding to @KevFu's contention that IL team have an average lifespan of 11.5 to 18.5 seasons. But hey, I'm never one to turn down the opportunity to make a table or revel in my love of MiLB. Here's the PCL for comparison's sake

Team	Location	First Year in City	Current Stadium Opened
Albuquerque Isotopes	Isotopes Park Albuquerque, NM	2003	2003
El Paso Chihuahuas	Southwest University Park El Paso, TX	2014	2014
Fresno Grizzlies	Chukchansi Park Fresno, CA	1998	2002
Iowa Cubs	Principal Park Des Moines, IA	1969	1992
Las Vegas Aviators	Las Vegas Ballpark Summerlin, NV	1983	2019
Memphis Redbirds (1)	AutoZone Park Memphis, TN	1998	2000
Nashville Sounds	First Tennessee Park Nashville, TN	1985	2015
Oklahoma City Dodgers	Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark Oklahoma City, OK	1963	1998
Omaha Storm Chasers	Werner Park Papillion, NE	1962	2011
Reno Aces	Greater Nevada Field Reno, NV	2009	2009
Round Rock Express	Dell Diamond Round Rock, TX	2005	2000
Sacramento River Cats	Sutter Health Park West Sacramento, CA	2000	2000
Salt Lake Bees	Smith's Ballpark Salt Lake City, UT	1994	1994
San Antonio Missions (2)	Nelson W. Wolff Municipal Stadium San Antonio, TX	2019	1994
Tacoma Rainiers (3)	Cheney Stadium Tacoma, WA	1966	1960
Wichita Wind Surge (4)	Wichita Ballpark Wichita, KS	2020	2020

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

(1) Memphis was previously in the Double-A Southern League from 1978 onwards

(2) San Antonio was previously in the Double-A Texas League from 1968 onwards

(3) Tacoma is unique in that the original Tacoma Giants, who started play in 1960 moved in 1965 to Phoenix. Chicago then moved the Salt Lake Bees to Tacoma - the Rainiers treat this as one continuous franchise but, of course, there's no guarantee that the Bees would have moved.

(4) Wichita is the previous New Orleans Baby Cakes and will play their first season in Wichita in 2020.

So even with all that movement, that's an average of 27 seasons of play for each of those teams (even with Wichita as a "0" in the calculation).

 

[PCSPounder]

Wind Surge?

I know I'm making comments regarding the rejection of the Palm Springs Firebirds name/marks (I tend to think it's more about the marks, but that's my warped brain) to say that all the good names are taken. Still... not sure I like be proven correct in THAT manner. Ouch.

Meanwhile, I apologize, but I'm going to poach this directly from Wikipedia.

• Los Angeles Angels (1903–1957) → Spokane Indians (1958–1971) → Albuquerque Dukes (1972–2000) → Portland Beavers (2001–2010) → Tucson Padres (2011–2013) → El Paso Chihuahuas (2014–present)
• Memphis Redbirds (1998–present)
• Oakland Oaks (1903–1955) → Vancouver Mounties (1956–1962) → Dallas-Fort Worth Rangers (1963) → Dallas Rangers (1964) → Vancouver Mounties (1965–1969) → Salt Lake City Bees (1970) → Salt Lake City Angels (1971–1974) → Salt Lake City Gulls (1975–1984) → Calgary Cannons (1985–2002) → Albuquerque Isotopes (2003–present)
• Portland Beavers (1919–1972) → Spokane Indians (1973–1982) → Las Vegas Stars (1983–2000) → Las Vegas 51s (2001–2018) → Las Vegas Aviators (2019–present)
• Portland Beavers (1978–1993) → Salt Lake Buzz (1994–2000) → Salt Lake Stingers (2001–2005) → Salt Lake Bees (2006–present)
• Portland Browns (1903–1904) → Portland Giants (1905) → Portland Beavers (1906–1917)1 → Sacramento Senators (1918–1935) → Sacramento Solons (1936–1960) → Hawaii Islanders (1961–1987) → Colorado Springs Sky Sox (1988–2018) → San Antonio Missions (2019–present)
• Sacramento Senators (1903) → Tacoma Tigers (1904)→ Tacoma Tigers/Sacramento (1905)2 → Fresno Raisin Eaters (1906)3 → Sacramento Sacts (1909–1913) → Sacramento/Mission Wolves (1914) → Salt Lake City Bees (1915–1925) → Hollywood Stars (1926–1935) →San Diego Padres (1936–1968) → Eugene Emeralds (1969–1973) → Sacramento Solons (1974–1976) → San Jose Missions (1977–1978) → Ogden A's (1979–1980) → Edmonton Trappers (1981–2004) → Round Rock Express (2005–present)
• San Francisco Seals (1903–1957) → Phoenix Giants (1958–1959) → Tacoma Giants (1960–1965) → Phoenix Giants (1966–1985) → Phoenix Firebirds (1986–1997) → Tucson Sidewinders (1998–2008)[21]→ Reno Aces (2009–present) [22]
• Seattle Siwashes (1903–1906) → Seattle Rainiers (1919–1921)4 → Seattle Indians (1922–1937) → Seattle Rainiers (1938–1964) → Seattle Angels (1965–1968) → Tucson Toros (1969–1997) → Fresno Grizzlies (1998–present)
• Vancouver Canadians (1978–1999) → Sacramento River Cats (2000–present)
• Vernon Tigers (1909–1912) → Venice Tigers (1913–1914) → Venice/Vernon Tigers (1915) → Vernon Tigers (1916–1925) → Mission Bells (1926–1927) → Mission Reds (1928–1937) → Hollywood Stars (1938–1957) → Salt Lake City Bees (1958–1965) → Tacoma Cubs (1966–1971) → Tacoma Twins (1972–1977) → Tacoma Yankees (1978) → Tacoma Tugs (1979) → Tacoma Tigers (1980–1994) → Tacoma Rainiers (1995–present)
• Evansville Triplets (1970–1984) → Nashville Sounds (1985–present)
• Houston Buffaloes (1959–1961) → Oklahoma City 89ers (1962–1997)5 → Oklahoma RedHawks (1998–2008) → Oklahoma City RedHawks (2009–2014) → Oklahoma City Dodgers (2015–present)
• Iowa Oaks (1969–1981) → Iowa Cubs (1982–present)
• Kansas City Cowboys (1900–1903) → Kansas City Blues (1904–1954) → Denver Bears6 (1955–1984) → Denver Zephyrs (1985–1992) → New Orleans Zephyrs (1993–2016) → New Orleans Baby Cakes (2017–2019) → Wichita Wind Surge (2020–future)
• Omaha Royals (1969–1998) → Omaha Golden Spikes (1999–2001) → Omaha Royals (2002–2010) → Omaha Storm Chasers (2011–present)

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

there is now a petition out there (change.org) to keep professional baseball in Binghamton, including maintaining the Rumble Ponies, have heard nothing to very little movement about what the Tigers plans are if Erie's Seawolves cease operations under this proposal

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Wind Surge?

I know I'm making comments regarding the rejection of the Palm Springs Firebirds name/marks (I tend to think it's more about the marks, but that's my warped brain) to say that all the good names are taken. Still... not sure I like be proven correct in THAT manner. Ouch.

Meanwhile, I apologize, but I'm going to poach this directly from Wikipedia.

• Los Angeles Angels (1903–1957) → Spokane Indians (1958–1971) → Albuquerque Dukes (1972–2000) → Portland Beavers (2001–2010) → Tucson Padres (2011–2013) → El Paso Chihuahuas (2014–present)
• Memphis Redbirds (1998–present)
• Oakland Oaks (1903–1955) → Vancouver Mounties (1956–1962) → Dallas-Fort Worth Rangers (1963) → Dallas Rangers (1964) → Vancouver Mounties (1965–1969) → Salt Lake City Bees (1970) → Salt Lake City Angels (1971–1974) → Salt Lake City Gulls (1975–1984) → Calgary Cannons (1985–2002) → Albuquerque Isotopes (2003–present)
• Portland Beavers (1919–1972) → Spokane Indians (1973–1982) → Las Vegas Stars (1983–2000) → Las Vegas 51s (2001–2018) → Las Vegas Aviators (2019–present)
• Portland Beavers (1978–1993) → Salt Lake Buzz (1994–2000) → Salt Lake Stingers (2001–2005) → Salt Lake Bees (2006–present)
• Portland Browns (1903–1904) → Portland Giants (1905) → Portland Beavers (1906–1917)1 → Sacramento Senators (1918–1935) → Sacramento Solons (1936–1960) → Hawaii Islanders (1961–1987) → Colorado Springs Sky Sox (1988–2018) → San Antonio Missions (2019–present)
• Sacramento Senators (1903) → Tacoma Tigers (1904)→ Tacoma Tigers/Sacramento (1905)2 → Fresno Raisin Eaters (1906)3 → Sacramento Sacts (1909–1913) → Sacramento/Mission Wolves (1914) → Salt Lake City Bees (1915–1925) → Hollywood Stars (1926–1935) →San Diego Padres (1936–1968) → Eugene Emeralds (1969–1973) → Sacramento Solons (1974–1976) → San Jose Missions (1977–1978) → Ogden A's (1979–1980) → Edmonton Trappers (1981–2004) → Round Rock Express (2005–present)
• San Francisco Seals (1903–1957) → Phoenix Giants (1958–1959) → Tacoma Giants (1960–1965) → Phoenix Giants (1966–1985) → Phoenix Firebirds (1986–1997) → Tucson Sidewinders (1998–2008)[21]→ Reno Aces (2009–present) [22]
• Seattle Siwashes (1903–1906) → Seattle Rainiers (1919–1921)4 → Seattle Indians (1922–1937) → Seattle Rainiers (1938–1964) → Seattle Angels (1965–1968) → Tucson Toros (1969–1997) → Fresno Grizzlies (1998–present)
• Vancouver Canadians (1978–1999) → Sacramento River Cats (2000–present)
• Vernon Tigers (1909–1912) → Venice Tigers (1913–1914) → Venice/Vernon Tigers (1915) → Vernon Tigers (1916–1925) → Mission Bells (1926–1927) → Mission Reds (1928–1937) → Hollywood Stars (1938–1957) → Salt Lake City Bees (1958–1965) → Tacoma Cubs (1966–1971) → Tacoma Twins (1972–1977) → Tacoma Yankees (1978) → Tacoma Tugs (1979) → Tacoma Tigers (1980–1994) → Tacoma Rainiers (1995–present)
• Evansville Triplets (1970–1984) → Nashville Sounds (1985–present)
• Houston Buffaloes (1959–1961) → Oklahoma City 89ers (1962–1997)5 → Oklahoma RedHawks (1998–2008) → Oklahoma City RedHawks (2009–2014) → Oklahoma City Dodgers (2015–present)
• Iowa Oaks (1969–1981) → Iowa Cubs (1982–present)
• Kansas City Cowboys (1900–1903) → Kansas City Blues (1904–1954) → Denver Bears6 (1955–1984) → Denver Zephyrs (1985–1992) → New Orleans Zephyrs (1993–2016) → New Orleans Baby Cakes (2017–2019) → Wichita Wind Surge (2020–future)
• Omaha Royals (1969–1998) → Omaha Golden Spikes (1999–2001) → Omaha Royals (2002–2010) → Omaha Storm Chasers (2011–present)

Oh don't get me wrong - the IL definitely has had its wild and wooly days in terms of franchise movement, I'm just saying that the "11.5 - 18.5 season lifespan" seems a little erroneous. Here's the IL franchise history

• Wichita Aeros (1970-1984) → Buffalo Bisons (1985-present)
  
• Charlotte Knights (1993-present)
  
• Buffalo Bisons (1902-1970) → Winnipeg Whips (1970-1971) → Peninsula Whips (1972-1973) → Memphis Blues (1974-1976) → Columbus Clippers (1977-present)

• Durham Bulls (1998-present)

• Providence Grays (1902-1904) → Providence Clamdiggers (1905) → Providence Grays (1906-1917) → Binghamton Bingoes (1918-1919) → Syracuse Stars (1920-1927) → Jersey City Skeeters (1928-1933) → Syracuse Chiefs (1934-1955) Miami Marlins (1956-1960) → San Juan Marlins (1961) → Charleston Marlins (1961) → Atlanta Crackers (1962-1965) → Richmond Braves (1966-2008) → Gwinnett Braves (2009-2017) → Gwinnett Stripers (2018-present)

• Indianapolis Indians (1902-1962) → Indianapolis Indians (1969-present)

• Ottawa Lynx (1993-2007) → Lehigh Valley IronPigs (2008-present)

• Tulsa Oilers (1969-1976) → New Orleans Pelicans (1977) → Springfield Redbirds (1978-1981) → Louisville Redbirds (1982-1998) → Louisville RiverBats (1999-2001) → Louisville Bats (2002-present)

• Newark Sailors (1902-1907) → Newark Indians (1908-1914) → Harrisburg Senators (1915) → Newark Indians (1915-1916) → Newark Bears (1917-1919) → Akron Buckeyes (1920) → Newark Bears (1921-1924) → Providence Grays (1925) → Newark Bears (1925-1950) → Springfield Cubs (1950-1953) → Havana Sugar Kings (1954-1960) → Jersey City Jerseys (1960-1961) → Jacksonville Suns (1962-1968) → Tidewater Tides (1969-1992) → Norfolk Tides (1993-present)

• Toronto Maple Leafs (1902-1967) → Louisville Colonels (1968-1972) → Pawtucket Red Sox (1973-1975) → Rhode Island Red Sox (1976) → Pawtucket Red Sox (1977-2020) → Worcester Red Sox (2021-)

• Rochester Bronchos (1902-1911) → Rochester Hustlers (1912-1920) → Rochester Colts (1921) → Rochester Tribe (1922-1927) → Rochester Red Wings (1928-present)

• Worcester Hustlers (1902) → Worcester Riddlers (1903) → Montreal Royals (1903-1917) → Syracuse Stars (1918) → Hamilton Tigers (1918) → Reading Coal Barons (1919) → Reading Marines (1920) → Reading Aces (1921-1922) → Reading Keystones (1923-1932) → Albany Senators (1932-1936) → Jersey City Giants (1937-1950) → Ottawa Giants (1951) → Ottawa A's (1952-1954) → Columbus Jets (1955-1970) → Charleston Charlies (1971-1983) → Maine Guides (1984-1987) → Maine Phillies (1988) → Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Red Barons (1989-2006) → Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Yankees (2007-2012) → Scranton/Wilkes-Barre RailRiders (2013-present)

• Montreal Royals (1902) → Baltimore Orioles (1903-1914) → Richmond Climbers (1915-1916) → Richmond Virginians (1917) → Jersey City Skeeters (1918-1927) → Montreal Royals (1928-1960) → Syracuse Chiefs (1961-1996) → Syracuse SkyChiefs (1997-2006) → Syracuse Chiefs (2007-2018) → Syracuse Mets (2019-present)

• Jersey City Skeeters (1902-1915) → Baltimore Orioles (1916-1953) → Richmond Virginians (1954-1964) → Toledo Mud Hens (1965-present)

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Major League Baseball threatens to create new minor league system - The Boston Globe

 

[KevFu]

A few points on this Kev:

First, Fayetteville's "increase" is a little bit misleading. The team had such a marked increase because the previous two seasons they were playing in a 1,250 person college stadium at Campbell University (located in Buies Creek, NC, about 34 miles/45 minutes from Fayetteville) while they were waiting for Segra Stadium to be built.

Also, I'd love to see your source for the average lifespan of an IL team. Because by my calculations here's how long each current IL team has been in their current market:

(Awesome Chart)

Based on that, even not counting Charlotte and Durham's runs in lower Leagues, that looks like an average of each IL team being in their current city for 47.86 seasons.

I was taking all teams that existed in IL History, total seasons played, combining entries for rebrands I was aware of. I think that might have been misleading for the "American Association" franchises, like Indianapolis who was founded in 1902 but joined the IL in 1998. But I was trying to do it QUICKLY to illustrate a simple point.

But let's do this... Triple A in 1999 (year after last MLB expansion so 30 teams each season) vs The upcoming 2020 configuration:

Colorado Springs, Tucson, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa, Richmond, Pawtucket, New Orleans, have lost franchises. Albuquerque lost a team, and then got one back.

So that's 1/3 of the league turning over in 20 years. Which MAKES SENSE. All of the "Change" in Minor Leagues (and major leagues, in all sports) is totally BALLPARK related. The New Orleans Zephyrs didn't go out of business because Louisiana doesn't like baseball --- Tulane/LSU moved their college games to the Superdome one year and drew 35,000 fans because both teams were coming off CWS appearances. The Super Regionals were moved to Zephyr Field (13,500) and sold out instantly. Louisiana is a great baseball region... New Orleans lost the Zephyrs because in the span of 25 years their stadium went from being one of the newest, nicest and best in Triple A, to one of the oldest and not as nice in Triple A.

THAT was my point: Minor League teams don't "Fail" due to baseball being unprofitable in a market. It's 100% stadium related issues, where New Orleans won't build a new stadium, and Wichita will.