koyvoo
Registered User
- Nov 8, 2014
- 17,271
- 17,059
leafs fans went to great lengths here to herald Kessel as a top 10 player in the leagues until the day he was traded. Then it was a whiplash 180 on the opinion.
Mitch Marner vs Phil Kessel
- Thread starter TmlHockeyFan
- Start date
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
Seriously, Leafs fans are still suffering from PTSD from Kessel losing a few polls and being made fun of back in the day, yet now that he is being polled against a current Maple Leaf, he really was fat, lazy, bad defensively, and responsible for them losing...
SHANNYPLAN
Registered User
- Nov 24, 2016
- 5,224
- 2,609
I don’t think he was EVER regarded as a top 10 player. Top 10 winger yes, Player No.
And he was great for us while we had him, he drove the teams offence playing with Tyler Bozak his entire time here. Most leafs fans wish him nothing but the best with the Pens and we’re happy fore him when he won the cup (twice)
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
Point finishes should be taken into consideration, as should other metrics like adjusted points, quality of teammates, sample sizes, etc.
Right now Marner is on pace for 109 adjusted points, Phil Kessel paced for 99 in the lockout season and has had over 90 adjusted points in 3 other seasons.
You can’t ignore the scoring rates of this 2018-2019 season. As I recall, they’re much closer to the 2005-2006 season than they are to the 3 seasons where Kessel was 2nd in league scoring over the entire time frame.
The Crypto Guy
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2017
- 26,577
- 33,819
Watching Phil Kessel in his prime was special. He had speed like Mackinnon, a shot like Danny Heatley and vision like Crosby. In "theory" he should have been a generational level talent.
I don't want to sound to hyperbolic here, but watching Kessel was different. His vision and ability to create out of nothing was almost godly. I always felt like Kessel had generational talent, similar to the level of Crosby. Watching his pure talent was watching someone on another level then Tavares. Kessel's ability to shoot and pass at such an elite level was unique.
For some reason, he peaked as a 90 point winger instead of a consistent 100 point player, which I felt was his real potential.
He always had concerns about his cardio, back checking and defensive play. Warranted or not, it was always talked about.
What made him a career 75-80 point guy instead of an elite top 3 player was consistency and lack of defence.
Marner is much better defensively then Kessel from what i've seen. He also may end up being the better player because of consistency.
But in terms of pure offence, there isn't many wingers I would take ahead of Kessel in a playoff series. Kessel won 2 cups and he's a huge reason why the Pens ended with 3 cups in that era instead of 1 or 2. I was shocked no team was willing to pay a little more to the leafs to get a player like that.
I don't want to sound to hyperbolic here, but watching Kessel was different. His vision and ability to create out of nothing was almost godly. I always felt like Kessel had generational talent, similar to the level of Crosby. Watching his pure talent was watching someone on another level then Tavares. Kessel's ability to shoot and pass at such an elite level was unique.
For some reason, he peaked as a 90 point winger instead of a consistent 100 point player, which I felt was his real potential.
He always had concerns about his cardio, back checking and defensive play. Warranted or not, it was always talked about.
What made him a career 75-80 point guy instead of an elite top 3 player was consistency and lack of defence.
Marner is much better defensively then Kessel from what i've seen. He also may end up being the better player because of consistency.
But in terms of pure offence, there isn't many wingers I would take ahead of Kessel in a playoff series. Kessel won 2 cups and he's a huge reason why the Pens ended with 3 cups in that era instead of 1 or 2. I was shocked no team was willing to pay a little more to the leafs to get a player like that.
Pyrophorus
Registered User
Pyrophorus
Registered User
Wasn't his best season last year?
Both Marner and Kessel had the same linemates
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
It depends on whether you look at just points or whether or not you look at adjusted points and goals, rank in points and goals, and consider other factors like quality of teammates and opponents, percentage of scoring that is done at even strength (if you believe ESP are more valuable than PPP), defensive play, playoff performance, etc...
Marner is currently playing with John Tavares.
