Mitch Marner vs Phil Kessel
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Randy Randerson
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GlitchMarner
Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
Kessel had some high scoring finishes in TOR despite not having a great C. Marner has Tavares now.
I'm not sure Marner will surpass his offensive peak (it may happen, but it won't be a shame if he doesn't), but I do prefer his all-around game to Phil's. He just has more jam and seems to have more interest in defense and even plays on the PK.
Kessel is arguably still in his prime. I'd rather have Marner than prime Phil on the current Leafs and moving forward and I like Kessel.
I'm not sure Marner will surpass his offensive peak (it may happen, but it won't be a shame if he doesn't), but I do prefer his all-around game to Phil's. He just has more jam and seems to have more interest in defense and even plays on the PK.
Kessel is arguably still in his prime. I'd rather have Marner than prime Phil on the current Leafs and moving forward and I like Kessel.
Marner's downfall is he can't shoot where as Kessel has a lethal shot and he's still one of the better vision and playmaking players in the league.
I bet Tavares would have more points playing with Kessel because he would be getting more assists
I bet Tavares would have more points playing with Kessel because he would be getting more assists
Wow! Talk about recency bias!
Kessel in his prime was a beast offensively.
Marner may get there if he plays like this all season but it’s still too early.
Kessel in his prime was a beast offensively.
Marner may get there if he plays like this all season but it’s still too early.
Look, I love Marner. But Kessel brought so much more than just scoring to the table. The man is second only to Jokinen for Photoshop Gold.
flamesforcup
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VoluntaryDom
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eh both like to score goals but can pass just as well. I think kessel would be more of a playmaker with some decent goal totals.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Marner is tracking to be the better player. But that’s no slight against Kessel, whose by fat the best goal scorer of the two.
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sessiroth
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The Podium
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Toss up offensively, Kessel is the better goal scorer, Marner the play maker.
I chose Marner for everything he does away from the puck that Kessel never could.
Didnt work with Crosby, cant imagine Tavares making a difference.
I chose Marner for everything he does away from the puck that Kessel never could.
Didnt work with Crosby, cant imagine Tavares making a difference.
AuraSphere
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Honestly, Leaf fans probably can give the least bias opinion on this one since they've viewed both play. Marner is the better player.
Pyrophorus
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TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
I don’t get it.
Phil Kessel had back to back Conn Smythe worthy runs, and then scored 93 points in the following season.
Mitchell Marner’s career high is 69 points.
Phil Kessel had back to back Conn Smythe worthy runs, and then scored 93 points in the following season.
Mitchell Marner’s career high is 69 points.
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If we are comparing to Leafs' Kessel, I'd have to say Marner, cause apparently everybody and their dog was better than Kessel when he was a Leaf.
filinski77
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Kessel's best year was 2011/2012 where he finished 6th in goals and 6th in points. Contra argument being that he was 23 goals back from first in goals, and 27 points back from first.
I don't see Marner ever being top 10 in goals, but a top 5 point finish or 2 isn't out of the picture. So it's pretty close in my opinion.
I don't see Marner ever being top 10 in goals, but a top 5 point finish or 2 isn't out of the picture. So it's pretty close in my opinion.
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
His best season was 2013-2014 where he finished 5th in goals and 6th in points. He also had two other seasons where he was 7th in points.
Over a 3-year period, he was 2nd in the NHL in points and 4th in goals.
Over a 2-year period where he won 2 Stanley Cups, he was 1st in the NHL in playoff goals and 3rd in the NHL in playoff points. (1 behind Crosby and Malkin for 1st)
filinski77
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The reason I said 2011-2012 was because he was still 10th in points/gp that season. In 2013-2014 Kessel was 15th in points/gp (min 20 games). So with the actual finishes being almost identical, I gave him the season with the better points/gp, but I see what you mean.
The 3 year span is a bit disingenuous because he was T-6th in points/gp and by a decent margin from Giroux, Stammer, Malkin, Crosby. It's no different than Marner possibly putting up bigger aggregate numbers, due to injuries from Mcdavid, Mackinnon, Matthews, Kucherov.
I'm not saying Kessel's wasn't great at his prime, just that Marner has the potential to be up there as well
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
Right, that’s fair. And for the record I didn’t watch a ton of Kessel in those seasons, so if you think one of those was the best, I’ll take your word for it. Just think the top-5 goal finish was worth noting.
I don’t think it’s disingenuous if you’re talking to somebody who knows what the numbers mean and if you’re not pushing an agenda entirely based off those numbers. Claude Giroux was 1st in points in that time frame and nobody thinks he was the best player. However, a guy who was good enough and healthy to be 2nd in points over 3 seasons...that’s a player right there.
And before just being healthy, that’s a f***ing good player. He was also 7th in points per game over that time frame. And it’s harder to maintain a great pace when you play that many games.
And yeah, Marner could be up there. He’s incredible. But right now I would go with the sure thing in Kessel.
Mitch Marner is on pace for 109 points this year. Obviously only 30 games in - but he's fairly consistent so far, and 30 games isn't 10, so we'll see where he ends up - i'm guessing at ppg at the least. It took Phil 6 years to reach a PPG pace. This is Marner's 3rd year. In 13 career seasons, Phil only has 4 ppg seasons (including current season 28 games in). His last season at 92 points is his best one - after that his best hit 82, 80 points.
He did have 2 really strong playoffs no question - but that's hardly all-time great ones that another star player on a great team couldn't match. Not sure those alone make him some playoff hero you can't pass up.
I get that development isn't linear, and who knows what heights Marner reach and what consistency he ends up having too. But I think based on where he is today, surpassing Kessel as a player is not only well within his reach, but also very likely. So I picked him.
