Mitch Marner Versus Blake Wheeler

[Pyrophorus]

"We suck at power play so lets ignore that and just focus on 5v5" Haha

Let me clarify. We're 31st in PP opportunities.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Ovechkin had 48, Marchessault had 44. unless you mean by a per minute basis, but then Marchessault also outscored Ovechkin in a per minute basis if you look at all strengths. Powerplay points are too dependent on opportunity and coaching to pretend they're as meaningful as 5v5 points, even if you were able to come up with a proper exception.

Ahhh sweet savory hypocrisy.

I remember you giving me flak for looking exclusively at 5v5....and look at this now.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Ahhh sweet savory hypocrisy.

I remember you giving me flak for looking exclusively at 5v5....and look at this now.

you're probably getting the facts wrong, like usual. I always separate by strengths when comparing players. Feel free to call me out if I ever don't

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

you're probably getting the facts wrong, like usual. I always separate by strengths when comparing players. Feel free to call me out if I ever don't

No, I didn’t get facts wrong. You didn’t like the facts and decided they were wrong.

glad that you love looking exclusively at 5v5 play going by your posts in the Leafs defense thread

You said that I focused entirely on 5v5 shot rates. Cherry picking. Which is exactly what you’re doing in this thread.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

No, I didn’t get facts wrong. You didn’t like the facts and decided they were wrong, like usual.

You said that I focused entirely on 5v5 shot rates and why it was bad. And here you are.

Hypocrisy.

link? I'm pretty sure you were using all strengths in one comparison, and exclusively at 5v5 in another and I called you out for being a hypocrite like that. I highly doubt it happened as you're saying

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

link? I'm pretty sure you were using all strengths in one comparison, and exclusively at 5v5 in another and I called you out for being a hypocrite like that. I highly doubt it happened as you're saying

Read above.

I was also using a 5v5 shot heat map that bled scoring chances against by Micah McCurdy.

So like I said: you’re being a hypocrite.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Read above.

I was also using a 5v5 shot heat map that bled scoring chances against by Micah McCurdy.

So like I said: you’re being a hypocrite.

yes, that's not criticizing you for using 5v5 rates. it's holding you to it, since you love to change your criteria on a whim. glad we could clear that up

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

yes, that's not criticizing you for using 5v5 rates. it's holding you to it, since you love to change your criteria on a whim. glad we could clear that up

Likewise, youre using criteria when it benefits your player. You weren’t holding me accountable lol. I was using it correctly.

You’re doing the exact same thing. You’re being a hypocrite.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Likewise, youre using criteria when it benefits your player.

You’re doing the exact same thing. You’re being a hypocrite.

no, I'm not. As I said, I always break down comparisons into different strengths and focus primarily on 5v5 rates. Literally every time, unless I'm feeling lazy. Feel free to call me out when I try to lump every strength together though, since I am pretty open about not liking that

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

no, I'm not. As I said, I always break down comparisons into different strengths and focus primarily on 5v5 rates. Literally every time, unless I'm feeling lazy. Feel free to call me out when I try to lump every strength together though, since I am pretty open about not liking that

No, you’re not getting it. You tried calling me out because I was using 5v5 exclusively. You’re now looking at Marners production at 5v5 as being the reason why he’s better than Wheeler.

You’re Doing The Exact Same Thing

Of course you won’t admit to how hypocritical this is. Go figure.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

No, you’re not getting it. You tried calling me out because I was using 5v5 exclusively. You’re now looking at Marners production at 5v5 as being the reason why he’s better than Wheeler.

You’re Doing The Exact Same Thing

Of course you won’t admit to how hypocritical this is. Go figure.

"yes, that's not criticizing you for using 5v5 rates. it's holding you to it, since you love to change your criteria on a whim. glad we could clear that up"
what part of that makes you think I was trying to call you out for using 5v5 rates? what part of me saying 5v5 rates are always good makes you think I would even do it? you clearly misunderstood what was happening, and are trying to use it as some sort of call out when nothing you're going for is making any sense

 

[snowkiddin]

31st in powerplays not power play percentage genius.

Not sure why but two years in a row now Toronto has been last place in the # of powerplays received. Gord Miller and Ray Ferraro suggested the Leafs don’t get PPs because the refs think their power play is really good. So the jury is out on that one.

Gord Miller and Ray Ferraro are idiots if they’re suggesting that

 

[LeafsNation75]

Gord Miller and Ray Ferraro are idiots if they’re suggesting that

So you don't think the Leafs starting off very hot on their power play chances earlier this season and now being last in the league in power play minutes has something to do with it? Like I said before the refs all have biases even if they won't admit it and maybe they didn't like seeing the Leafs scoring on the power play every time they did early in the season.

 

[Peggy]

So you don't think the Leafs starting off very hot on their power play chances earlier this season and now being last in the league in power play minutes has something to do with it? Like I said before the refs all have biases even if they won't admit it and maybe they didn't like seeing the Leafs scoring on the power play every time they did early in the season.

What a conspiracy

 

[Snowman]

So you don't think the Leafs starting off very hot on their power play chances earlier this season and now being last in the league in power play minutes has something to do with it? Like I said before the refs all have biases even if they won't admit it and maybe they didn't like seeing the Leafs scoring on the power play every time they did early in the season.

I bet the referees are all on HFBoards and are the same Leaf haters that always vote against the Leafs in every poll. That's why the Leafs don't get any power plays!

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

So you don't think the Leafs starting off very hot on their power play chances earlier this season and now being last in the league in power play minutes has something to do with it? Like I said before the refs all have biases even if they won't admit it and maybe they didn't like seeing the Leafs scoring on the power play every time they did early in the season.

Every god damn thread it’s the World out against the precious Maple Leafs.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

"yes, that's not criticizing you for using 5v5 rates. it's holding you to it, since you love to change your criteria on a whim. glad we could clear that up"
what part of that makes you think I was trying to call you out for using 5v5 rates? what part of me saying 5v5 rates are always good makes you think I would even do it? you clearly misunderstood what was happening, and are trying to use it as some sort of call out when nothing you're going for is making any sense

I don’t know how clear I have to point it out.

You tried calling me out for using 5v5 metrics exclusively when it came to the chances the Maple Leafs were giving up.

You said that I had to look at all situations.

Fast forward three months later, you’re doing the exact. f***ing. Thing. You tried to call me out on.

That’s not me being confused. That’s you being hypocritical.

The end.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I don’t know how clear I have to point it out.

You tried calling me out for using 5v5 metrics exclusively when it came to the chances the Maple Leafs were giving up.

You said that I had to look at all situations.

Fast forward three months later, you’re doing the exact. ****ing. Thing. You tried to call me out on.

That’s why you’re being hypocritical. The end.

quick question but how many times do I have to tell you that's not what happened before you grasp that? hopefully only one more. I was not calling you out/attempting to call you out for looking at 5v5 data

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

quick question but how many times do I have to tell you that's not what happened before you grasp that? hopefully only one more. I was not calling you out/attempting to call you out for looking at 5v5 data

And how many times do I have to tell you that’s exactly what’s happening?

You’re trying to interpret it differently.

Look at the original quote. And look how you go all in at 5v5 rates.

You’re being a hypocrite. It’s okay.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

And how many times do I have to tell you that’s exactly what’s happening?

You’re trying to interpret it differently.

Look at the original quote. And look how you go all in at 5v5 rates.

You’re being a hypocrite. It’s okay.

nowhere in the original quote do I say that you were wrong to look at 5v5 rates, so you're going to have to find where I actually said that
hey, look at this though:
Nate MacKinnon or Auston Matthews for the next decade?

I guess derailing this thread now is okay, because you're doing it

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

nowhere in the original quote do I say that you were wrong to look at 5v5 rates, so you're going to have to find where I actually said that
hey, look at this though:
Nate MacKinnon or Auston Matthews for the next decade?

I guess derailing this thread now is okay, because you're doing it

In that Leafs defence thread, I argued that the Leafs didn’t have a top five defence because of the chances they were giving up at 5v5.

You’re right: you didn’t outwardly say using 5v5 was wrong. But the snide ness, about using just 5v5 was apparent. You can twist and turn, but cmon. You’re not fooling anyone.

So sure, let’s drop it. Just remember next time when you chastise someone for using one metric and then doubling down on the same metric makes you look like amighty big hypocrite.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Every god damn thread it’s the World out against the precious Maple Leafs.

All I did was say how the Leafs are last in power play opportunities and gave a theory of mine.

Now in tonight's game Nylander got his stick slashed out of his hands when Toronto had a power play, however the refs didn't call it and give them a 5 v3. At the start of the 3rd off a faceoff Hyman gets that exact penalty, so there was no consistency. Finally late in the 3rd Stamkos does a clear high stick on Tavares which does not get called.

 

[Dache]

All I did was say how the Leafs are last in power play opportunities and gave a theory of mine.

Now in tonight's game Nylander got his stick slashed out of his hands when Toronto had a power play, however the refs didn't call it and give them a 5 v3. At the start of the 3rd off a faceoff Hyman gets that exact penalty, so there was no consistency. Finally late in the 3rd Stamkos does a clear high stick on Tavares which does not get called.

It’s almost like there are bad/missed calls in every NHL game.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

This is Wheeler. Absolutely dominant force on the ice. In terms of pure value Marner obviously would win because of the huge age gap. But just in terms of right now, it's Wheeler.


It's actually quite shocking that now almost 50 games into the season, we have 3 players in Kuhcerov(53 in 47), Wheeler(51 in 46), and Rantanen(50 in 47) that are still over one assist per game. The fact Mikko and Kuch are also pacing for 30+ goals only adds to it.

 

[shelf]

Marner with 13 goals in his last 14 games. Proving to be a more than just an assist machine.