Speculation: Mitch Marner Mega Thread Part 11 (Mod Note in OP)

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Kamiccolo

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I’ve been saying Dubas is a nerd who doesn’t have the respect of his players for well over a year and leafs fans have just replied with whining that I’m “trolling” but it’s so clearly true. You had a great core leaf fans but this clown isn’t gonna be able to keep it together.

What about the past few years suggests that? He's proven literally everyone wrong from getting out of cap hell just a few months ago, to getting 2/3 signed of the "big three", to even getting Tavares to come home.
 

Merrrlin

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I’ve been saying Dubas is a nerd who doesn’t have the respect of his players for well over a year and leafs fans have just replied with whining that I’m “trolling” but it’s so clearly true. You had a great core leaf fans but this clown isn’t gonna be able to keep it together.

Maybe people just don't respect your opinion because your posts seem heavily bias?
 

Kamiccolo

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I agree that Dreger has sort of been caught up in this and seems to be going to bat for Ferris, but wouldn't this make sense for them to actually do?

I would bet it's not fake, they likely have contacted Zurich, and are making it public to put more pressure on Dubas. Whether Mitch would play a year there seems doubtful (Dreger never said he was going to), but training there before the season? I don't see that as an unlikely scenario if he isn't signed.

Again, you're right that it's obviously Dreger posturing on behalf of Ferris, but I don't think it's a bluff. I would bet they've done exactly what Dreger says they've done (in regards to contacting Zurich).

My bluff comment was more about Marner never considering actually going, not that they didn't actually contact the team. It takes a phone call from the agent to go "there we contacted them, now Dreger put it out on twitter".
 

Canadienna

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My bluff comment was more about Marner never considering actually going, not that they didn't actually contact the team. It takes a phone call from the agent to go "there we contacted them, now Dreger put it out on twitter".

So you don't think there is any chance that Marner goes there to train before the season if he's not signed?

I think it's a good idea, he'll be more prepared if they sign him at the start of the regular season that way.
 

Nizdizzle

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He really bent to their will by letting Nylander sit out for half a season :sarcasm:

RFAs are asking for bigger money. I don't blame Chia, I don't blame Botterill, I don't blame Dubas. I just think players are finally understanding they are worth more in these RFA years, and are pushing back.

Paying your best players isn't the problem, it's handing out Marleau/Lucic/Ladd type contracts. Big cap% for previous performance/legacy.
This is somewhat the problem. Someone is going to get squeezed, and it sure seems to me like the logical target is the 30+YO UFAs. The problem is, a couple of good UFAs are available most every offseason, while good RFAs are almost random when you're going to have to pay out to keep them. To prepare for a big RFA contracts teams are going to have to start planning on having large amounts of capspace available like 3 years ahead. A lot of times it comes unexpectedly (see how last offseason most people would have ridiculed an $8.5+ contract for Marner). It really makes it a difficult situation for cap teams as they balance utilizing all their cap-space, while maintaining flexibility if their youth exceeds expectations. Its tempting to sign that key UFA piece available right now, rather than have $5+M sitting unused incase your young star breaks out this year. I would like to think this means we see a lot more 1/2 year deals for UFAs rather than longer term ones.
 

Merrrlin

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This is somewhat the problem. Someone is going to get squeezed, and it sure seems to me like the logical target is the 30+YO UFAs. The problem is, a couple of good UFAs are available most every offseason, while good RFAs are almost random when you're going to have to pay out to keep them. To prepare for a big RFA contracts teams are going to have to start planning on having large amounts of capspace available like 3 years ahead. A lot of times it comes unexpectedly (see how last offseason most people would have ridiculed an $8.5+ contract for Marner). It really makes it a difficult situation for cap teams as they balance utilizing all their cap-space, while maintaining flexibility if their youth exceeds expectations. Its tempting to sign that key UFA piece available right now, rather than have $5+M sitting unused incase your young star breaks out this year. I would like to think this means we see a lot more 1/2 year deals for UFAs rather than longer term ones.

I don't see an issue with any of this. Good young players should not be sacrificing contract dollars to make the cap work or to beef up UFA contracts in my opinion.

If a 70 point UFA winger gets 7-8 million, why should a 20 year old RFA winger take 6?
 

TS Quint

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So supposedly the other big RFAs are all waiting for Marner to sign his deal so that their agents can use it to negotiate their new deal but comparables on other teams shouldn't be used for Marner's new deal?
Do you not see how anyone suggesting this comes across as either biased or stupid?
You are right everyone should be looking to every team for comparables on players from every team. I think what is being said is the agents/ players are waiting on Marner’s contract first because Dubas first over paid Nylander then he under termed Matthews based on their compareables. The agents have identified Dubas as the weak link.

Every fan with a big RFA should be cheering for Dubas to sign a good contract with Marner rather than cheering against the Leafs and hoping Marner gets overpaid.
 

CupsOverCash

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I agree that Dreger has sort of been caught up in this and seems to be going to bat for Ferris, but wouldn't this make sense for them to actually do?

I would bet it's not fake, they likely have contacted Zurich, and are making it public to put more pressure on Dubas. Whether Mitch would play a year there seems doubtful (Dreger never said he was going to), but training there before the season? I don't see that as an unlikely scenario if he isn't signed.

Again, you're right that it's obviously Dreger posturing on behalf of Ferris, but I don't think it's a bluff. I would bet they've done exactly what Dreger says they've done (in regards to contacting Zurich).

Well maybe he will go over there to train like Nylander did but there is no threat of him going over there to play there instead of NHL. I doubt this made Dubas shake much.
 

Kamiccolo

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So you don't think there is any chance that Marner goes there to train before the season if he's not signed?

I think it's a good idea, he'll be more prepared if they sign him at the start of the regular season that way.

Anything is possible. I just think it's unlikely. I think this is Marner's camp screaming and shouting to get the best deal possible, and Marner will sign whichever one he likes best come training camp.

Everything I have heard is Marner has no intention of playing anywhere else this year.
 
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Cor

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It's probably more like he's banking Dubas will cave as Marner sitting for a full year is one less year for the Leafs window to the Cup with Tavares. That's the only leverage left.

I assume that will work just as well as the offer sheet leverage or any of the other “leverages”
 
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NextYear67

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I’ve been saying Dubas is a nerd who doesn’t have the respect of his players for well over a year and leafs fans have just replied with whining that I’m “trolling” but it’s so clearly true. You had a great core leaf fans but this clown isn’t gonna be able to keep it together.
Weird, cuz its pretty much in tact. And why's he a clown?
 

Nizdizzle

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I don't see an issue with any of this. Good young players should not be sacrificing contract dollars to make the cap work or to beef up UFA contracts in my opinion.

If a 70 point UFA winger gets 7-8 million, why should a 20 year old RFA winger take 6?
I didn't say there was any issue, just that it changes the entire dynamic that the league has run on for a while now. Older players took low pay during their prime years expecting to get a payout during their UFA years. Now it looks like that won't happen for them (or at least not as much as they might have hoped for). It just presents a problem for teams based on how RFA deals work and young players developing rapidly. Teams are going to have to future proof themselves a lot more than they've needed to in the past due to RFA players wanting their payday now, rather than waiting for UFA.
 
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kgboomer

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I assume that will work just as well as the offer sheet leverage or any of the other “leverages”
Well it got done in the last 5 minutes before deadline in Nylander's case. There's plenty of time to get a deal done.

More likely, I expect him to miss only a handful of regular season games. You would think common sense will prevail this time...
 

joplin

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They really need to do something with this RFA rules. Just sign those damn players so everybody can move on. It's becoming really tiring, you don't see those things happening in any other major sports
 

Madap

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I don't see an issue with any of this. Good young players should not be sacrificing contract dollars to make the cap work or to beef up UFA contracts in my opinion.

If a 70 point UFA winger gets 7-8 million, why should a 20 year old RFA winger take 6?
I see it as that both players are worth 6 million, however you always have to overpay to get a UFA on your team since you're bidding against everyone else. You don't have to bid against everyone else when it comes to RFAs so you can actually pay them what they are worth.
 

Canadienna

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Anything is possible. I just think it's unlikely. I think this is Marner's camp screaming and shouting to get the best deal possible, and Marner will sign whichever one he likes best come training camp.

Everything I have heard is Marner has no intention of playing anywhere else this year.

That's fair, and I agree about him playing the season over there, doesn't make any sense.

But it's also not what Dreger is claiming, at all! Seems like everybody in this thread is reading that tweet too quickly. All he says is they've contacted them and he wouldn't be surprised to see him train there.

He even says "in early Sept", making it more clear he's not talking about him playing the year overseas.
 

CupsOverCash

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Maybe it would be a circus. However, Dubas keeps saying they are going to get him signed. Would it really be that big of a distraction because the GM says it will get done? That should be reassuring for the team, player, and fans/media. It would benefit him to be there and also would probably get a deal done quicker I would think. That would require some cool and calm from all that I mentioned there but that tweet is probably right. It would be a circus lol.
 
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