Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VIII | We Waitin'

[The CyNick]

oh come on not even you truly believe this. There is just no way MLSE care what intact insurance thinks

They actually do. Companies are either existing or potential advertisers. And at the very least they buy tickets. Apple is another one. Big partner of both Rogers and Bell. Don't know if you heard, but they have a small stake in what happens at MLSE.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Because a portion of this board would praise him if he traded matthews for a 1st. They think he's a genius. I think because he wears glasses. Or he's young. Maybe both.

You are the most transparent Dubas hater I've seen on here, not even close.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Because a portion of this board would praise him if he traded matthews for a 1st. They think he's a genius. I think because he wears glasses. Or he's young. Maybe both.

No matter what Dubas does, you take sarcastic shots at him, referring to him as the "young" GM etc.

Do you see the irony here or have you no self-awareness at all?

 

[ORRFForever]

That's what I think too.

I have faith and I'm not about to let a couple tweets rile me up like some people around here!

People's attention spans are so short and people get so easily distracted.

Nylander is the exception because he played so poorly after returning.

 

[BallardEra]

You get the feeling Paul wants 4-5 years and the Leafs prefer 6-8.

 

[Walshy7]

So if paid Nylander 8.5m to get the deal done on time, you'd be happy with that? Why do I find that hard to believe?

come on Gaz, get with the program.

Duabs signs nylander $8M on time to start the season "dubas is an idiot id have made nylander sit"
Dubas makes him sit then $7M "dubas is an idiot he totally caved"

there is a clear narrative and it is a lot of posters had their hearts set on hunter, hunter didn't get the gig (or any gig still!) and to the day dubas is fired or leaves they will turn every little thing into a "stupid dubas" post

 

[Menzinger]

Chris Johnson on the 31 Thoughts podcast said Dubas' comments on not a guarantee to matching offersheets big driver in scaring Kap and AJ to sign.

Also says hes expecting Marner not to get an offersheet

 

[yubbers]

Your saying Dubas caved but he did the exact opposite of caving. It's insane.

You act like there was only 1 side to that negotiation. The player chose to sit out as well.

Correct. The player chose to sit out cause a deal couldn't be made. If Willy was really asking for 8 million... that alone should've let you know he was a problem.

The whole thing was a disaster. And now you're using baseless speculation to say it wasn't. I'll go with the facts over speculation. He set a record for holding out on the cap era. Nothing good about that. And even that speculation points to why we should've let him sit. 8 mil.... bahahaha.

 

[The CyNick]

You are the most transparent Dubas hater I've seen on here, not even close.

I don't hate anyone. That's not in me.
I don't like his moves so far, but I hope he turns his career around or gets fired quickly.

If anything I have a problem with his supporters who grasp at threads to credit him (Tavares, Marlies, etc) but then can't admit glaring mistakes that likely cost us a cup or at least a finals appearance, even though he himself has admitted he screwed them up. It's baffling to me.

 

[4thline]

You keep saying this but keep evasively refusing to answer what I asked you...

I asked specifically which of Nylander or Marner will have exercised worse PR:

1) Nylander - holds out 28 games + training camp to squeeze money and hurt the team competitively
2) Marner - for allegedly updating Darren Dreger of his negotiations

I didn't ask anything else other than who did the Leafs worse? Simple question.

The floor is yours Reader Rabbit.

Try answering it this time.

I call you illiterate because of this.. not seeing answers that are clearly given.

Your initial question was tendered with the caveat of Marner signing before camp. It has nothing to do with the public's reaction to Marner holding out, because well, that would require a holdout wouldn't it?

Hypothetically though, if Marner signs before training camp commences - who is less selfish or who came off worse in the court of public opinion:

1) The guy who sat himself out of training camp and 28 games of the season to get more money
2) The guy who Darren Dreger tweeted about

I provided three scenerios.
One covering off the topic I posted about

The one I very specifically outlined was Marner holding out after failing to get the resolution he wants via offersheet. The optics of that will be much worse than Nylander.

Where he both holds out AND has previously damaged the relationship through a bad public strategy

And two where he doesn't holdout and the situation is resolved (not covered under his media play making a holdout worse)

He gets what he wants via offersheet (whether tendered or leveraged). Good for him, he was right and got his market value. Some among LN will grumble, but most will come around and support him. As long as he lives up to the contract he'll be back to golden boy.

He offersheet is a flop, he signs for less than he wants. This negotiation will be forgotten, back to golden boy.

To simplify things:

Contract in place, no holdout = Good
Holdout, no public posturing and market testing= Bad
Holdout after Public posturing and market testing = Worse

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It was reported Nylander wasn't budging from $8.5m. It was discussed by both parties and the media that Nylander party called Dubas in the final stretch. Nylander signed for $7m.

Yet, it's still considered by some that it is Dubas who caved. This just doesn't have any legs to it.

Totally agree, but I believe Nylander wanted 8, and technically Nylander signed for the equivalence of 7.5 mill, which was just cut down to 7 mill after the holdout thing.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Correct. The player chose to sit out cause a deal couldn't be made. If Willy was really asking for 8 million... that alone should've let you know he was a problem.

The whole thing was a disaster. And now you're using baseless speculation to say it wasn't. I'll go with the facts over speculation. He set a record for holding out on the cap era. Nothing good about that. And even that speculation points to why we should've let him sit. 8 mil.... bahahaha.

So where in there did Dubas Cave ?

Adding a laugh to the end of your post to deflect the conversation doesn't prove anything.

Dubas hasn't done a perfect job (No GM ever has) but at least blame him for things that actually happened, not your made up crap.

 

[Menzinger]

Ask Nashville fans what they thought of their captain Weber signing an offer-sheet (that was matched) with Philly I guess...

Well considering he was traded afterwards, that relationship between team and player was gone for good.

An offersheet means the player is prepared to spend the rest of his career on another team. A clear sign they want out.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Totally agree, but I believe Nylander wanted 8, and technically Nylander signed for the equivalence of 7.5 mill, which was just cut down to 7 mill after the holdout thing.

The guy makes 7 mil no more no less, why skew the numbers.

 

[yubbers]

So if paid Nylander 8.5m to get the deal done on time, you'd be happy with that? Why do I find that hard to believe?

Not at all. I said not a done over pasta money from the beginning. If he was asking for 8.5.... That's all I would've needed to hear to know he's not pay off the plan.

I know it's easier to make a call like that from my arm chair.... But turns out I was right. He's be worth more now unsigned in the trade market. Nobody touching him with a 10 for pole unless we eat it hard.

It was all so predictable. That's what frustrates me

 

[The CyNick]

No matter what Dubas does, you take sarcastic shots at him, referring to him as the "young" GM etc.

Do you see the irony here or have you no self-awareness at all?

I don't even recall the last time I used that term. If you equate young to me insulting him, well that's on you Pal, not me.

I don't know if you have ever responded to one of my posts before, but I'm very careful with the words I choose. I prefer to just lay out facts. If people think the facts equate to him being a terrible GM, then so be it. But I've never used the term young to standalone as an insult.

 

[Walshy7]

Chris Johnson on the 31 Thoughts podcast said Dubas' comments on not a guarantee to matching offersheets big driver in scaring Kap and AJ to sign.

Also says hes expecting Marner not to get an offersheet

oh no, will paul be able to swallow his pride and accept they over valued and overplayed their hand? I think not, Paul is getting prepped to sit out training camp I bet, Mitch doesn't get a say because this is Daddy's dream and he will let nothing like having no hockey talent himself get in his way.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I don't hate anyone. That's not in me.
I don't like his moves so far, but I hope he turns his career around or gets fired quickly.

If anything I have a problem with his supporters who grasp at threads to credit him (Tavares, Marlies, etc) but then can't admit glaring mistakes that likely cost us a cup or at least a finals appearance, even though he himself has admitted he screwed them up. It's baffling to me.

You are the biggest hypocrite. You literally do that with every post about Dubas.

The guy has been pretty damn good in his time here. Has he been perfect, no. But that's basically impossible.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

The guy makes 7 mil no more no less, why skew the numbers.

Purpose of clarity. The more factually correct you are, the less someone can try to skew it according to their own beliefs.

Since Nylander lost money by holding out, yes he makes the equivalence of 7 mill over the course of his deal.

 

[ORRFForever]

I don't understand Marner at this point. Perhaps it's because I'm older and my ego dried up long ago (along with my sex drive - only half joking), but I'd want this wrapped up, and I wouldn't let a few hundred thousand dollars stand in my way.

After all, a million things can go wrong between now and signing. A car accident, a fall, etc, and the Leafs interest would drop like a stone.

Sign the contract, Mitch, and get on with your life.

 

[yubbers]

So where in there did Dubas Cave ?

Adding a laugh to the end of your post to deflect the conversation doesn't prove anything.

Dubas hasn't done a perfect job (No GM ever has) but at least blame him for things that actually happened, not your made up crap.

I consider anything over pasta money caving. So signing that deal alone is caving in my books. We don't know honestly who caved. What we do know is it hurt the team and Nylanders value.

Like I said.... It really couldn't get any worse. Other than signing him for 8 which would've gotten him fired. Lirl

 

[The CyNick]

oh no, will paul be able to swallow his pride and accept they over valued and overplayed their hand? I think not, Paul is getting prepped to sit out training camp I bet, Mitch doesn't get a say because this is Daddy's dream and he will let nothing like having no hockey talent himself get in his way.

What strange hatred for a random person.

It's weird how personal some of you take a negotiation.

Were you upset when the GM backed Shanny in a corner for more money and a promotion? Did you get fired up and start insulting his Dad??

 

[Menzinger]

You keep saying this but keep evasively refusing to answer what I asked you...

I asked specifically which of Nylander or Marner will have exercised worse PR:

1) Nylander - holds out 28 games + training camp to squeeze money and hurt the team competitively
2) Marner - for allegedly updating Darren Dreger of his negotiations

I didn't ask anything else other than who did the Leafs worse? Simple question.

The floor is yours Reader Rabbit.

Try answering it this time.

Name another star RFA that publically sought to secure offersheet. You cant because its unprecedented behavior.

Players not being signed before the season starts is a fairly common occurrence. The Nylander negotiation was a difficult one, but it was kept in house with both sides acting like pros.

 

[HappyJoy]

watxh marner will sign and than say all that offer sheet and meeting with other teams was BS and not true. dreger is an idiot

Then he could come out and say that now, right? What's stopping him?

 

[The CyNick]

You are the biggest hypocrite. You literally do that with every post about Dubas.

The guy has been pretty damn good in his time here. Has he been perfect, no. But that's basically impossible.

I'm not going to rehash his moves, but I think he's batting 125 so far and that might be generous. Lou was hitting about 800. And just to spike the ball on us, Lou took a double A level team and made them better than us in one summer.