Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VII | The Saga Continues

[Maple Leaf]

If centers are more important than wingers, is Gauthier more important than Marner?

Yep, that is how it works

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

With Matthews having a NMC his final year I wonder if they just let him walk, unless they're out of the playoffs that year?

Perhaps the best return you would get on him is July 2nd. 2019.

Good thing none of these guys can have a clause early.

We finally have elite players and you can't wait to ship them out of town.

 

[shakes]

If centers are more important than wingers, is Gauthier more important than Marner?

Yes exactly. Geez, could you be more disingenuous. How about you compare apples to apples or, at least, use players in your example with similar skill level.

 

[ACC1224]

Sadly, your right. Maybe it’s social media, but I don’t recall parents being so involved with contract negotiations in the past. Agents were let alone publicly to do their thing. You never heard from Mario’s Wayne’s or Gimour’s dad during RFA negotiations.

How would you have expected to hear anything? What negotiations were heard about in those days? Did they even have RFA then?

 

[diceman934]

You’re welcome to disagree but there’s a reason Matthews was signed first. The only thing that’s been holding Matthews back from being an absolute monster is injuries.

I love Marner but Matthews is a game breaker.

The reason he was signed first is that Dubas values him more. His coach disagrees and so do I. Mathews was injured early this past season and was healthy in the last part of the season when he struggled with inconsistent play. The only year Mathews out produced Marner was in their first year. They were point for point with each other and that included when Marner was playing with the 4th line. Then he got mono and his play tailed off. Since then Marner has our produced him. He has face the best QOC the last season and a half and has produced at a plus 90 point pace.

Mathews is a great goal scorer but lacks the consistency of a game breaker. He can be discouraged with physical play. Will is something that he lacks and it is something Marner has in spades.

 

[Caesium]

Yes exactly. Geez, could you be more disingenuous. How about you compare apples to apples or, at least, use players in your example with similar skill level.

Wait, so now we need to ignore position and factor in how good a player is before saying how important they are? What a novel concept.

 

[diceman934]

Yes exactly. Geez, could you be more disingenuous. How about you compare apples to apples or, at least, use players in your example with similar skill level.

Kane vs Towes.

 

[diceman934]

Wait, so now we need to ignore position and factor in how good a player is before saying how important they are? What a novel concept.

Exactly. It is the player not the position. History bares this out. Orr, Howe etc.

 

[ACC1224]

You’re welcome to disagree but there’s a reason Matthews was signed first. The only thing that’s been holding Matthews back from being an absolute monster is injuries.

I love Marner but Matthews is a game breaker.

While he may be better, I don't think it's a slam dunk he is, he was signed first because he was willing to sign first.

 

[shakes]

Wait, so now we need to ignore position and factor in how good a player is before saying how important they are? What a novel concept.

I never said that. You are either reading something into my post that wasn't there or you are doing it on purpose so you can think you are proving some point.
I said if you are going to compare a winger to a centre, the skill should be similar and if it is, you absolutely sign the centre first.

 

[therealkoho]

Why do you insist on torturing yourself with such improbable and unprecedented beliefs

why do you think he wanted a 5 year deal

 

[dimi78]

You are so transparent. Marner is a must have. He is our best player and it bothers you so much that it is not Nylander that it is laughable.

By position importance to have as a core.
#1 - A #1 goalie
#2 - 2 top flight centers
#3 - A #1 D men

Marner is a luxury not a necessity

 

[diceman934]

How would you have expected to hear anything? What negotiations were heard about in those days? Did they even have RFA then?

I guess people either are to young or ignore famous examples. Lindros

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

why do you think he wanted a 5 year deal

It was explicitly said to keep the cap down so a team can fit around him. It was reported by those who actually know the situation that Matthews would have preferred 8. It's the same reason malkin + crosby signed 5, toews + kane signed 5, Stammer signed 5, etc... There is plenty of precedence that superstar players sign 5 year and aren't just eager to leave the team, they re-up at max term.

 

[Menzinger]

why do you think he wanted a 5 year deal

5-6 year deals are historically the most common contract length for star rfas. On a few guys have ever gotten 7-8 year deals who are close to Matthew's level

 

[Alerion]

Wait, so now we need to ignore position and factor in how good a player is before saying how important they are? What a novel concept.

I'm sure you're smart enough to understand position does matter when comparing players of relatively similar talent level, but not when comparing AHLers to stars.

 

[Captain And Coke]

I am guessing that if it is term that is the sticking point in negotiations, it is because he wants his prime UFA payday?

 

[diceman934]

By position importance to have as a core.
#1 - A #1 goalie
#2 - 2 top flight centers
#3 - A #1 D men

Marner is a luxury not a necessity

Lol. Having Geordie Howe was a luxury then. Never mind he was the best player in the game.

Mike Bossy was a Luxury as was Brett Hull. The nonsense is an epidemic in here. Franchise players are not a Luxury they are a necessity period.

 

[therealkoho]

We finally have elite players and you can't wait to ship them out of town.

nobody want's to ship out anybody(well maybe Nylander)

remember when UFA's didn't ever leave and then JT changed that, it's the reality of the business lets' just say that he has gotten tired of the media scrutiny and someone is willing to pay him xx number of dollars more then the Leafs when he does hit UFA, is he staying?

everyone who has ever played in Toronto(with the exception of a very select few) feels the fans/media wrath sooner or later and maybe after year 3 of the new deal and still no SC(it's a possibility) and the media and fans turn the guns on him, what happens? He's a super laid back dude, a real california sunshine surfer guy, San Jose, LA, Anaheim are real close to the ocean and all share the golden sunlight of that state, less taxes and tons more anonymity.

those are the realities

I don't want it to happen, not in any way shape or form, but it's a possibility

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

nobody want's to ship out anybody(well maybe Nylander)

remember when UFA's didn't ever leave and then JT changed that, it's the reality of the business lets' just say that he has gotten tired of the media scrutiny and someone is willing to pay him xx number of dollars more then the Leafs when he does hit UFA, is he staying?

everyone who has ever played in Toronto(with the exception of a very select few) feels the fans/media wrath sooner or later and maybe after year 3 of the new deal and still no SC(it's a possibility) and the media and fans turn the guns on him, what happens? He's a super laid back dude, a real california sunshine surfer guy, San Jose, LA, Anaheim are real close to the ocean and all share the golden sunlight of that state, less taxes and tons more anonymity.

those are the realities

I don't want it to happen, not in any way shape or form, but it's a possibility

JT was promised the team would have a home when he signed at a discount and by the end of his contract they still didn't. Elite UFA's leaving ASAP may become a reality in the future (I don't have a crystal ball) but there's absolutely no reason or precedence to feel sorry for yourself.

 

[Notsince67]

Let's be honest not a single player on the Leafs is a must have. Thirty other teams in the league, including the Blues don't have any of them, and they seems to be doing just fine.

Wingers are not as important as centers.

That kind of platitude is becoming a mindless mantra to attack a star like Marner. Why dont you try pushing that reasoning with a guy like Ovi? Is he less important on the capitals than Backstrom?

 

[ULF_55]

That kind of platitude is becoming a mindless mantra to attack a star like Marner. Why dont you try pushing that reasoning with a guy like Ovi? Is he less important on the capitals than Backstrom?

Maybe I'll try pushing it on the leading scorer for the Caps in the Cup win ... Kuznetsov the center. I'll just base it on points.

 

[therealkoho]

JT was promised the team would have a home when he signed at a discount and by the end of his contract they still didn't. Elite UFA's leaving ASAP may become a reality in the future (I don't have a crystal ball) but there's absolutely no reason or precedence to feel sorry for yourself.

is 11m X 7 really a discount?

nobody has conclusive proof that the Sharks offered more or was a city that included his wife, his wifes family, his family and the kid's he grew up playing with

up until he signed he had made 44.25m, JT is not a flashy guy doesn't own a stable of lambo's, bought a relatively modest home and is known to be a real family/homebody type of guy especially with his Uncle John, just the money he made in NY will be enough to keep his great grand children living a very comfortable life, the Leafs contract double's that surety.

 

[Suntouchable13]

That kind of platitude is becoming a mindless mantra to attack a star like Marner. Why dont you try pushing that reasoning with a guy like Ovi? Is he less important on the capitals than Backstrom?

Marner is nowhere close to Ovi anyway.

Yes, I'll take dominant centers like Matthews and Sundin from the past over wingers like Marner.

 

[Clark4Ever]

By position importance to have as a core.
#1 - A #1 goalie
#2 - 2 top flight centers
#3 - A #1 D men

Marner is a luxury not a necessity

Marner is not a typical winger though. He drives the play and has the vision and creativity of a centre, which is not surprising given his background in the OHL.

He is a crucial part of our offense. I think his speculated salary demands are still excessive, but Dubas made his bed with the Tavares and Matthews contracts, and now he has to lie in it.