Miscellaneous NHL Talk XXXI - 2019 Offseason

[deadhead]

It's more like "if the team doesn't win, Fletcher and AV will make some personnel changes."
And the most likely changes will be veterans who don't buy into what AV is selling.

 

[Tripod]

It's more like "if the team doesn't win, Fletcher and AV will make some personnel changes."
And the most likely changes will be veterans who don't buy into what AV is selling.

This...is closer to the truth on what could happen. But it won't be just vets.

Like it or not, the coaches will have a gameplan and structure and it's on the players to play that system. But the coaches system also needs to try and take advantage of players strengths, and cover weaknesses.

I just think it's dumb to single out Jake. He is no different than anyone else.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Jake is just the one that for whatever reason the fanbase is less attached to.

I get where he's coming from here.

If things continue to not work out something needs to give and Jake makes sense. It's not completely nonsensical.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

I wonder....what were the top 10 teams by the "fancy stats" vs what were the top 10 teams in reality. Unless they match up, then they are flawed.

It looks like 7 our of the 10 top team had a CF% over 50% (only 11 teams had a plus 50% CF%). Of the 3 top 10 teams that had a CF% below 50% those teams finished 1st, 2nd and 5th in PDO.

Advanced stats aren't some wundertool but it can be useful if you just use it as another tool in the tool box.

I have never understood why some people are against having another source of info at their disposal.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

So stupid. "Unless the team wins, we need to trade one of our top 3 point getters!"

I don’t see anyone putting it that way. But I do see people acknowledging that if the team continues to not win, core players who have been around the longest, & who haven’t shown the ability to buy into multiple coaches’ systems, are likely to go.

 

[dragonoffrost]

This...is closer to the truth on what could happen. But it won't be just vets.

Like it or not, the coaches will have a gameplan and structure and it's on the players to play that system. But the coaches system also needs to try and take advantage of players strengths, and cover weaknesses.

I just think it's dumb to single out Jake. He is no different than anyone else.

I believe that Fletch and AV have now been given the reigns and if they don't like something moves will happen. And if Jake, "who is supposed to be a leader on this team", doesn't buy in his ass will be out.

 

[Tripod]

I believe that Fletch and AV have now been given the reigns and if they don't like something moves will happen. And if Jake, "who is supposed to be a leader on this team", doesn't buy in his ass will be out.

And again...why is it Jake being singled out? It needs to be the same for EVERYONE.

Anyways, I need to become MIA again for awhile. Some of the garbage this offseason has been too much...lol.

 

[Starat327]

And again...why is it Jake being singled out? It needs to be the same for EVERYONE.

Anyways, I need to become MIA again for awhile. Some of the garbage this offseason has been too much...lol.

Taking a vacation from these boards (mostly) has been so relieving.

 

[dragonoffrost]

And again...why is it Jake being singled out? It needs to be the same for EVERYONE.

Anyways, I need to become MIA again for awhile. Some of the garbage this offseason has been too much...lol.

It's Jake because of him/G/Coots ... aka the forward leadership he is the one who you see obviously half assing shifts... I guess you could add JvR but he just got back here so...

I can see TK getting in the dog house but not far enough to get dealt.

 

[Harhis]

It looks like 7 our of the 10 top team had a CF% over 50% (only 11 teams had a plus 50% CF%). Of the 3 top 10 teams that had a CF% below 50% those teams finished 1st, 2nd and 5th in PDO.

Advanced stats aren't some wundertool but it can be useful if you just use it as another tool in the tool box.

I have never understood why some people are against having another source of info at their disposal.

It's much easier to judge team based on advanced stats than it is individual player. There are so many variables with individuals that effect many of those stats and as a single stat many of advanced stats are miss leading.

Lets say Amac played 100% of his TOI with Couts on the ice or 0% of his TOI with Couts. Would that effect his corsi (or other stats). Yes it would. Does playing with Couturier make him better player? Noup.

Or playing against 1st or 4th lines. Or million other things.

Context.

 

[Tripod]

Taking a vacation from these boards (mostly) has been so relieving.

Yeah when I went away for 4 days, I was only on for about an hour at night. I still look around to see if there is any news, but am avoiding the day long talks that prove nothing and go nowhere. And I just got sucked in to what could be one...and now I am removing myself...lol.

I just wish we had actual news we could discuss instead of theoreticals.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

And again...why is it Jake being singled out? It needs to be the same for EVERYONE.

Anyways, I need to become MIA again for awhile. Some of the garbage this offseason has been too much...lol.

IF the Flyers continue to struggle, who is the likeliest candidate to get traded?

Will they stand pat? No, of course not.

Will they trade the captain? No, he has a NMC.

Who’s next likeliest to go? The younger players who cost less, haven’t been part of the failure as long, & are still improving? Or what will be a 31 year old Voracek, having been a core player on the Flyers for 9 disappointing seasons, longer than anyone but Giroux, & making the 2nd most $$$ on the team?

Come on. This isn’t bias. It’s logical reasoning.

If Voracek plays great, can he make it more likely he stays? Absolutely! But under the premise of what happens if the team struggles, he as a longtime key player is likely to be seen as a major reason why it keeps happening.

 

[Striiker]

So stupid. "Unless the team wins, we need to trade one of our top 3 point getters!"

Yup. Not even “if Jake struggles”, just “if the team struggles”. Doesn’t matter why... injuries, goaltending, coaching, defense, or whatever else. Jakes gotta go!

You target and change the problems. You don’t just make changes for the sake of change.

If we're still not good the next year should we trade Couts? By this logic, I guess so.

 

[Striiker]

Taking a vacation from these boards (mostly) has been so relieving.

It’s like Chernobyl.

Short exposure, otherwise you’re f***ed.

 

[Tripod]

Nope...not responding.

On more Misc news, Dano signed in CBus. Carry on.

 

[deadhead]

This...is closer to the truth on what could happen. But it won't be just vets.

Like it or not, the coaches will have a gameplan and structure and it's on the players to play that system. But the coaches system also needs to try and take advantage of players strengths, and cover weaknesses.

I just think it's dumb to single out Jake. He is no different than anyone else.

I think there are different groups of players, with different probabilities of being moved.

Guys like Couts, Giroux, and kids like Patrick, Lindblom, Farabee, Frost, York are untouchables because of talent and intangibles. Provorov will be in this group if he signs. If they don't score, they get paid less but will still have a lot of value in a reduced role.

Guys like Voracek, JVR, TK, Sanheim, Ghost, Myers are vulnerable if they don't buy into AV's desire for two way play. If you're not disciplined defensively, you'd better not have an offseason offensively. Obviously they'll cut the kids more slack than the veterans.

Guys like Laughton, Raffl, Pitlick, Morin, Hagg, Friedman, etc. are expendable.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Nope...not responding.

On more Misc news, Dano signed in CBus. Carry on.

Two way deal though, could very well end up in Cleveland.

 

[Starat327]

It’s like Chernobyl.

Short exposure, otherwise you’re ****ed.

Menu thread has been the only saviour of the off season. Even your "hot dogs are sandwiches" hot takes are better than some in this thread.

 

[BernieParent]

Oh good. I think the mods were starting to get suspicious of my fake ID.

You can use mine.

 

[Lindberg]

6-10 and 185 pounds!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He's going to need to put on a few pounds before training camp!

 

[GapToothedWonder]

It's much easier to judge team based on advanced stats than it is individual player. There are so many variables with individuals that effect many of those stats and as a single stat many of advanced stats are miss leading.

Lets say Amac played 100% of his TOI with Couts on the ice or 0% of his TOI with Couts. Would that effect his corsi (or other stats). Yes it would. Does playing with Couturier make him better player? Noup.

Or playing against 1st or 4th lines. Or million other things.

Context.

True. Which is why they track quality of teammates and competition. It's also why you never use these stats in a vacuum.

Again they are just another tool in the tool box. Use them in proper context and as an aid to evaluation.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

6-10 and 185 pounds!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He's going to need to put on a few pounds before training camp!

Bite your tongue. Nelson Mandela is an all time great hockey player. The hockey world lost a great man that day.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It's much easier to judge team based on advanced stats than it is individual player. There are so many variables with individuals that effect many of those stats and as a single stat many of advanced stats are miss leading.

Lets say Amac played 100% of his TOI with Couts on the ice or 0% of his TOI with Couts. Would that effect his corsi (or other stats). Yes it would. Does playing with Couturier make him better player? Noup.

Or playing against 1st or 4th lines. Or million other things.

Context.

I agree. It makes sense that many of the best teams over the course of a season will have done well overall in shot differential.

But using advanced stats as individual player rating systems eliminates far too much context to be anywhere near as useful.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Bite your tongue. Nelson Mandela is an all time great hockey player. The hockey world lost a great man that day.

Bernier will never live that down.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Bernier will never live that down.

Nor should he.