Miscellaneous NHL Talk XXIX - You Talkin' about PLAYOFFS!?

[Blooger Tron]

I don't understand. I thought he said he wants to win? lol.

 

[Jtown]

its going to be fun watching kessel and phaneuf in that locker room

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Contract is front loaded (he'll be getting paid $8M for next year) & has an out clause after five years. It seems like he's getting some say with the roster too.

Guy Boucher is still meeting with Toronto, unclear if it's for an assistant spot in the NHL or AHL head coaching job.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Wait...is Toronto really gonna roll without a GM while splitting those duties between Shanahan and Babcock?


If they stay this course and don't add a real GM soon they're only going to get worse. This is a Redskins-type situation.

 

[Flyotes]

I hope it always remains a Redskin situation for Joe Toronto.

 

[Fulton44*]

Babcock took the money and ran. I'm not blaming him by any means, but it's quite obvious that's what he did here. Toronto's roster and franchise is an absolute dumpster fire right now. I realize they signed him for 8 years and all but with that contract and the ridiculous expectations that will be placed upon him if Babcock doesn't turn the Leafs around in 3 years the fans and media will be ready to run him out of town. This is the type of move the Flyers would have under Paul Holmgren. I couldn't be more excited about the direction Ron Hextall has taken the Flyers and this is yet another reminder of that. Just a ridiculous ridiculous contract.

Also, Seravalli, LMAO.

 

[PALE PWNR]

Wouldn't you? The other team offered him 20 million to gave him the 20 million then said here have another 30 more lol

 

[Beef Invictus]

I just don't understand the Leafs Fans acting like everything has changed, it's really baffling me. They have no GM. That's just not going to work. Have they forgotten how Burke worked out? With their current setup Babcock and Shanahan are set up to be big flops. If I were a TML fan I'd be deeply concerned about that...there's no point having Babcock if you can't build a team.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I just don't understand the Leafs Fans acting like everything has changed, it's really baffling me. They have no GM. That's just not going to work. Have they forgotten how Burke worked out? With their current setup Babcock and Shanahan are set up to be big flops. If I were a TML fan I'd be deeply concerned about that...there's no point having Babcock if you can't build a team.

I think they're eventually going to name Mark Hunter as the GM. He did a pretty good in London for many years as the GM before coming to Toronto this past season.

 

[Fulton44*]

I just don't understand the Leafs Fans acting like everything has changed, it's really baffling me. They have no GM. That's just not going to work. Have they forgotten how Burke worked out? With their current setup Babcock and Shanahan are set up to be big flops. If I were a TML fan I'd be deeply concerned about that...there's no point having Babcock if you can't build a team.

Leafs fans gonna be Leafs fans

 

[Jtown]

babcock " Ok Shanny , i am gonna bring my guys over and we are gonna win the cup"

Shanahan " OK, so we are getting Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Kronwall"

Babcock " Who needs those guys, we need glendening, Quincey, and most importantly Cleary"

 

[bennysflyers16]

Gary Lawless just said on TSN here that Boucher was in final talks to be HC when Babcock called Shanny

 

[duffy9748]

I don't understand the sentiment that this is going to derail Toronto's plan moving forward. They are still going to trade Kessel/Phaneuf and build from the ground floor. Getting Babcock isn't a negative it just gives them an excellent coach that can start instilling his system early.

As for the contract, does it really matter how much money he got? It doesn't have any affect on the salary cap or anything hockey related. Snider could have given him 80 million if Babcock was who Hextall wanted and none of us should have, nor would have cared.

 

[chupanibre]

Babcock gettin' PAAAIIIID

 

[Beef Invictus]

I don't understand the sentiment that this is going to derail Toronto's plan moving forward. They are still going to trade Kessel/Phaneuf and build from the ground floor. Getting Babcock isn't a negative it just gives them an excellent coach that can start instilling his system early.

As for the contract, does it really matter how much money he got? It doesn't have any affect on the salary cap or anything hockey related. Snider could have given him 80 million if Babcock was who Hextall wanted and none of us should have, nor would have cared.

This might not be true. The bar for coach salaries has been raised dramatically. A driving force behind the salary cap was that the poor teams couldn't afford to compete with the rich teams for talent. If the poor teams can no longer compete with rich teams for coaching talent, it creates a new source of disparity, and if there's anything Bettman is all about it's parity and the stability/improved finances it should theoretically promote.

I don't think they can impose a cap on coaching staffs, scouting staffs, etc. I think the most direct way of solving a situation where poor teams fall behind because they can't afford a decent staff is to raise revenue sharing, which is pretty damned low anyhow. The extra money would give those poor franchises a better chance at getting/keeping staff and could also help end the eternal lockout cycle.

So MLSE might be setting off a fundamental shift in how coaches and perhaps other staff members are paid, and that shift could possibly help push the league to increase revenue sharing...which would have MLSE giving up more money than any other franchise.

It's gonna be really interesting to see how this plays out over the years. Maybe it ends up being nothing...or maybe not.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Babcock's hiring doesn't radically alter dynamic of TOR's search for a new GM. Both external and internal candidates under consideration.

Potential external candidates incl George McPhee, Mike Futa, Jeff Gorton, Julien Brisebois. Internal candidates incl Mark Hunter/Kyle Dubas.

Source: Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie

One of those names isn't like the others.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Please hire him.


Whoever is GM is in a hard place. Shanahan has already filled just about every spot that GMs traditionally fill with his own people, and has generally been acting like the GM for quite a while now. Babcock reportedly has some degree of control. Will the GM they hire actually be able to do his job, or will he be hamstrung?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Gary Lawless just said on TSN here that Boucher was in final talks to be HC when Babcock called Shanny

He was apparently in a meeting with people from the Leafs FO in Toronto when Babcock called & accepted the offer.

 

[flyershockey]

Meh, I've always though Babcock was pretty overrated, mostly from his success with TC. And a trained monkey could coach those teams to wins. He only got one cup in Detroit when you could argue that he had the best collection of talent in the league for nearly half a decade.

 

[Random Forest]

This might not be true. The bar for coach salaries has been raised dramatically. A driving force behind the salary cap was that the poor teams couldn't afford to compete with the rich teams for talent. If the poor teams can no longer compete with rich teams for coaching talent, it creates a new source of disparity, and if there's anything Bettman is all about it's parity and the stability/improved finances it should theoretically promote.

I don't think they can impose a cap on coaching staffs, scouting staffs, etc. I think the most direct way of solving a situation where poor teams fall behind because they can't afford a decent staff is to raise revenue sharing, which is pretty damned low anyhow. The extra money would give those poor franchises a better chance at getting/keeping staff and could also help end the eternal lockout cycle.

So MLSE might be setting off a fundamental shift in how coaches and perhaps other staff members are paid, and that shift could possibly help push the league to increase revenue sharing...which would have MLSE giving up more money than any other franchise.

It's gonna be really interesting to see how this plays out over the years. Maybe it ends up being nothing...or maybe not.

Eh, to be honest, I think it's for the best.

Small market teams are going to have to get creative in their hires. That means fewer trips to the NHL coaching recycle bin. Those are the guys who will get paid big contracts based on their experience (even if their experience was a failure).

Hopefully teams will look to the CHL, USHL, and NCAA more now as a viable option, which is for the best. Maybe we even see our first Euro head coach before long.

MLSE may have shifted prices for experienced NHL coaches upward, but that also make the relative value of unproven candidates (like Hakstol) rise since those prices aren't really affected. If Randy Carlyle, for example, thinks Babcock's contract will allow him to demand a higher price, then his value is going to decrease relative to an "inexperienced" candidate who may not be demanding millions.

I think this is good, tbh. The coaching market was pretty underdeveloped before with relatively constant prices across the board. There needed to be more range, imo.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Eh, to be honest, I think it's for the best.

Small market teams are going to have to get creative in their hires. That means fewer trips to the NHL coaching recycle bin. Those are the guys who will get paid big contracts based on their experience (even if their experience was a failure).

Hopefully teams will look to the CHL, USHL, and NCAA more now as a viable option, which is for the best. Maybe we even see our first Euro head coach before long.

MLSE may have shifted prices for experienced NHL coaches upward, but that also make the relative value of unproven candidates (like Hakstol) rise since those prices aren't really affected. If Randy Carlyle, for example, thinks Babcock's contract will allow him to demand a higher price, then his value is going to decrease relative to an "inexperienced" candidate who may not be demanding millions.

I think this is good, tbh. The coaching market was pretty underdeveloped before with relatively constant prices across the board. There needed to be more range, imo.

Oh I think it's definitely for the better. Not just for the reasons you stated, but also because if does lead to more revenue sharing that will make the league healthier.

 

[renberg]

They are still going to trade Kessel/Phaneuf and build from the ground floor.

Easier said than done. Everyone in the league knows what kind of players these two are; what they can and can't do. With their salaries, the Leafs aren't going to get much in return. Actually I'd rather have the Schenn brothers at their price than Phaneuf and Kessel and I'm not a fan of the Schenns. Good luck with the building from the ground up.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Kessel & JVR don't strike me as Babcock type of players so that should be interesting going forward if they're still there by next season.

 

[Jtown]

Kessel & JVR don't strike me as Babcock type of players so that should be interesting going forward if they're still there by next season.

kessel, jvr, kadri, gardiner.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

kessel, jvr, kadri, gardiner.

Team basically needs to be nuked within these next two years.