Miscellaneous NHL Talk V10.0 - 2018/19 Regular Season

[Oskar Man]

My gut says Hextall ends up in Edmonton.

Either Edmonton or Seattle, IMO

 

[Chinatown88]

I saw someone on the EDM board post a tweet saying that the Oilers are making decisions as a consensus. Although, I'm not sure of the reliability of the person behind the tweet. If that's true, it is freaking hilarious to have that bunch of goofballs discussing things with each other and running the show.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Either Edmonton or Seattle, IMO

No chance for both imo.

One has the Vegas pressure and the other has the best player in the NHL. Neither will be able to withstand Hexy's uber patient approach.

 

[kudymen]

I saw someone on the EDM board post a tweet saying that the Oilers are making decisions as a consensus. Although, I'm not sure of the reliability of the person behind the tweet. If that's true, it is freaking hilarious to have that bunch of goofballs discussing things with each other and running the show.

The thought of Chiarelli, Howson, MacTavish, Lowe and co. talking about trades like Larsson for Hall, "we gonna do it? should we? we gonna do it????", only to see them smile, laugh and pat each other's back afterwards "yeaaa we got him! And it cost just Hall!" - amusing


That's like the Edmonton version of the Hakstol "am I good?" gif

 

[baudib1]

Saying that McDavid is a 110-point scorer and Hughes could be a 100-point scorer is a massive oversimplification of things.

There's a real possibility McDavid hasn't peaked yet, and his peak is going to be terrifying. Instead of Hughes or Frost at the start of their growth curve, you're getting McDavid coming into the height of his. There's a real likelihood that McDavid outscores the two of them combined for at least a couple of years.

The Gretzky trade package is probably comparable to the proposed deal. It couldn't have gone worse for Edmonton, but they got a 19-year-old 50-goal scorer, a high pick in Martin Gelinas, and three first round picks. There's no guarantee Frost will be better than Gelinas, who was scoring around 2 ppg at 17-18.

I think you just have to take McDavid. 95% of GMs will not screw up McDavid's prime years.

 

[deadhead]

Ovechkin and Crosby are 1st ballot HOF players, Kane is not in the same ballpark.

Kane has 898 points, should make it if he gets over 1100, but because he was meh other than scoring, should have to be well above 1100. The rings might get him in but they doesn't make him a HOF lock type player.
Guys over 1100 who didn't make it: Turgeon 1327, Roenick 1216, Nicholls 1209, Brind'amour 1184.

Toews has 721 points, as good as he is as an all around player, he's far from a lock, needs to get over 1000 points.

Keith is another marginal HOF candidate, great 8 year run from 25-32, but neither a great scorer or dominant physical presence.

He had an interesting career start, overage draft pick who turned 19 a month after the draft, spent a year at Michigan State, then left and went to the WHL his second post-draft season, TWO years in the AHL (far all you people whining about Myers and Sanheim), and started in Chicago at 22 years old. Struggled as a rookie, steadily improved and broke out at age 25.
First four seasons, ES scoring: 18, 25, 23, 32.

Kane and Toews aren't in the same class as Crosby or Ovechkin, and Doughty is the best defensemen of the last decade.

Flyers already have Giroux and Couts, Giroux at 30-31 (66 ES, on pace for 65) is as good as Kane ever was at wing.
Hart, Farabee and Frost have top flight potential, as have Sanheim, Myers and Provorov.
Kalynuk, Zamula and O'Brien are dark horses, as are Rubtsov and Ratcliffe.

Chicago's first cup, Sharp (25 goals), Hossa (24), Versteeg (20), Brouwer (22), Laad (17), Byfuglein (17), Campbell and Seabrook on D,
Chicago's second cup, (48 games), Hossa (17), Saad (10), Bickell (9), Stalberg (9), Sharp (6), Seabrook and Leddy on defense, Crawford .926%/Emery .922% in goal
Chicago's third cup, Saad (23), Sharp (16), Richards (12), Versteeg (14), Bickell (14), Shaw (15), Seabrook, Hjalmarsson on defense,
Crawford .924%

The big three were key, but the first time they had great scoring depth, next two times great goaltending, and they always had 2 or 3 good defensemen along with Keith.
Give me two top lines, four solid defensemen and top ten goalies and I'll beat any team with a couple HOF players but little else.

 

[Oskar Man]

No chance for both imo.

One has the Vegas pressure and the other has the best player in the NHL. Neither will be able to withstand Hexy's uber patient approach.

That's a good point

Although, Vegas is an anomaly and Edmonton is pretty f***ed up now and immediate future. At the very least he has shown his strengths are to rid his cap of shit contracts and draft very well. Obviously with Vegas, his entire philosophy would be different as he starting with a clean slate. A team like Edmonton, whether they can afford the patience or not, needs somebody to come in and mop up the sludge that Chiarelli, will ultimately, leave behind.

It'll be interesting to see where he ends up. IMO the market for his services will really ramp up as early as next year as the Flyers youth movement starts to come to fruition.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Either Edmonton or Seattle, IMO

I think McCrimmon is likeliest for Seattle.

 

[baudib1]

Kane and Keith are mortal locks for the HOF. They would both make it if they stopped playing right now. Kane will be a first-ballot inductee and Keith probably will be too. Toews makes the Hall as well although probably not first ballot.

 

[Lotusflower]

Ovechkin and Crosby are 1st ballot HOF players, Kane is not in the same ballpark.

Kane has 898 points, should make it if he gets over 1100, but because he was meh other than scoring, should have to be well above 1100. The rings might get him in but they doesn't make him a HOF lock type player.
Guys over 1100 who didn't make it: Turgeon 1327, Roenick 1216, Nicholls 1209, Brind'amour 1184.

Toews has 721 points, as good as he is as an all around player, he's far from a lock, needs to get over 1000 points.

Keith is another marginal HOF candidate, great 8 year run from 25-32, but neither a great scorer or dominant physical presence.

He had an interesting career start, overage draft pick who turned 19 a month after the draft, spent a year at Michigan State, then left and went to the WHL his second post-draft season, TWO years in the AHL (far all you people whining about Myers and Sanheim), and started in Chicago at 22 years old. Struggled as a rookie, steadily improved and broke out at age 25.
First four seasons, ES scoring: 18, 25, 23, 32.

Kane and Toews aren't in the same class as Crosby or Ovechkin, and Doughty is the best defensemen of the last decade.

Flyers already have Giroux and Couts, Giroux at 30-31 (66 ES, on pace for 65) is as good as Kane ever was at wing.
Hart, Farabee and Frost have top flight potential, as have Sanheim, Myers and Provorov.
Kalynuk, Zamula and O'Brien are dark horses, as are Rubtsov and Ratcliffe.

Chicago's first cup, Sharp (25 goals), Hossa (24), Versteeg (20), Brouwer (22), Laad (17), Byfuglein (17), Campbell and Seabrook on D,
Chicago's second cup, (48 games), Hossa (17), Saad (10), Bickell (9), Stalberg (9), Sharp (6), Seabrook and Leddy on defense, Crawford .926%/Emery .922% in goal
Chicago's third cup, Saad (23), Sharp (16), Richards (12), Versteeg (14), Bickell (14), Shaw (15), Seabrook, Hjalmarsson on defense,
Crawford .924%

The big three were key, but the first time they had great scoring depth, next two times great goaltending, and they always had 2 or 3 good defensemen along with Keith.
Give me two top lines, four solid defensemen and top ten goalies and I'll beat any team with a couple HOF players but little else.

The clapback wouldve been quicker if you actually quoted me.
I never said all you need is HOF's but youre not winning a Cup without them.

Get your spun narratives straight theyre starting to bleed together.
Kane, Toews, Keith are "marginal" HOF'ers. OK.
Giroux is better at wing than Kane ever was. OK.
This coming from the guy who told me Giroux was on the decline for 3 straight years last year only to shut his mouth when Giroux bounced back as he always does.

How many of those ES points for Giroux were scored in the regular season against non-competitive teams?
How many were scored when the Flyers were out of serious contention for even a playoff spot (like all his points this year...)

How many of Kane's points were scored in the spring in playoff games against contenders?

Could Giroux have done better than Kane if the situations were switched? We'll never know.
What we do know is the Hawks core came up big in those moments.
The argument for the Flyers core is based on fantasy. The argument for the Hawks is based on things that actually happened.

This contrarian d******* literally tried to compare Sanheim/Provorov/Myers to Duncan Keith. Good Lord.
If those 3 combine for the career Keith has had we'll be lucky.
If one of them reaches Keith's level (I'll throw Ghost in there as well) then that guy has his jersey in the rafters, a statue out front the WFC, and an inordinate amount of kids in the tristate will be named Ivan/Phillippe/Travis/or Shayne.

 

[wankstifier]

Kane and Keith are mortal locks for the HOF. They would both make it if they stopped playing right now. Kane will be a first-ballot inductee and Keith probably will be too. Toews makes the Hall as well although probably not first ballot.

Toews is the only undeserving candidate

 

[hatcher]

The clapback wouldve been quicker if you actually quoted me.
I never said all you need is HOF's but youre not winning a Cup without them.

Get your spun narratives straight theyre starting to bleed together.
Kane, Toews, Keith are "marginal" HOF'ers. OK.
Giroux is better at wing than Kane ever was. OK.
This coming from the guy who told me Giroux was on the decline for 3 straight years last year only to shut his mouth when Giroux bounced back as he always does.

How many of those ES points for Giroux were scored in the regular season against non-competitive teams?
How many were scored when the Flyers were out of serious contention for even a playoff spot (like all his points this year...)

How many of Kane's points were scored in the spring in playoff games against contenders?

Could Giroux have done better than Kane if the situations were switched? We'll never know.
What we do know is the Hawks core came up big in those moments.
The argument for the Flyers core is based on fantasy. The argument for the Hawks is based on things that actually happened.

This contrarian d******* literally tried to compare Sanheim/Provorov/Myers to Duncan Keith. Good Lord.
If those 3 combine for the career Keith has had we'll be lucky.
If one of them reaches Keith's level (I'll throw Ghost in there as well) then that guy has his jersey in the rafters, a statue out front the WFC, and an inordinate amount of kids in the tristate will be named Ivan/Phillippe/Travis/or Shayne.

The truth has been spoken here to a tee.

 

[baudib1]

Toews strikes me as someone who will play forever and accumulate 1,200 points, making the whole thing moot.

 

[Curufinwe]

How many were scored when the Flyers were out of serious contention for even a playoff spot (like all his points this year...)

So all of Kane's points this year must not count since Chicago are the worst team in the league.

 

[hatcher]

Chicago boys can quit as the great work is already done. They still play as great game and might make the playoffs with a weak team. Good leaders.

 

[Tripod]

The clapback wouldve been quicker if you actually quoted me.
I never said all you need is HOF's but youre not winning a Cup without them.

Get your spun narratives straight theyre starting to bleed together.
Kane, Toews, Keith are "marginal" HOF'ers. OK.
Giroux is better at wing than Kane ever was. OK.
This coming from the guy who told me Giroux was on the decline for 3 straight years last year only to shut his mouth when Giroux bounced back as he always does.

How many of those ES points for Giroux were scored in the regular season against non-competitive teams?
How many were scored when the Flyers were out of serious contention for even a playoff spot (like all his points this year...)

How many of Kane's points were scored in the spring in playoff games against contenders?

Could Giroux have done better than Kane if the situations were switched? We'll never know.
What we do know is the Hawks core came up big in those moments.
The argument for the Flyers core is based on fantasy. The argument for the Hawks is based on things that actually happened.

This contrarian d******* literally tried to compare Sanheim/Provorov/Myers to Duncan Keith. Good Lord.
If those 3 combine for the career Keith has had we'll be lucky.
If one of them reaches Keith's level (I'll throw Ghost in there as well) then that guy has his jersey in the rafters, a statue out front the WFC, and an inordinate amount of kids in the tristate will be named Ivan/Phillippe/Travis/or Shayne.

Dead should have lost all cred when he said:

If Kane and Keith and Toews are franchise players, then 20 players each season are in that class.
And the Flyers have a half dozen prospects with that kind of potential.


At this point, i almost wish a Mod would wipe away the last few pages for fear of other teams fans seeing some of this rubbish.

 

[baudib1]

The clapback wouldve been quicker if you actually quoted me.
I never said all you need is HOF's but youre not winning a Cup without them.

Get your spun narratives straight theyre starting to bleed together.
Kane, Toews, Keith are "marginal" HOF'ers. OK.
Giroux is better at wing than Kane ever was. OK.
This coming from the guy who told me Giroux was on the decline for 3 straight years last year only to shut his mouth when Giroux bounced back as he always does.

How many of those ES points for Giroux were scored in the regular season against non-competitive teams?
How many were scored when the Flyers were out of serious contention for even a playoff spot (like all his points this year...)

How many of Kane's points were scored in the spring in playoff games against contenders?

Could Giroux have done better than Kane if the situations were switched? We'll never know.
What we do know is the Hawks core came up big in those moments.
The argument for the Flyers core is based on fantasy. The argument for the Hawks is based on things that actually happened.

This contrarian d******* literally tried to compare Sanheim/Provorov/Myers to Duncan Keith. Good Lord.
If those 3 combine for the career Keith has had we'll be lucky.
If one of them reaches Keith's level (I'll throw Ghost in there as well) then that guy has his jersey in the rafters, a statue out front the WFC, and an inordinate amount of kids in the tristate will be named Ivan/Phillippe/Travis/or Shayne.

The irony is that deadhead is just about the only guy here who goes around quoting Flyers' playoff stats as if their 12 games in 6 years is a real sample size.

Kane and Keith are legit HOFers without any playoff credit but of course they were great in the postseason. Basically everyone who ever won a Norris is/will be a HOFer, and Keith has two. Kane is a rare winger who won a Hart in one of the most dominant seasons recorded post-lockout.

The best players on the best teams is your basic definition of a Hall of Famer, in every sport.

Hossa probably makes it; most dynasties have a player worse than Hossa in the HOF (Clark Gillies, Glenn Anderson, Joe Mullen). I wouldn't be surprised if Crawford makes it too.

 

[Lotusflower]

So all of Kane's points this year must not count since Chicago are the worst team in the league.

Learn to read. @deadhead said Giroux has been better at wing than Kane ever was. He cited ES points in the last couple seasons.

Kane at his best was winning Cups playing in high level playoff games against elite competition.
Giroux on wing has been...less successful. Not his fault but facts are facts.

Now, take off the orange glasses for second.
What do we value more:
Production accrued over time against diverse (in terms of level of talent) but often unmeaningful competition OR
Production accrued over a substantial peak against the best of the best in games that truly defined an era.

Are you and @deadhead really arguing that Giroux on wing the last couple years is comparable to Kane on wing circa 2010-2015?

 

[baudib1]

I'd give Frost maybe a 5% shot at making the HOF at this point in time and all of the other Flyers' prospects probably less than 5% combined.

Carter Hart, sure. Giroux is in. Provorov/Sanheim each have a shot, and Ghost probably has a really small chance too.

 

[Lotusflower]

Dead should have lost all cred when he said:

If Kane and Keith and Toews are franchise players, then 20 players each season are in that class.
And the Flyers have a half dozen prospects with that kind of potential.


At this point, i almost wish a Mod would wipe away the last few pages for fear of other teams fans seeing some of this rubbish.

FACTS. I love our prospects and young players and think the world of them but Im also not gonna traffic in hyperbole.

Is Provorov Keith? Maybe but not likely. Is Patrick Tavares/Getzlaf like half the board was claiming when he was drafted? Maybe but not likely.

Is the Flyers prospect pool as of Jan 2019, that wellspring from which all hottakes and Flyer optimism leaps forth, really nurturing no less than a half-dozen HOF'ers according to @deadhead?

Well Damn. Must've made a huge mistake letting go of Hextall and his head of scouting then.

 

[Sombastate]

The clapback wouldve been quicker if you actually quoted me.
I never said all you need is HOF's but youre not winning a Cup without them.

Get your spun narratives straight theyre starting to bleed together.
Kane, Toews, Keith are "marginal" HOF'ers. OK.
Giroux is better at wing than Kane ever was. OK.
This coming from the guy who told me Giroux was on the decline for 3 straight years last year only to shut his mouth when Giroux bounced back as he always does.

How many of those ES points for Giroux were scored in the regular season against non-competitive teams?
How many were scored when the Flyers were out of serious contention for even a playoff spot (like all his points this year...)

How many of Kane's points were scored in the spring in playoff games against contenders?

Could Giroux have done better than Kane if the situations were switched? We'll never know.
What we do know is the Hawks core came up big in those moments.
The argument for the Flyers core is based on fantasy. The argument for the Hawks is based on things that actually happened.

This contrarian d******* literally tried to compare Sanheim/Provorov/Myers to Duncan Keith. Good Lord.
If those 3 combine for the career Keith has had we'll be lucky.
If one of them reaches Keith's level (I'll throw Ghost in there as well) then that guy has his jersey in the rafters, a statue out front the WFC, and an inordinate amount of kids in the tristate will be named Ivan/Phillippe/Travis/or Shayne.

I'm gonna print this out, go to striker's bathroom and rub one out.

atta boy.

Also, if you name your child Phillippe, i'm going back in time and undoing all of what i said before.

 

[Chinatown88]

I'm gonna print this out, go to striker's bathroom and rub one out.

atta boy.

Also, if you name your child Phillippe, i'm going back in time and i'm doing all of what i said before.

 

[freakydallas13]

Those half dozen hall of famers can't even beat Lhetorgo, Amac, or Weise for roster spots. What a joke.

 

[baudib1]

The Flyers have drafted one Hall of Famer since taking Bill Barber in 1972 - Peter Forsberg.

Two if you count Giroux.

 

[Tripod]

Kapanen roasting Pickard