Miscellaneous NHL Discussion LX: Covid Cup II nears its finale

[Beef Invictus]

Another common thing cited against Fletcher was his refusal to move a defender (Strength of team) for an impact forward

Wild had the D depth to make an impact trade utilizing one of the defenders on NHL roster but Fletcher was unwilling to make that move. An unwillingness to pull trigger on a bigt trade is not a trait you want your GM to have

Maybe because the one time he tried that it was an unmitigated disaster, one of the worst moves of this century.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Also it wasn't the goalies to blame for Wild losing to Hawks

It was fact the Wild could never solve Corey Crawford

From 2013-15 in the playoffs vs Wild this is what Crawford did

12-2
.939 SV Pct
2 Shutouts

In 2015 the Wild scored just 7 goals in the 4 game sweep and that was against weakest Hawks team

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Maybe because the one time he tried that it was an unmitigated disaster, one of the worst moves of this century.

He traded Leddy for a struggling defender in Barker

Not exactly pulling trade on a big time move for forward utilizing one of his young NHL defenders as trade chip

Fletcher overreacted to Leddy broken jaw and fact it took him while to adjust to playing after it (As an 18 yr old freshman) and deemed Leddy a failing prospect because he thought highly of program Leddy was in so it was "Leddy" that was problem to him

Also the fact he threw in a top 4 defender on expiring contract in Kim Johnsson who had trade value at deadline all himself further made trade terrible at time

In Johnsson case unfortunately a concussion ended his NHL career after just briefly playing for Hawks

 

[deadhead]

Fletcher made two bad trades early in his Wild tenure, and points to them why he's reluctant to trade young players, which is good, most young player for veteran or 1st rd pick for veteran deals don't work out. Since you don't know which year will be your year, it's futile to overpay for the "last brick" because you need to maintain the window open as long as possible to increase the odds the Hockey Gods will smile upon you.

His only other bad Wild moves was one TDL trade and the ED, where he was under pressure to win now by his owner (hard to take the long view when you're facing a short tenure).

I don't see him moving top young assets for veterans this offseason, I don't think his job is in jeopardy (now AV, he's on his "prove it" season).
He's drafted well, and hasn't made that major mistake to sour Scott on him, so the GM will stay but the HC will go.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I was trying to figure out a possible 2022 Team USA Olympic Roster and the defense looks stacked, especially on the right side


RD
Fox
McAvoy (he may put them over the weight limit)
Pesce
Carlson
Petry

LD
Slavin
Q. Hughes
Werenski

And there are others worth mentioning too.

They’re probably going to take Jones by default. Fortunately Fox emerged to the point that even the dinosaurs can’t ignore him now.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He traded Leddy for a struggling defender in Barker

Not exactly pulling trade on a big time move for forward utilizing one of his young NHL defenders as trade chip

Fletcher overreacted to Leddy broken jaw and fact it took him while to adjust to playing after it (As an 18 yr old freshman) and deemed Leddy a failing prospect because he thought highly of program Leddy was in so it was "Leddy" that was problem to him

Also the fact he threw in a top 4 defender on expiring contract in Kim Johnsson who had trade value at deadline all himself further made trade terrible at time

In Johnsson case unfortunately a concussion ended his NHL career after just briefly playing for Hawks

I'm talking about a way worse move.

Burns.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Oh yeah forgot about that one though at time Wild were still doing that dumb moving Burns from D to forward and forward to D nonsense

 

[Beef Invictus]

Fletcher made two bad trades early in his Wild tenure, and points to them why he's reluctant to trade young players, which is good, most young player for veteran or 1st rd pick for veteran deals don't work out. Since you don't know which year will be your year, it's futile to overpay for the "last brick" because you need to maintain the window open as long as possible to increase the odds the Hockey Gods will smile upon you.

His only other bad Wild moves was one TDL trade and the ED, where he was under pressure to win now by his owner (hard to take the long view when you're facing a short tenure).

I don't see him moving top young assets for veterans this offseason, I don't think his job is in jeopardy (now AV, he's on his "prove it" season).
He's drafted well, and hasn't made that major mistake to sour Scott on him, so the GM will stay but the HC will go.

You're also forgetting the bad Hanzal trade late in his tenure. He's made a lot of bad moves.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

You're also forgetting the bad Hanzal trade late in his tenure. He's made a lot of bad moves.

He also traded for Matt Moulson who was already on decline and was awful in playoffs for Wild

 

[deadhead]

You're also forgetting the bad Hanzal trade late in his tenure. He's made a lot of bad moves.

No, that was the TDL trade under "win now" pressure.
He did a much better job dealing with Scott's mandate, 2nd and 3rd for Braun and Gudas for Niskanen - that was low cost for getting Scott to let up.
Hopefully he'll take a similar approach this offseason, and not try to hit a HR.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No, that was the TDL trade under "win now" pressure.
He did a much better job dealing with Scott's mandate, 2nd and 3rd for Braun and Gudas for Niskanen - that was low cost for getting Scott to let up.
Hopefully he'll take a similar approach this offseason, and not try to hit a HR.

The conditions don't make the move better.

If he's not under pressure to get this roster figured out and winning here either then it's further testament to the loser culture oozing from the highest levels of this country club

 

[FlyerNutter]

All GMs-are fired.

Fletcher is up for grabs.

How many top clubs line up to hire him?

He’s always been a zero, and continues to be one. As if the Minnesota Wild under his tenure are something to aspire to. As mediocre of a club as one could dream of.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

All GM's are under pressure at TDL so that is poor defense of him "He was under pressure to win"

The playoff team GM's are under pressure with regard to getting right pieces to contend while loser teams GM's are under pressure to maximize value of assets they are moving

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Wasn't Carolina for quite some time trying to spend very little real dollars until the new owner?

Sort of?

Dundon definitely has that billionaire mentality where you don’t make money by spending money unnecessarily. When he bought the team, he got rid of several ‘old boys club’ positions iirc. Director of Defensemen Development. Stuff like that.

He didn’t want to pay one guy too much money to be the gm when a smart gm is going to lean on his assistants anyway, so he made sure the agms were strong. I want to say he promoted Tulsky from director of analytics to assistant gm.

He wants all the money spent on the team to improve the on ice product and in game experience. Hence why he didn’t pony up to pay Forslund, but laughed off Montreal’s Aho offer sheet despite the ridiculous bonuses they worked into it

 

[FlyerNutter]

God damnit I’ve tried to stay neutral.

That excuse of running into a top team and somehow it being an excuse for losing…

Minnesota ran into Chicago yes. How many years did boy wonder have to ensure they have a chance at beating them? He failed. Every time. Minnesota, and you can trust my word on this or not - was a club that everyone wanted in round one. Pretending to be something more than early round fodder season after season.

It’s all a moot point anyway. Whenever Fletcher is fired here, after wasting our time for years - that tattoo of perpetual loser will be even more engraved into his silver spoon ass.

Can’t beat those top clubs? Maybe look at how they gathered their top core talent.

This is also the NHL general thread not the roster one. Every time I forget my god.

 

[Beef Invictus]

God damnit I’ve tried to stay neutral.

That excuse of running into a top team and somehow it being an excuse for losing…

Minnesota ran into Chicago yes. How many years did boy wonder have to ensure they have a chance at beating them? He failed. Every time. Minnesota, and you can trust my word on this or not - was a club that everyone wanted in round one. Pretending to be something more than early round fodder season after season.

It’s all a moot point anyway. Whenever Fletcher is fired here, after wasting our time for years - that tattoo of perpetual loser will be even more engraved into his silver spoon ass.

Can’t beat those top clubs? Maybe look at how they gathered their top core talent.

This is also the NHL general thread not the roster one. Every time I forget my god.

It's not like Chicago won every Cup those years, either. Other teams beat them.

 

[Striiker]

The Hurricanes also played a team with a $100M roster in a $81.5M capped league...

Who are also the defending Cup champs.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Sort of?

Dundon definitely has that billionaire mentality where you don’t make money by spending money unnecessarily. When he bought the team, he got rid of several ‘old boys club’ positions iirc. Director of Defensemen Development. Stuff like that.

He didn’t want to pay one guy too much money to be the gm when a smart gm is going to lean on his assistants anyway, so he made sure the agms were strong. I want to say he promoted Tulsky from director of analytics to assistant gm.

He wants all the money spent on the team to improve the on ice product and in game experience. Hence why he didn’t pony up to pay Forslund, but laughed off Montreal’s Aho offer sheet despite the ridiculous bonuses they worked into it

I checked the Tulsky thing. He was promoted to Vice President of Hockey Management and Strategy the offseason after Dundon bought the team and AGM this past November.

He’s also got a doctorate in chemistry from Berkeley. This is sort of a backup career for him. I wish me was that smart

 

[FlyerNutter]

I checked the Tulsky thing. He was promoted to Vice President of Hockey Management and Strategy the offseason after Dundon bought the team and AMG this past November.

He’s also got a doctorate in chemistry from Berkeley. This is sort of a backup career for him. I wish was that smart

Exhibit A

 

[Beef Invictus]

Sort of?

Dundon definitely has that billionaire mentality where you don’t make money by spending money unnecessarily. When he bought the team, he got rid of several ‘old boys club’ positions iirc. Director of Defensemen Development. Stuff like that.

He didn’t want to pay one guy too much money to be the gm when a smart gm is going to lean on his assistants anyway, so he made sure the agms were strong. I want to say he promoted Tulsky from director of analytics to assistant gm.

He wants all the money spent on the team to improve the on ice product and in game experience. Hence why he didn’t pony up to pay Forslund, but laughed off Montreal’s Aho offer sheet despite the ridiculous bonuses they worked into it

Meanwhile our AGMs are Flahr and Hanrahan. Flahr is a meek loser who's followed Fletcher around for 25 years, Hanrahan is a member of the Clarke club and his main skill is being useless enough that he can't be blamed for anything.

They are advised by such stellar minds as Clarke, Homer, and Barber. Oh boy.

I wonder why nothing ever changes?

 

[deadhead]

All GM's are under pressure at TDL so that is poor defense of him "He was under pressure to win"

The playoff team GM's with regard to getting right pieces to contend while loser teams GM's are under pressure to maximize value of assets they are moving

If you look at most TDL trades, they're failures b/c rentals who go to new teams often fail to mesh quickly enough to make a difference, then they're gone with the assets that were traded for them. Which is why the best TDL moves are usually low cost patches which can be written off if they don't work but make you look like a genius when they do.

Caps: Mantha for Vrana, 2021 1st, 2022 2nd, Ponik
Car: Bennett & 6th for 2021 2nd, Heineman
VGK: Janmark, for 2021 2nd, 2022 3rd
Bruins: Hall for 2021 2nd, Bjork
Tor: Foligno for 2021 1st, 2022 4th
TB: Savard for 2021st, 2022 3rd, 2021 4th
NYI: Palmieri & Zajac for 2021 1st, 2022 4th

All the bigger trades included retained salary, upping the ante.
The trades involving 3rd rd picks or so probably had a big of an impact:
Pen: Carter for 3rd, 4th
Mon: Staal for 3rd and 5th
Col: Nemeth for 4th
Tor: Noeseon for 4th
Boston: Reilly for 3rd
Car: Montour for 3rd

 

[Curufinwe]

The time proven approach to lines is to have a top scoring one; a secondary scoring one; an energy line and a checking one. The organization's job is to find the players that fill the requisite roles on these lines. Not with this coaching staff. AV looks to try to roll four lines of equal ability.

If that were true Giroux, Couturier, and Voracek wouldn't average 3+ minutes more at ES than bottom of the lineup guys from 2021 like Raffl, Lindblom, Patrick and NAK.

Same story last season when they were not outscored.

 

[Rebels57]

They’re probably going to take Jones by default. Fortunately Fox emerged to the point that even the dinosaurs can’t ignore him now.

Yeah he was one of the others I was going to mention but I didn't want to deal with the fall-out lol

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Exhibit A

Ya caught me, fixed it

 

[Beef Invictus]

If that were true Giroux, Couturier, and Voracek wouldn't average 3+ minutes more at ES than bottom of the lineup guys from 2021 like Raffl, Lindblom, Patrick and NAK.

Same story last season when they were not outscored.

The gap between first and fourth line at ES is usually more like 5-10 minutes, not 3.