Miscellaneous NHL Discussion LX: Covid Cup II nears its finale

[Tripod]

That happens to Fletcher in Minnesota & the narrative is he’s defined by mediocrity.

Well, let's look. Hired May 2009....gone April 2018

2010- missed playoffs
2011-missed playoffs
2012-missed playoffs
2013-2015-lost to Chicago each year(did beat Avs and StL in seperate years)
2016-lost to Dallas
2017-lost to Blues
2018-lost to Jets

First 3 years...obvious
next 3 years....2 times they beat 2 teams much better than them in reg season, then lost to Chicago
Dallas was the top team in East
Blues were worse that Wild in reg season
Jets were 2nd best team in East

So they played 8 different series', and were the underdog in 7 of them...and won 2 of them. Very close to getting the "expected" result.

As for the mediocrity you mention, it could be because in his 9 years, his reg season teams that DID make the playoffs were only good enough for:

8th seed
7th seed
7th seed
8th seed
2nd seed.....but lost 1st rd
4th seed.....but lost 1st rd

S0 in 9 years, 7 of them iced a team that was 7thor 8th seed...or missed the playoffs. So when you are competing agianst 15 yeams....and you are 7/8 4 times...and miss the playoffs 3.....yeah....it's mediocre. And I would assume that's where the comments come from.

Funny that he started getting better reg season success(2nd and 4th seed in his last 2 years), and was then let go.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Fletcher lost to unremarkable teams too. And none of his Wild teams were as good as Carolia lately, nor did they touch the ECF.

Fletcher is a mediocrity because that's all his teams were. Still the case, too.

Oh, please. "None of his Wild teams were as good as Carolina lately"? Oh really? Carolina hasn't had a 100 point season since 05/06, though I'll grant you they would have had 100 points this season if it were 82 games. So it would have been their only 100 point season in 15 years. And the Hurricanes missed the playoffs for 9 straight seasons before a conference final loss, first round loss, and second round loss.

Fletcher had 3 100+ point seasons during his 9 year tenure, and when he left they had made the playoffs six straight seasons, while playing in the toughest division in the NHL.

The anti-Fletcher crowd sure didn't give him any leeway for losing to Chicago in the playoffs three straight seasons, who was the best team in hockey, winning 2 Cups and losing in the WCF in 7 games to the Cup winner in the other season. So it's a hell of a double standard for any of those same people to cut Carolina slack for losing to good teams.

 

[GKJ]

The year they lost to the Blues, Jake Allen beat them like by himself. They were close to the top of the league a lot of the year.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Fletcher's Minnesota teams were built one way, play low event hockey and hope the shooting luck was on his side. In a decade, not one of his teams finished in the top half of the league in offensive metrics and were often towards the bottom. And it's not like they were some defensive juggernaut either. They never finished better than 15th in shot share. That was their best in 10 years! FIFTHTEENTH.

And it sounds like that is the kind of hockey we are getting next year and however much longer he is here. He's as mediocre as it gets and that is putting it mildly.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Maybe it’s just being naive, but I maintain trying out guys like Kase for example.

Would allow this club to find more quality players instead of just deciding to bring in try hard Neanderthals.

Colton and Gourde make it in the Flyers development system?

The what? If they have one I've never heard of it.

 

[wankstifier]

Hard to contend without the all important lefty-righty top pair. Suter never stood a chance

 

[TCTC]

Well, let's look. Hired May 2009....gone April 2018

2010- missed playoffs
2011-missed playoffs
2012-missed playoffs
2013-2015-lost to Chicago each year(did beat Avs and StL in seperate years)
2016-lost to Dallas
2017-lost to Blues
2018-lost to Jets

First 3 years...obvious
next 3 years....2 times they beat 2 teams much better than them in reg season, then lost to Chicago
Dallas was the top team in East
Blues were worse that Wild in reg season
Jets were 2nd best team in East

So they played 8 different series', and were the underdog in 7 of them...and won 2 of them. Very close to getting the "expected" result.

As for the mediocrity you mention, it could be because in his 9 years, his reg season teams that DID make the playoffs were only good enough for:

8th seed
7th seed
7th seed
8th seed
2nd seed.....but lost 1st rd
4th seed.....but lost 1st rd

S0 in 9 years, 7 of them iced a team that was 7thor 8th seed...or missed the playoffs. So when you are competing agianst 15 yeams....and you are 7/8 4 times...and miss the playoffs 3.....yeah....it's mediocre. And I would assume that's where the comments come from.

Funny that he started getting better reg season success(2nd and 4th seed in his last 2 years), and was then let go.

Let's not pretend that the Hurricanes record over the last decade looks any better. It took them 10 years to even make the playoffs.
They made it to the Conference Final once and got swept. Is that the difference between great and mediocre?

 

[GapToothedWonder]

So CAR lost again?

I keep getting told my HF that CAR is going to take the "next step".....pretty sure I've been hearing that for close to 10 years now

I know right! Just like Tampa Bay. Everybody says they are going to take the next step but they are clearly a regular season team.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Oh, please. "None of his Wild teams were as good as Carolina lately"? Oh really? Carolina hasn't had a 100 point season since 05/06, though I'll grant you they would have had 100 points this season if it were 82 games. So it would have been their only 100 point season in 15 years. And the Hurricanes missed the playoffs for 9 straight seasons before a conference final loss, first round loss, and second round loss.

Fletcher had 3 100+ point seasons during his 9 year tenure, and when he left they had made the playoffs six straight seasons, while playing in the toughest division in the NHL.

The anti-Fletcher crowd sure didn't give him any leeway for losing to Chicago in the playoffs three straight seasons, who was the best team in hockey, winning 2 Cups and losing in the WCF in 7 games to the Cup winner in the other season. So it's a hell of a double standard for any of those same people to cut Carolina slack for losing to good teams.

Do you think Fletcher will build a good team here?

 

[Prongo]

All I know is this is a stupid argument and I would much rather be the Hurricanes organization rather than the Flyers right now.

Not only are their best players extremely young and they still have highly skilled prospects on the way. They ran into a team that could possibly win the Stanley cup this year. Lots of luck has to be involved in winning the Cup

 

[Beef Invictus]

All I know is this is a stupid argument and I would much rather be the Hurricanes organization rather than the Flyers right now.

Not only are their best players extremely young and they still have highly skilled prospects on the way. They ran into a team that could possibly win the Stanley cup this year. Lots of luck has to be involved in winning the Cup

The smugfacing over Carolina is from people who like to pretend the Flyers are well managed.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

The Hurricanes also played a team with a $100M roster in a $81.5M capped league...

 

[TB87]

TBL is a PHENOMENAL team. Not gonna fault CAR for not beating them. CAR is a very good team and their present (& future) is brighter than the Flyers. Which makes me sad/angry/envious.

 

[Prongo]

What a savy GM would go and get Rob the Bod if he actually doesn’t reup with carolina. Regardless of our coaching staff. He’s a better coach than probably 90% of the coaches in the league. Fletcher is too much of a p***y to make that move though.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Fletcher's Minnesota teams were built one way, play low event hockey and hope the shooting luck was on his side. In a decade, not one of his teams finished in the top half of the league in offensive metrics and were often towards the bottom. And it's not like they were some defensive juggernaut either. They never finished better than 15th in shot share. That was their best in 10 years! FIFTHTEENTH.

And it sounds like that is the kind of hockey we are getting next year and however much longer he is here. He's as mediocre as it gets and that is putting it mildly.

Yeah??? Well, how about the way he kept losing in the playoffs, too?

As if that's some glorious excuse.

 

[Rebels57]

Let's not pretend that the Hurricanes record over the last decade looks any better. It took them 10 years to even make the playoffs.
They made it to the Conference Final once and got swept. Is that the difference between great and mediocre?

Carolina's 10 year stretch of missing the Playoffs has no bearing on 2021 Carolina. They WERE mediocre. Now they are not. They'll be in the mix for quite a few years.

 

[deadhead]

Playoff hockey being a different animal than regular season hockey is a problem in itself.

Well, it is. The refs allow more contact, the checking is tighter.

Best goalies in playoffs (GAA - xGA/60):
Hellebuyck -0.84
Vasilevskiy -0.62
Price -0.50
Sorokin -0.35
Fleury -0.21
Talbot -0.21
Campbell -0.16
Rask -0.13
Varlamov +0.01
Grubauer +0.03
Nedeljkovic +0.03
Saros +0.18
Samsonov +0.36
M Smith +0.38
Binnington +0.76
Mrazek +0.85
Jarry +1.09
Drieger +1.69
Bob +3.03

Fleury and Grubauer held back VGK and Colorado last season.
On the other hand, imagine how bad Winnipeg had to be to overcome Hellebuyck's great play!

Last year's top goalies:
Price -0.73
Korpisalo -0.54
Hart -0.44
Vasilevskiy -0.36
Varlamov -0.19
Lehner -0.10
Markstrom -0.04
Khudobin -0.02
Grubauer +0.20
Fleury +0.37

If Q is so smart, why didn't he start Knight, instead of waiting until it was too late?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Well, it is. The refs allow more contact, the checking is tighter.

And that's a problem... The game shouldn't change because it's "the playoffs."

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The smugfacing over Carolina is from people who like to pretend the Flyers are well managed.

Nope. It's pointing out a clear double-standard. Losing to good teams is an excuse for those who have touted Carolina, yet it's allegedly the sign of mediocrity for Fletcher.

And I don't think losing to Tampa is a huge knock against Carolina just as I don't think losing to Chicago is a knock against Minnesota. I'm laughing at the cognitive dissonance by those with a pro-Carolina bias and an anti-Fletcher bias.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Carolina's 10 year stretch of missing the Playoffs has no bearing on 2021 Carolina. They WERE mediocre. Now they are not. They'll be in the mix for quite a few years.

I do believe they needed an organizational overhaul to make that happen.

Must be nice.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Nope. It's pointing out a clear double-standard. Losing to good teams is an excuse for those who have touted Carolina, yet it's allegedly the sign of mediocrity for Fletcher.

And I don't think losing to Tampa is a huge knock against Carolina just as I don't think losing to Chicago is a knock against Minnesota. I'm laughing at the cognitive dissonance by those with a pro-Carolina bias and an anti-Fletcher bias.

Since when am I making excuses for Carolina?

 

[Lindberg]

Carolina's 10 year stretch of missing the Playoffs has no bearing on 2021 Carolina. They WERE mediocre. Now they are not. They'll be in the mix for quite a few years.

Wasn't Carolina for quite some time trying to spend very little real dollars until the new owner?

 

[renberg]

Do you think Fletcher will build a good team here?

The time proven approach to lines is to have a top scoring one; a secondary scoring one; an energy line and a checking one. The organization's job is to find the players that fill the requisite roles on these lines. Not with this coaching staff. AV looks to try to roll four lines of equal ability. Thats a jack of all trades, master of none way of playing up front. It doesn't cut it.
Look at most of the teams that are still in the POs. They have a top line that can generate goals when needed. Do the Flyers have that under AV? They also have a reliable checking line that will strangle an opponent's offense. Do the Flyers have that? It's one reason why they get outscored. Could they have a scoring and a shut down line if they used the players on the roster properly? Could be but that won't happen as long as AV is here with his four equal lines approach.

 

[Rebels57]

Wasn't Carolina for quite some time trying to spend very little real dollars until the new owner?

I dunno but they definitely overhauled everything top to bottom, with a heavy emphasis on analytics, and it's rocketed them up the standings into a perennial contender.

 

[Rebels57]

The time proven approach to lines is to have a top scoring one; a secondary scoring one; an energy line and a checking one. The organization's job is to find the players that fill the requisite roles on these lines. Not with this coaching staff. AV looks to try to roll four lines of equal ability. Thats a jack of all trades, master of none way of playing up front. It doesn't cut it.
Look at most of the teams that are still in the POs. They have a top line that can generate goals when needed. Do the Flyers have that under AV? They also have a reliable checking line that will strangle an opponent's offense. Do the Flyers have that? It's one reason why they get outscored. Could they have a scoring and a shut down line if they used the players on the roster properly? Could be but that won't happen as long as AV is here with his four equal lines approach.

AV had the f***ing Selke winner last year and instead matched up Thompson vs Barzal.