Pre-Game Talk: Minnesota Wild vs. St. Louis Blues Round One of the Playoffs Talk

[Dbrownss]

So from what I've gathered the Blues key to victory is solving Dubnyk...which they have.

With the Hawks they had to deal with Crawford and shut down Toews, Kane, Keith, Hossa, and Sharp. Plus dealing with Bickell.

I'm still taken away that all eyes are on Dubnyk....last year the Hawks loaded top 6 burned us....not their Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep line up. It also burned the Wild too.

 

[Alklha]

Serious question: do teams embrace a "whatever it takes to win" strategy and then purposely attempt to injure players on the other team? I know that publicly this will never be accepted as truth, but just like NFL, I believe that some organizations go above and beyond physical play against other teams skilled players.

King boarding Pietrangelo, Seabrook headhunting Backes, Brown's attempted elbow/knee

A couple of players might have that in them, but the overwhelming majority don't.

Things change in the playoffs with so many games against the same opponent in a short period of time, so how players play changes a bit as well. Players want to make things more difficult, finish their hits etc, it means the opposition always have that in the back of their mind. No doubt more injuries come from that, but I don't think the idea is to injure.

 

[Twisted Blue]

A couple of players might have that in them, but the overwhelming majority don't.

Things change in the playoffs with so many games against the same opponent in a short period of time, so how players play changes a bit as well. Players want to make things more difficult, finish their hits etc, it means the opposition always have that in the back of their mind. No doubt more injuries come from that, but I don't think the idea is to injure.

It's not just the Hawks or Kings, John Moore of the Rangers took Weise's head off in the ECF vs the Habs last year on a very dirty hit. These hits seem intentional and beyond the scope of physical play in the playoffs. I am sure that I can find many more examples, just wonder if the NHL has it's own version of Bounty-Gate since the suspensions/fines don't seem to be a factor when teams want to win the Cup at all costs.

 

[BlueDream]

So from what I've gathered the Blues key to victory is solving Dubnyk...which they have.

With the Hawks they had to deal with Crawford and shut down Toews, Kane, Keith, Hossa, and Sharp. Plus dealing with Bickell.

I'm still taken away that all eyes are on Dubnyk....last year the Hawks loaded top 6 burned us....not their Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep line up. It also burned the Wild too.

It's funny how the Wild would be toast without Dubnyk, and even their fans know it. Yet somehow they are the best wild card team in NHL history.

After all this talk about Dubnyk being an MVP candidate, I think Dubnyk will end up being a weak link for Minnesota, I really do. He's been hot but he's only had one good game against us in his career. I do not see this guy shutting down our offense in a 7-game series. I think guys like Steen, Schwartz, Tarasenko, Stastny, Backes, Shattenkirk, Pietrangelo are too good of players, that they will find ways to score. Dubnyk isn't Carey Price no matter what argument people try to make.

I am so excited to get this series going and I won't be calm until the Blues prove to me I can relax, but I really do think they'll get this done. And I want them to do it in as convincing of a fashion as possible.

 

[Alklha]

It's not just the Hawks or Kings, John Moore of the Rangers took Weise's head off in the ECF vs the Habs last year on a very dirty hit. These hits seem intentional and beyond the scope of physical play in the playoffs. I am sure that I can find many more examples, just wonder if the NHL has it's own version of Bounty-Gate since the suspensions/fines don't seem to be a factor when teams want to win the Cup at all costs.

That's the thing with the mentality change, it makes more players more likely to put themselves in bad positions. When the coach is stressing to finish your checks, make sure the opposition is always expecting the hit, then some players are going to just make stupid plays in their attempts. Doesn't really matter the team, most teams play up to this in the playoffs.

Maybe I'm giving them too much benefit of the doubt.

 

[Arturia Pendragon]

Wild fan here, in peace .

First I have to say what an awesome team you guys have. Truly will be a test for the Wild. In a way, you guys remind me of that Boston team a couple years ago that won the cup. Just a big, mean, and skilled team. Heck you could even go back to that '07 Ducks team (I think it was), another example of a big and skilled team.

Goal-tending will be an interesting story with Dubnyk (can he keep it going?) and the potential of you guys swapping between Elliot and Allen (I think you should stick with Allen *shrugs*).

The player I'm most terrified of is Tarasenko. Just has that dynamic game breaking ability that is difficult to contain. Hopefully the Wild can shut him down. Anywho, here is to a great series! I'm excited to see how the Wild can handle one of the west's best (if not THE best) teams. Lots of respect from me, which by the way, don't let idiots on our boards speak for intelligent posters.

 

[medkit]

It's not just the Hawks or Kings, John Moore of the Rangers took Weise's head off in the ECF vs the Habs last year on a very dirty hit. These hits seem intentional and beyond the scope of physical play in the playoffs. I am sure that I can find many more examples, just wonder if the NHL has it's own version of Bounty-Gate since the suspensions/fines don't seem to be a factor when teams want to win the Cup at all costs.

Without endorsing it, I absolutely do think this happens. A lot of bottom 6 players out there know one of their jobs is to play the opponent's stars as tough as possible, and some take that duty too far. Could there be a coach or locker room culture pushing for that? It's a "tough guy" game so it's easy to imagine. If it has happened in the NFL I see no reason why it couldn't happen in the NHL.

Just look at that .gif you posted.. absolutely intentional all the way through. There's a ton of that sort of thing in the playoffs. Fans gloss over it a lot and some of it is off camera. I don't think King is sitting there thinking "I want Sobotka's career to be in jeopardy" but rather "I want this guy to be out or suck the rest of the series."

The Wild aren't a very physical team outside of Cooke so I'm not sure how much of it we will see this series, but I'm sure Pietrangelo is always wary of it. I think it's part of the reason why teams are so vague about injuries this time of year: So those injuries don't get targeted. For instance, if the Hawks knew about Berglund's collarbone last year they would have aimed a few more shoulders there. I seem to remember Duncan Keith slashing at Tarasenko's hand a lot during faceoffs as well.

Of course a lot of this doesn't get called, but some of it does. That's where having a special teams advantage kicks in. Remember we couldn't punish the Kings at all on the PP and they took plenty of liberties and killed off the resulting PPs. They knew they could push that line. This year, we've got a great PK, the Wild have a poor PP, and we have the top PP in the West, so I expect us to really push our physical advantage like the Kings did then (And Hawks/Bruins have done).

 

[LGB51]

Going with Allen makes sense given his recent play. I would hope that if Allen struggles that Hitch won't hesitate to turn to Elliott.

Completely disagree with you, Hitch and this team need to actually show some balls, and maybe a little confidence in the their decisions and the players they're making these decisions about. Hitch made his choice, if Allen has a bad game or two, then Hitch needs to show he believes in his choice and ride it out, let him play himself out of the jam.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

The issue with some Wild fans and the analysis of the season:

Bad first half, lost lots of games, terrible goaltending.
Second half: Dubnyk playing lights out, incredible run.

But I keep hearing about how deep and complete the Wild are, and it seems like there is no acknowledgement of how they managed to lose all the games in the first half. I think even subpar goaltending, a good team will win half their games. But that's not really what was happening.

In other words, I think the Wild have gone on a great run, but its a bit of a rush. They went into playoff hockey mode early (out of necessity) and have played with great intensity and commitment for the past few months to claw back into the playoffs. Dubnyk has played great during that stretch.

Can they find a higher gear for the post-season? I just don't see where that would come from. There is no question in my mind that the Blues have not played at their best very often, and its easy to imagine them finding a higher gear in the post-season. They've ramped up to it, parallel to how the PK has ramped up in the last few weeks.

 

[Arturia Pendragon]

The issue with some Wild fans and the analysis of the season:

Bad first half, lost lots of games, terrible goaltending.
Second half: Dubnyk playing lights out, incredible run.

But I keep hearing about how deep and complete the Wild are, and it seems like there is no acknowledgement of how they managed to lose all the games in the first half. I think even subpar goaltending, a good team will win half their games. But that's not really what was happening.

In other words, I think the Wild have gone on a great run, but its a bit of a rush. They went into playoff hockey mode early (out of necessity) and have played with great intensity and commitment for the past few months to claw back into the playoffs. Dubnyk has played great during that stretch.

Can they find a higher gear for the post-season? I just don't see where that would come from. There is no question in my mind that the Blues have not played at their best very often, and its easy to imagine them finding a higher gear in the post-season. They've ramped up to it, parallel to how the PK has ramped up in the last few weeks.

This is spot on.
Our first half was ravaged by (as you mentioned) terrible goaltending, mumps (your team was too ), and injuries to our top 4 defenseman.
In comes Dubnyk, and while, yes, he has played lights out... it is completely fair for any fan of another team to criticize just which wild team will show up in the PO's. I know I have.

At best, I have cautious optimism for the Wild. But there are several realities (some of which other Wild fans fail to recognize), one being that Dubnyk comes back down to earth. Another reality is that our second half of the season was highlighted by a large amount of what you'd call "cupcake" teams, and that our final seven games (which included CHI, NYR, STL, NSH, LA, WPG, DET) we went 3-4.

Anyways, I'll stop lurking here, ha .
Best of luck.

 

[thedustman]

can't wait to watch Reavis and Otthead skate around on Lake Titicaca. Even tho thats in Bolivia.

 

[Dbrownss]

This is spot on.
Our first half was ravaged by (as you mentioned) terrible goaltending, mumps (your team was too ), and injuries to our top 4 defenseman.
In comes Dubnyk, and while, yes, he has played lights out... it is completely fair for any fan of another team to criticize just which wild team will show up in the PO's. I know I have.

At best, I have cautious optimism for the Wild. But there are several realities (some of which other Wild fans fail to recognize), one being that Dubnyk comes back down to earth. Another reality is that our second half of the season was highlighted by a large amount of what you'd call "cupcake" teams, and that our final seven games (which included CHI, NYR, STL, NSH, LA, WPG, DET) we went 3-4.

Anyways, I'll stop lurking here, ha .
Best of luck.

Stop being so level headed! This is the time of the year for blinding homerism!!!!

This Blues fan is cautiously optimistic.....seriously I'm scared ****less...this is put up or shut up for the Blues. BIG TIME.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Wild fan here, in peace .

First I have to say what an awesome team you guys have. Truly will be a test for the Wild. In a way, you guys remind me of that Boston team a couple years ago that won the cup. Just a big, mean, and skilled team. Heck you could even go back to that '07 Ducks team (I think it was), another example of a big and skilled team.

Goal-tending will be an interesting story with Dubnyk (can he keep it going?) and the potential of you guys swapping between Elliot and Allen (I think you should stick with Allen *shrugs*).

The player I'm most terrified of is Tarasenko. Just has that dynamic game breaking ability that is difficult to contain. Hopefully the Wild can shut him down. Anywho, here is to a great series! I'm excited to see how the Wild can handle one of the west's best (if not THE best) teams. Lots of respect from me, which by the way, don't let idiots on our boards speak for intelligent posters.

The Blues have had nice regular seasons punctuated with really tough first round match-ups the last 3 years. The way I see this going, I can easily imagine Minnesota feeling the same way after this season. They drew a really tough match-up, which for a 100 point team would normally have been more manageable.

The Blues have yet to execute and prove it, but we'll see soon how that goes. I think you're going to see a confident, healthy Blues team that is tired of losing in the first round. I don't think its going to be very easy to bury them, and I'm not convinced the Wild are the team to do it.

 

[DeuceNine]

It's not just the Hawks or Kings, John Moore of the Rangers took Weise's head off in the ECF vs the Habs last year on a very dirty hit. These hits seem intentional and beyond the scope of physical play in the playoffs. I am sure that I can find many more examples, just wonder if the NHL has it's own version of Bounty-Gate since the suspensions/fines don't seem to be a factor when teams want to win the Cup at all costs.

For sure it's cheap and unsportsmanlike, but objectively many times things make sense depending on the tradeoff (note that is NOT an endorsement of these plays). Think about it: if some grinder or secondary scorer gets suspended for a game or two but knocks out a key threat for the rest of a series, that's a good trade for many coaches to get behind.

This is spot on.
Our first half was ravaged by (as you mentioned) terrible goaltending, mumps (your team was too ), and injuries to our top 4 defenseman.
In comes Dubnyk, and while, yes, he has played lights out... it is completely fair for any fan of another team to criticize just which wild team will show up in the PO's. I know I have.

At best, I have cautious optimism for the Wild. But there are several realities (some of which other Wild fans fail to recognize), one being that Dubnyk comes back down to earth. Another reality is that our second half of the season was highlighted by a large amount of what you'd call "cupcake" teams, and that our final seven games (which included CHI, NYR, STL, NSH, LA, WPG, DET) we went 3-4.

Anyways, I'll stop lurking here, ha .
Best of luck.

Your team is on the rise again, so in many ways you guys can take things a little easier as fans regardless of how things play out this year. Blues fans, well, we're more than antsy. Honestly I'd be OK with a WCF provided we don't fold in that series, but really we're good enough to win. The frustrating part is a perennial lack of execution, not laying back saying "well, we didn't have the talent anyway."

 

[fishsandwichpatrol]

People nationally are freaking out about our goalie situation, and I actually think it's fine. We have a young, up and coming guy who has played exceptionally well the last few weeks, and if he falters, we have a guy that has playoff starting experience and is as determined as anyone to get that job back. It keeps Jake on his toes knowing Ells is chompingat the bit to get back in the game. It could be better(like having an established stud like Rinne, Hank, Price) but it's far from the huge Achilles Heal people make it out to be.

I read Hank as Halak

heh

 

[BlueDream]

I am so confident in the Blues bulldozing right over Minnesota. Can't wait to get this started.

 

[Meatwagon]

I am so confident in the Blues bulldozing right over Minnesota. Can't wait to get this started.

I am too, and as a jaded Blues fan, that scares the crap out of me and I don't know how to feel anymore

 

[Dbrownss]

I am too, and as a jaded Blues fan, that scares the crap out of me and I don't know how to feel anymore

BINGO!! Lol

 

[Sniper]

Serious question: do teams embrace a "whatever it takes to win" strategy and then purposely attempt to injure players on the other team? I know that publicly this will never be accepted as truth, but just like NFL, I believe that some organizations go above and beyond physical play against other teams skilled players.

King boarding Pietrangelo, Seabrook headhunting Backes, Brown's attempted elbow/knee

Not to get off-topic, but it looks like Subban may have already answered your question...

 

[sbet1998]

I am too, and as a jaded Blues fan, that scares the crap out of me and I don't know how to feel anymore

Feel the same. Confident but waiting for some disaster to hit. Injuries or pucks just wanting to bounce off **** into the Blues net like that game in MIN they "dominated." Then I think this has got to be the Blues year because they are loaded, coasted for 3/4 of the season and still finished 1st in the toughest division/conference. Then I realize that doesnt matter if they cant execute. So much second guessing.. Just play the damn games already.

 

[JustOneB4IDie]

Blues in 5 man. Dubnyk will be exposed when it matters as a mediocre goalie, JS. And on the matter of Allen over Elliott, you go with the hot hand in Allen, who along with whom I always considered a "1A" goalie in Elliott was kept over local product drafted and developed and never got a chance here in the Lou, stud Big Ben Bishop now in Tampa. Hitch is doing the right thing starting Allen in Game 1.

 

[Dbrownss]

Wild fans are going to have to reevaluate the whole "special teams aren't important" line of thinking. Not sure why they would think that to begin with. Blues had a top 5 PP most of the year with at least 1 of the QBs missing 90% of the 2nd half. IIRC the PK was 2nd best in the 2nd half

 

[The Note]

Wild fans are going to have to reevaluate the whole "special teams aren't important" line of thinking. Not sure why they would think that to begin with. Blues had a top 5 PP most of the year with at least 1 of the QBs missing 90% of the 2nd half. IIRC the PK was 2nd best in the 2nd half

All you have to do is look at the Blues futility on the PP last year against the Hawks. It was absolutely dreadful and could have been the difference. The PK has been one of the best in the league since March for the Blues, and the Power Play as you said, has been one of the best all year.

 

[Dbrownss]

All you have to do is look at the Blues futility on the PP last year against the Hawks. It was absolutely dreadful and could have been the difference. The PK has been one of the best in the league since March for the Blues, and the Power Play as you said, has been one of the best all year.

Yep, Hawks capitalized on the PP and we never did. Special teams are crucial in the playoffs, even if you only get 2-3 PPs a game

 

[sbet1998]

NSH **** the bed in that game. Its destiny, better get out of the first. I want the Blues to eliminate CHI, would be fun. First off, lets hope the Blues take care of the Wild.

IF the Blues roll the Wild, CHI will take notice.