Minnesota Wild General Discussion VI

[57special]

Koivu has been very good this year. He is one of our top 2 C's.

One good game by Coyle is good, but shouldn't unduly influence things, unless he finally grows up and starts showing consistency. I do have a bit of sympathy because he has been played all over the map from 1-3 rd line, PP, PK, RW, C. Having said that, it's time for him, (and a few others) to show that they want to be part of the solution here, rather than part of the problem. Charlie should be able to score 15-20 g/yr, and 25-30a consistently. It does, of course, depend on who he is playing with, and whether he gets PP TOI.

I say all this as a Coyle fan.

Really want him to do well, and think he is one of the players who can turn this team into a Cup contender if he plays like he can all of the time. I understand that some games the puck doesn't bounce for you, but i've got to see him prepare for games better. I know he trains his body seriously, and I respect the time and energy that takes, but he's got to start working on his mind and spirit, also. Some guys like Spurgeon and Parise have it automatically, but Coyle(and a few others) need to work at it.

 

[Goose312]

The issue with Parise - Koivu - X line is that Parise is a hustle and speed guy. Koivu is terribly slow, so they can't really feed off of each other. Coyle paired much better in that aspect and together they made some plays and created some odd man rushes that Koivu would never have been able to create in Coyle's place. I don't know if I'm ready to say Coyle should be the 2C, but I do believe that Koivu isn't the right guy play C for Parise.

I'd kind of like to see Greenway on a line with Parise and Nino. That's a solid possession line with a heavy forecheck and decent speed.

 

[57special]

Koivu is so smart that he makes up for his lack of speed with taking better routes. He is also a far better puck handler than Coyle...hell, he is just a far better player than Coyle. No shame in that.

Would love it if Coyle decides to take the 2C position away from Koivu, but i'm not holding my breath.

 

[nickschultzfan]

I'm coming dangerously close to becoming a full-on Coyle apologist, but I wonder: if this Parise-Coyle-Nino line continues to click while Koivu is out, what do we do when he gets back? I've generally been in the "Coyle is a RW" camp, but if he can be a reliable middle-6 center it'd solve a sticky problem for us now and going forward. Especially if it also helps to elevate Nino's game. Staal - Koivu - Coyle - Fehr as our centers this year isn't awful.

The question would be what to do with Eriksson-Ek, but if Kunin plays well and can hang on the 3rd line with Greenway I think you just send him down for the year. Where he plays next season is also up in the air, but a lot can (and probably will) happen over the summer. Boosting the value of your top two trade candidates while solving your biggest immediate problem internally and only having to send down a waivers-exempt player to do it seems like a pretty easy call.

We'll have to see how the next few weeks go, but if the team looks close to how they looked last night I'd lean toward this for the rest of the year:

Zucker - Staal - Granlund
Parise - Coyle - Nino
Greenway - Koivu - Kunin

Maybe flip Coyle and Koivu, but I like keeping that 2nd line intact and giving the rookies a veteran center to play with. I'm not sure if they can keep up with the defensive responsibilities that Koivu's line tends to carry, but neither have been slouches defensively.

Edit: I would write all that out right as it comes out that Koivu's practicing today.

I wouldn't mind putting Koivu with Greenway and JEE on the 3rd line and using them as a true shutdown line.

Not sure if the 2nd line would keep it up, but barring a trade, it's a decent idea.

I'm in no rush to see Kunin in Minnesota. Last thing I want is another young player with some offense skill stuck in 2nd gear in the bottom-6 for the first couple of NHL season.

 

[2Pair]

Koivu is always going to draw the toughest matchup, so having 2 rookies with him probably doesn't work. There's no reason that Greenway Coyle Kunin can't be a better line than Greenway Ek Coyle though. Trying to have Greenway and Kunin find their way in the NHL without giving them an actual center is a terrible plan.

 

[Bazeek]

Sounds like Koivu's absence will be pretty short.



Still hope they just keep Coyle at center, though

 

[grimmel95]

I would do whatever it takes to improve Coyle's return for us. We've had the same core basically for 6 trips to the playoffs and we've done nothing. We need to make changes and we know those changes won't be Suter, Parise or Koivu so that leaves players like Coyle, Nino, Zucker, Brodin and maybe Spurgeon.

 

[57special]

Thing is, if Coyle and Nino can raise their game to 2016 levels, then that's exactly what the Wild need. No need to trade anyone. I just can't see any physical reason why Nino can't be a 25 g scorer again, and Coyle a versatile 45-55 point player with good defense.

Love the Spurgeon Brodin pairing. Brodin is activating more than I've ever seen him, yet Spurgeon is still getting his points, and then some.

 

[Goose312]

So at least starting out with Parise - Coyle - Nino staying together.

 

[Bazeek]

Thing is, if Coyle and Nino can raise their game to 2016 levels, then that's exactly what the Wild need. No need to trade anyone. I just can't see any physical reason why Nino can't be a 25 g scorer again, and Coyle a versatile 45-55 point player with good defense.

Love the Spurgeon Brodin pairing. Brodin is activating more than I've ever seen him, yet Spurgeon is still getting his points, and then some.

Brodin's only 2 goals away from matching his career high

As near as I can figure, Nashville's blueline (which I think led the league last year?) put up 55 goals in 2017-18. The Wild's blueline are on pace for 66 this year. Granted a lot of that is Dumba, but not all of it. Even Seeler seems to get the puck on net a lot and create rebounds.

 

[TaLoN]

Thing is, if Coyle and Nino can raise their game to 2016 levels, then that's exactly what the Wild need. No need to trade anyone. I just can't see any physical reason why Nino can't be a 25 g scorer again, and Coyle a versatile 45-55 point player with good defense.

Love the Spurgeon Brodin pairing. Brodin is activating more than I've ever seen him, yet Spurgeon is still getting his points, and then some.

And how is relying on Coyle now after two good games any different than we've done with for years when he failed to live up to his billing?

We already knew he would show up for a short time then vanish for months. Why do you think this will ultimately be any different?

I look at this as potential stock raising.

 

[Bazeek]

And how is relying on Coyle now after two good games any different than we've done with for years when he failed to live up to his billing?

We already knew he would show up for a short time then vanish for months. Why do you think this will ultimately be any different?

I look at this as potential stock raising.

I don't totally disagree, but if Coyle can serve as a middle-6 center for the year I think trading him merits reevaluation. Coyle's biggest problem has been consistency, but if he plays a consistent game when put in a consistent situation most of the problems evaporate. Especially if he does it at center.

All bets are off once summer hits, but having Coyle as a 2/3C option gives us a lot more flexibility in terms of moves.

 

[TaLoN]

I don't totally disagree, but if Coyle can serve as a middle-6 center for the year I think trading him merits reevaluation. Coyle's biggest problem has been consistency, but if he plays a consistent game when put in a consistent situation most of the problems evaporate. Especially if he does it at center.

All bets are off once summer hits, but having Coyle as a 2/3C option gives us a lot more flexibility in terms of moves.

I will never expect consistency out of Coyle ever. He's been consistently on the wing for years.

 

[Bazeek]

I will never expect consistency out of Coyle ever. He's been consistently on the wing for years.

As it stands I don't expect his performance to last all season, but I do expect Coyle to be a better 3C option than Ek this year. So keep him at center. If he does well there for half a season I'll be a lot less worried about his consistency issues. If someone makes a compelling offer at that point, by all means trade him. But I'd hope that Fenton has a better plan for our centers next year than Staal - Koivu - Eriksson-Ek

 

[TaLoN]

A better option than Ek is a low bar to set.

 

[Bazeek]

A better option than Ek is a low bar to set.

Yup.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Who cares if it's fools gold. Ride the fools gold until it shows itself.

 

[57special]

And how is relying on Coyle now after two good games any different than we've done with for years when he failed to live up to his billing?

We already knew he would show up for a short time then vanish for months. Why do you think this will ultimately be any different?

I look at this as potential stock raising.

So, did 2016-17 just not happen? Am i imagining it? Is it impossible that Coyle produces like that, or near it(I'd be happy with 50 pts. from him)?

 

[TaLoN]

So, did 2016-17 just not happen? Am i imagining it? Is it impossible that Coyle produces like that, or near it(I'd be happy with 50 pts. from him)?

16-17? You mean the season he was on fire for 2 months then vanished the rest of the season (and postseason and the entire following season and much of this season as well)?

 

[57special]

16-17? You mean the season he was on fire for 2 months then vanished the rest of the season (and postseason and the entire following season and much of this season as well)?

If he scored 56 points, he scored 56 points. Are you trying to say that you wouldn't take that now? Most scorers are streaky, especially when they don't get much PP TOI.
WTH do you think 3.2M buys you in the NHL?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Charlie Coyle in 2016-17:

1st ~2 months: 9 goals and 19 points
2nd ~2 months: 5 goals and 25 points
3rd ~2 months: 6 goals and 14 points (includes 5 playoff games)

 

[TaLoN]

Charlie Coyle in 2016-17:

1st ~2 months: 9 goals and 19 points
2nd ~2 months: 5 goals and 25 points
3rd ~2 months: 6 goals and 14 points (includes 5 playoff games)

First two months, 15pts in 22gms, .68pts/gm
Second two months, 23pts in 27gms, .85pts/gm
Rest of the season and playoffs, 20pts in 38gms, .53pts/gm

Charlie Coyle

If he scored 56 points, he scored 56 points. Are you trying to say that you wouldn't take that now? Most scorers are streaky, especially when they don't get much PP TOI.
WTH do you think 3.2M buys you in the NHL?

Coyle has always gotten more pp time than he deserves. Last year was the first year he was getting less, but that was only after he failed on the pp for almost half a season.

For the record, I've never complained about his contract, I've just wanted a better player that shows up more often than not.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

First two months, 15pts in 22gms, .68pts/gm
Second two months, 23pts in 27gms, .85pts/gm
Rest of the season and playoffs, 20pts in 38gms, .53pts/gm

Charlie Coyle

I was going by 30 days being a "month", so October 13 to around December 13 (and so on).

 

[Wabit]

So, did 2016-17 just not happen? Am i imagining it? Is it impossible that Coyle produces like that, or near it(I'd be happy with 50 pts. from him)?

Coyle was just as on or off in 16-17 season.
-13g/24a (37p) in the first 45 games of the season. (some combo of Parise, Nino, Staal)
-4g/8a (12p)the next 31 games. They tried him with everyone to get his game (and the team's) going.
-1g/6a (7p) the last 6 games. (Hanzal/Pommer)

He just has no middle ground to his game, it's either on or off. It's not a gradual falling off of his game either, it's a drop off of a cliff.

I'm hoping he's on a hot streak that lasts until the TDL, ride it until then then trade him. He hasn't done much in the Playoffs to justify keeping him for that reason.

Plus I don't think hes in the long term plans. He'll get more on the open market than MN should pay him with his next contract. He took the safe money bet with his last contract and has been underpayed for all of the deal.

 

[TaLoN]

I was going by 30 days being a "month", so October 13 to around December 13 (and so on).

I was going by the actual months in question.