Minnesota Wild General Discussion VI

[Dr Jan Itor]

I was going by the actual months in question.

Fantastic. Proud of you.

 

[TaLoN]

Coyle was just as on or off in 16-17 season.
-13g/24a (37p) in the first 45 games of the season. (some combo of Parise, Nino, Staal)
-4g/8a (12p)the next 31 games. They tried him with everyone to get his game (and the team's) going.
-1g/6a (7p) the last 6 games. (Hanzal/Pommer)

He just has no middle ground to his game, it's either on or off. It's not a gradual falling off of his game either, it's a drop off of a cliff.

I'm hoping he's on a hot streak that lasts until the TDL, ride it until then then trade him. He hasn't done much in the Playoffs to justify keeping him for that reason.

Plus I don't think hes in the long term plans. He'll get more on the open market than MN should pay him with his next contract. He took the safe money bet with his last contract and has been underpayed for all of the deal.

Agreed, it would be easier to take off he had a middle ground, but he simply doesn't. I agree, I'm just hoping for him to boost his stock at this point.

 

[Bazeek]

Coyle was just as on or off in 16-17 season.
-13g/24a (37p) in the first 45 games of the season. (some combo of Parise, Nino, Staal)
-4g/8a (12p)the next 31 games. They tried him with everyone to get his game (and the team's) going.
-1g/6a (7p) the last 6 games. (Hanzal/Pommer)

He just has no middle ground to his game, it's either on or off. It's not a gradual falling off of his game either, it's a drop off of a cliff.

I'm hoping he's on a hot streak that lasts until the TDL, ride it until then then trade him. He hasn't done much in the Playoffs to justify keeping him for that reason.

Plus I don't think hes in the long term plans. He'll get more on the open market than MN should pay him with his next contract. He took the safe money bet with his last contract and has been underpayed for all of the deal.

Barring another team getting desperate and overpaying, is there any advantage to trading him at the deadline rather than waiting until the draft?

 

[TaLoN]

Fantastic. Proud of you.

Why so condescending?

 

[TaLoN]

Barring another team getting desperate and overpaying, is there any advantage to trading him at the deadline rather than waiting until the draft?

Playoff disappearance could hurt his value again.

 

[Bazeek]

Playoff disappearance could hurt his value again.

I doubt that'd affect his value all that much. If his history already indicates that he doesn't do well in the playoffs, one more data point isn't going to affect things. The TDL is also when playoff performance is going to be at the forefront of most GM's minds. At the draft you're more likely to see bids from teams like Arizona, Carolina and Florida that are just looking to make the playoffs.

More importantly, I don't think we're likely to trade him for anything that helps us more than Coyle himself does this year. Reading through other teams' forums, opposing fans are justifiably confused as to why the Wild are considering trading him when our biggest immediate need is a right-shot RW or center, ideally a young one with a few years on his contract.

But at the draft? Go crazy.

 

[TaLoN]

I doubt that'd affect his value all that much. If his history already indicates that he doesn't do well in the playoffs, one more data point isn't going to affect things. The TDL is also when playoff performance is going to be at the forefront of most GM's minds. At the draft you're more likely to see bids from teams like Arizona, Carolina and Florida that are just looking to make the playoffs.

More importantly, I don't think we're likely to trade him for anything that helps us more than Coyle himself does this year. Reading through other teams' forums, opposing fans are justifiably confused as to why the Wild are considering trading him when our biggest immediate need is a right-shot RW or center, ideally a young one with a few years on his contract.

But at the draft? Go crazy.

GMs often overreact at the deadline, it can work to our advantage. At the draft, trades have been becoming fewer and farther between.

 

[Bazeek]

GMs often overreact at the deadline, it can work to our advantage. At the draft, trades have been becoming fewer and farther between.

I'm definitely not opposed to benefiting from another team's desperation. But I'm also keen on not being that desperate team

 

[Wabit]

Barring another team getting desperate and overpaying, is there any advantage to trading him at the deadline rather than waiting until the draft?

A rental+1 has more value than a rental. It gives whoever gets him 2 Playoff pushes/runs, and 100 (rental+1) games compared to ~20 (rental) and more time to figure out if they want to re-sign or trade him the next year. The team getting him can recoup some of their losses if their next season goes sideways or he doesn't fit.

Coyle isn't a top-tier player (Panarin) that'll get a huge return no matter when he's traded. He's on a good contract; which helps offset a bad one going into next year too.

 

[Bazeek]

A rental+1 has more value than a rental. It gives whoever gets him 2 Playoff pushes/runs, and 100 (rental+1) games compared to ~20 (rental) and more time to figure out if they want to re-sign or trade him the next year. The team getting him can recoup some of their losses if their next season goes sideways or he doesn't fit.

Coyle isn't a top-tier player (Panarin) that'll get a huge return no matter when he's traded. He's on a good contract; which helps offset a bad one going into next year too.

That's a fair point, and I have to admit that teams like Boston and Philadelphia are almost certainly feeling more heat to make a deal now than they will at the draft.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Why so condescending?

I knew where you got your numbers. You supplied a link and it was clear to see. I had not supplied a link, so when you corrected my numbers, I figured I should let you know why they were different.

 

[Wabit]

That's a fair point, and I have to admit that teams like Boston and Philadelphia are almost certainly feeling more heat to make a deal now than they will at the draft.

Injuries could bring more teams into the mix too.

Buffalo with it's 3 1sts could be a buyer at the TDL too, and they need depth more than top end talent. They have some nice peices in the AHL, but they just aren't NHL ready. The extra year of Coyle could be valuable to them. Pommer's deal ends this year, and I'm not sure they want to bring him back for any real term/money. Especially when they want to keep Skinner, but he's going to be an expensive contract.

 

[Bazeek]

Injuries could bring more teams into the mix too.

Buffalo with it's 3 1sts could be a buyer at the TDL too, and they need depth more than top end talent. They have some nice peices in the AHL, but they just aren't NHL ready. The extra year of Coyle could be valuable to them. Pommer's deal ends this year, and I'm not sure they want to bring him back for any real term/money. Especially when they want to keep Skinner, but he's going to be an expensive contract.

Would you consider (say) San Jose's 1st worth going from Coyle to Eriksson-Ek at 3C for the year?

 

[TaLoN]

I knew where you got your numbers. You supplied a link and it was clear to see. I had not supplied a link, so when you corrected my numbers, I figured I should let you know why they were different.

That doesn't mean you have to be condescending.

I provided the link sure, but I was just pointing out that even before any of the numbers were posted, that I meant the actual months.

Misunderstandings occur too easily on message boards.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

That doesn't mean you have to be condescending.

I provided the link sure, but I was just pointing out that even before any of the numbers were posted, that I meant the actual months.

Misunderstandings occur too easily on message boards.

Probably a little carryover from the Koivu bit. My bad.

 

[Wabit]

Would you consider (say) San Jose's 1st worth going from Coyle to Eriksson-Ek at 3C for the year?

Considering neither have really been good as the 3C this year?
- I'm mostly holding on to Coyle until Koivu is back healthy. So that pushes it until after X-mas with the trade freeze in a couple of days
- I'd still prefer a close to NHL ready prospect over a straight pick right now. JFK from Bos is the trade I want to happen.
- I'd take the pick if MN was out of it at the TDL.

Coyle needs to string together more good games to get into the value range that most fans and GMPF is likely looking for. 2 good games doesn't do much to offset the ~25 bad ones he's had this year.

 

[Bazeek]

Considering neither have really been good as the 3C this year?
- I'm mostly holding on to Coyle until Koivu is back healthy. So that pushes it until after X-mas with the trade freeze in a couple of days
- I'd still prefer a close to NHL ready prospect over a straight pick right now. JFK from Bos is the trade I want to happen.
- I'd take the pick if MN was out of it at the TDL.

Coyle needs to string together more good games to get into the value range that most fans and GMPF is likely looking for. 2 good games doesn't do much to offset the ~25 bad ones he's had this year.

I could live with something around Coyle for JFK, should something like that come to pass.

 

[Wabit]

Stalock quote from an article about goalies and the chances of getting an ENG:

Alex Stalock is so prepared for his opportunity to score he has considered using a second goalie stick late in games when his Minnesota Wild have the lead.
"I want to get an empty net curve," Stalock said with a laugh. "Come to the bench and get one with a big-old heel curve so you can launch it up and over everyone."

Goalies elated at more opportunities for them to score goal

 

[AKL]

Run this when everyone is back:

Zucker-Staal-Granlund
Greenway-Coyle-Kunin
Parise-Koivu-Nino
Foligno-Fehr-Hendricks/Brown

 

[TaLoN]

Run this when everyone is back:

Zucker-Staal-Granlund
Greenway-Coyle-Kunin
Parise-Koivu-Nino
Foligno-Fehr-Hendricks/Brown

Actually, looking at Staal continuing to struggle... I say go with

Zucker-Koivu-Granlund
Parise-Coyle-Nino
Greenway-Staal-Kunin
And the rest

 

[AKL]

Actually, looking at Staal continuing to struggle... I say go with

Zucker-Koivu-Granlund
Parise-Coyle-Nino
Greenway-Staal-Kunin
And the rest

I just don’t like Koivu with Granlund and Zucker. IMO your lines look fine too, I would just switch Coyle and Koivu’s wingers.

 

[TaLoN]

I just don’t like Koivu with Granlund and Zucker. IMO your lines look fine too, I would just switch Coyle and Koivu’s wingers.

If that line regains the form of two years ago... why not? That was one of the best lines in the entire league that year. I say it's worth giving a shot.

I chose those lines to keep the current 2nd line together.

 

[AKL]

If that line regains the form of two years ago... why not? That was one of the best lines in the entire league that year. I say it's worth giving a shot.

Anything is worth a shot at this point, I just don’t know how much changing he lines can really spark this team to score. Most of them are just so inconsistent. Granlund seems to be good for about a point every game, but everyone else is just streaky.

 

[2Pair]

Run this when everyone is back:

Zucker-Staal-Granlund
Greenway-Coyle-Kunin
Parise-Koivu-Nino
Foligno-Fehr-Hendricks/Brown

I would switch Kunin and Nino

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Whatever the combination, I’ve always preferred each older guy to skate with 2 of the youngers.