Mike Modano or Mats Sundin?

[Filthy Dangles]

Who do you think was the better player?

Click to read more...

 

[TheProspector]

Sundin, and it's not even close.

 

[Regal]

Sundin, and it's not even close.

Lol

Modano. He basically put up the same numbers while being better defensively.

 

[bobholly39]

Sundin for career/prime

Modano may have been "better" though

 

[La Masse]

Sundin

 

[hairylikebear]

Sundin's Hart finishes: 8, 12, 16, 18, 18
Modano's: 7, 7, 10, 11, 12, 19

And Modano has the cup.

There's no argument here for Sundin, even though he was a great player.

 

[ESH]

Sundin, and it's not even close.

How so?

 

[Plural]

Modano. Although Sundins international resume closes the gap considerably.

 

[DitchMarner]

I'm a Leafs fan, but I like both.

I'd say Sundin was better offensively (in that he had greater longevity offensively) and Modano was better defensively. Neither player peaked particularly high for players of their calibre, but Modano was better overall in his best seasons because of his combination of offense and very good if not high-end defense.

Sundin has 15 seasons with 70+ points; Modano has 12. Sundin's career PPG average is higher than 1.00; Modano's is lower than 1.00, but he hung around longer than Sundin did.

In the regular season, they're really close, but Modano did have back to back playoffs with 23 points (including a Cup win) and a playoffs with 20 points early on in his career.

In just the NHL, I'd say Modano, but if we consider International hockey, I'm not sure. Sundin was definitely better for Team Sweden than Modano was for Team USA.

 

[DitchMarner]

Sundin's Hart finishes: 8, 12, 16, 18, 18
Modano's: 7, 7, 10, 11, 12, 19

And Modano has the cup.

There's no argument here for Sundin, even though he was a great player.

Sundin did break 100 points, though (he had 114 in '93). I'm not sure how, but Mike never did.

However, he did have 59 points in 52 games in '98 and his PPG average that season was better than Bure's and Gretzky's and as good as Lindros'.

 

[GodEmperor]

Sundin.

Sundin had a higher peak.

Sundin had better ppg.

Sundin could've kept playing if he wanted to, Modano was done at the end of his career.

Modano's last ppg season came when he was 33, Sundin's last ppg year was 36.

Sundin was the more consistent, had higher peak and was better longer, maybe Modano was the better defensive player, but that's it.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

It's a good comparison. Both were large centers (and although neither was soft, neither played with much physicality). Their careers largely overlapped. Both players were clearly the best scorer on their team for the majority of their careers. Both were very consistent. Finally, both were very loyal to their teams (and both had disappointing stints elsewhere in their last season).

The arguments for Sundin are:

Although Modano was consistent from year to year, and had a long prime, Sundin fared better in both of these areas. The Swedish centre was top 40 in scoring every year from 1992 to 2008, while the American was top 40 in scoring most years from 1992 to 2006 - except for 1995, 1998 (just barely missed) and 2004. (But if you raise the standard to finishing in the top twenty, Sundin did so seven times in twelve years; Modano did that five years straight, and seven times in ten years - so it's very close).

Sundin was better on the international stage. (Modano was very good, but there's no argument that he was better than #13).

The arguments for Modano are:

Modano had a higher peak. (Don't tell me that Sundin had the better peak due to 1993; scoring was really high that year and Sundin was only 11th in scoring). Sundin never placed in the top ten in Hart voting. Modano did so three times (1997, 2000, and 2003). Modano earned roughly twice as many Hart votes as Sundin over the course of their careers. Modano also has more years as top ten scorer (3-2). (Counter-argument: Sundin has two years as a year-end all-star, as opposed to Modano's one).

Modano was a much better defensive player. Sundin was fairly average. Modano was excellent from 1997 onwards (he peaked at 3rd in Selke voting, and had four years in the top ten).

Modano was a better playoff performer. It`s true that Sundin scored a bit more on a per game basis. But Modano maintained his high average during deeper playoff runs (five conference finals appearances vs two), and he played more games while past his prime (37 games played after age 32, compared to just eight for Sundin). Modano leading the playoffs in assists two years in a row (and finishing runner-up in scoring both times), while being a top two-way forward, is much more impressive than anything Sundin accomplished in the postseason.

Overall I'd say this is close, but still clearly Modano. Their offensive output is very similar. Sundin was better internationally, and his prime was a bit longer and more consistent. But Modano got more Hart consideration, was better in the playoffs, and better defensively - he was the better player and had the better career.

 

[DitchMarner]

It's a good comparison. Both were large centers (and although neither was soft, neither played with much physicality). Their careers largely overlapped. Both players were clearly the best scorer on their team for the majority of their careers. Both were very consistent. Finally, both were very loyal to their teams (and both had disappointing stints elsewhere in their last season).

The arguments for Sundin are:

Although Modano was consistent from year to year, and had a long prime, Sundin fared better in both of these areas. The Swedish centre was top 40 in scoring every year from 1992 to 2008, while the American was top 40 in scoring most years from 1992 to 2006 - except for 1995, 1998 (just barely missed) and 2004. (But if you raise the standard to finishing in the top twenty, Sundin did so seven times in twelve years; Modano did that five years straight, and seven times in ten years - so it's very close).

Sundin was better on the international stage. (Modano was very good, but there's no argument that he was better than #13).

The arguments for Modano are:

Modano had a higher peak. (Don't tell me that Sundin had the better peak due to 1993; scoring was really high that year and Sundin was only 11th in scoring). Sundin never placed in the top ten in Hart voting. Modano did so three times (1997, 2000, and 2003). Modano earned roughly twice as many Hart votes as Sundin over the course of their careers. Modano also has more years as top ten scorer (3-2). (Counter-argument: Sundin has two years as a year-end all-star, as opposed to Modano's one).

Modano was a much better defensive player. Sundin was fairly average. Modano was excellent from 1997 onwards (he peaked at 3rd in Selke voting, and had four years in the top ten).

Modano was a better playoff performer. It`s true that Sundin scored a bit more on a per game basis. But Modano maintained his high average during deeper playoff runs (five conference finals appearances vs two), and he played more games while past his prime (37 games played after age 32, compared to just eight for Sundin). Modano leading the playoffs in assists two years in a row (and finishing runner-up in scoring both times), while being a top two-way forward, is much more impressive than anything Sundin accomplished in the postseason.

Overall I'd say this is close, but still clearly Modano. Their offensive output is very similar. Sundin was better internationally, and his prime was a bit longer and more consistent. But Modano got more Hart consideration, was better in the playoffs, and better defensively - he was the better player and had the better career.

He finished eighth in Hart voting in 2002.

I agree for the most part, but I'm not sure Modano had the higher peak. He had plenty of seasons in the pre-dead puck era NHL himself (one more than Sundin) and he didn't hit 100 points. Even if Sundin's 1993 season isn't better than any of Modano's, perhaps his '97 or '02 season was. He finished fourth in scoring in '02 and seventh in scoring in '97. Modano's highest scoring finish was eighth. However, Modano was better defensively in his best seasons than Sundin was in his best and his highest finish in Hart voting was higher than Sundin's best.

Hockey Reference's adjusted points give Modano's best seasons 95 (79 games), 92 (77 games) and 91 (81 games) adjusted points and give Sundin's best seasons 97 (82 games), 95 (82 games) and 92 (80 games) adjusted points.

Maybe we can discuss who had the better peak.

 

[authentic]

HO summed it up, they were close but it's hard not to give Modano the slight edge.

 

[34]

Sundin.

 

[7even]

Nice poll.

 

[tony d]

Modano, Sundin was good but Modano had a better all around game.

 

[Peiskos]

Sundin's Hart finishes: 8, 12, 16, 18, 18
Modano's: 7, 7, 10, 11, 12, 19

And Modano has the cup.

There's no argument here for Sundin, even though he was a great player.

Sundin captained Sweden to 2006 Olympic Gold. A title that has eluded USA Hockey for nearly half a century.

 

[Hasbro]

Lol

Modano. He basically put up the same numbers while being better defensively.

He also put those numbers up at the biggest Pitcher's Park in the league and for a coach who hated scoring.

 

[Peiskos]

Mats Sundin put up roughly identical career points in a significantly fewer number of games played. Now I know it may not be as simple as this but its worth mentioning.

Modano - 1499 GP, 561 G, 813 A, 1374 points +114

Sundin - 1346 GP, 564, 785 A, 1349 points +73

That's 153 fewer games for Sundin, yet Sundin managed more goals and the assists are nearly identical.

Have to go with Sundin here. He did more with less. Both with regards to the number of games played and the teams he played on.

 

[Voight]

Sundin's Hart finishes: 8, 12, 16, 18, 18
Modano's: 7, 7, 10, 11, 12, 19

And Modano has the cup.

There's no argument here for Sundin, even though he was a great player.

Sundin has two 2nd AST, plus he scored at least 70 points in every season except his first and last. His international career is also outstanding.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Sundin for peak but Modano for prime. They were scoring roughly the same amount of points with Modano being much better defensively.

Modanos prime(‘97-‘03) he was at a 1.07 PPG while being among the top two way players in the game. He was also one of the top post season players during this time as well.

Sundin did have longevity, but I feel his prime wasn’t as impressive compared to Modanos.

 

[hairylikebear]

Sundin captained Sweden to 2006 Olympic Gold. A title that has eluded USA Hockey for nearly half a century.

As a leader, I take Sundin every time. The poll is asking who is the better player.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

He finished eighth in Hart voting in 2002.

I agree for the most part, but I'm not sure Modano had the higher peak. He had plenty of seasons in the pre-dead puck era NHL himself (one more than Sundin) and he didn't hit 100 points. Even if Sundin's 1993 season isn't better than any of Modano's, perhaps his '97 or '02 season was. He finished fourth in scoring in '02 and seventh in scoring in '97. Modano's highest scoring finish was eighth. However, Modano was better defensively in his best seasons than Sundin was in his best and his highest finish in Hart voting was higher than Sundin's best.

Hockey Reference's adjusted points give Modano's best seasons 95 (79 games), 92 (77 games) and 91 (81 games) adjusted points and give Sundin's best seasons 97 (82 games), 95 (82 games) and 92 (80 games) adjusted points.

Maybe we can discuss who had the better peak.

Good catch on Sundin's 2002 season - you're right, he got an 8th place finish that year in the Hart voting.

Based on hockey-reference.com's adjusted stats, their production is nearly even over their best three (95-93), best five (92-91) and best seven years (90-89). But Modano was quite a bit better defensively, which is why I think he had the better regular season peak.

But you're right - neither really had a huge "spike" season that they were probably capable of. Their hallmark was being very consistent and steady, at a high level of play, over very long periods of time.

Also - I think it's fairly well established that Sundin usually didn't have great linemates. But I think people forget just how heavily the Stars relied on Modano to carry their offense. In a span of eight years he led his team in scoring by 38, 30, 23, 22, 5, 28, and 30 points (with one year in the middle an injury write-off). I haven't done the calculations for Sundin - I'm sure they're similar - but I think Modano's importance to his team's offense often gets overlooked.

 

[Unspecified]

Modano and pretty easy choice for me having watched him most of his career. However i expect Sundin to win this poll for the sole reason of the amount of Toronto fans here on HF compared to Stars fans.