will you promise the same if he returns less than a 1st or doesn't get traded?
Value of: Mike Matheson
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Gurglesons
Registered User
The Avs? LOL. They have several better defenders than Matheson. Several excellent puck movers and PP QB options. They are the least likely team in the NHL to want Matheson.
Oilers don't work because of the term on Matheson's deal.
I'd say this about Matheson. If his contract was expiring and the Habs retained 50%, you'd easily get a 1st round pick. So wait it out.
Today with no retention and 2+ years of term left... No chance you'd touch a 1st in return unless you took back an ugly contract too.
?????? what
so you're saying teams wouldn't want a 22-23 min (minimum) dman at 4.9M for 2+ years? and possibly retained for an even lower cap hit? this is a negative and not a positive?
pls find me a dman still in his prime (post RFA) that can put up 50-60 points a season while playing 23-25 minutes a night at 3-4M
Gurglesons
Registered User
?????? what
so you're saying teams wouldn't want a 22-23 min (minimum) dman at 4.9M for 2+ years? and possibly retained for an even lower cap hit? this is a negative and not a positive?
Because Matheson is terrible defensively and is a skill set contenders don’t typically add which is why his contract was dumped twice already.
He plays a lousy 22-23 minutes a game. His defensive analytics suck and scream he's in a role he's not capable of.?????? what
so you're saying teams wouldn't want a 22-23 min (minimum) dman at 4.9M for 2+ years? and possibly retained for an even lower cap hit? this is a negative and not a positive?
So no... I don't think teams see him as a guy they'd want to play 22 minutes a game. He plays that much for the Habs because the Habs defense is young and mostly terrible. Will they get better, probably, but today... they aren't very good.
If the Habs retained on Matheson's contract, I'd be very surprised. That's 2.3+ years of retention today. I doubt your GM is offering to retain. I doubt your GM is even talking to anyone on Matheson. He's not at all the kind of defender teams try to acquire for a playoff run.
He's the kind of guy you'd acquire if you had LTIR slot open and some future cap space to accommodate his contract as well as a contract with term to send the other way.
Very very small group of buyers fit that narrative.
that's a myth, Matheson isn't a terrible defensively, if he was terrible defensively he wouldn't be playing 25 minutes a night with 45% ozone/55% dzone starts. obviously i won't say he's good as well but he's definitely average to above average, his playstyle = he always has the puck and tries to make things happen, yes that'll lead to more turnovers than usual but it also leads to more opportunities
again this always comes from a bunch of people who haven't seen him play and just look at a bunch of advanced stats, no shit he won't have great advanced stats when he's playing on a bottom end team and he's the most played player on the team vs the toughest competition
Doughty also had bad advanced stats seasons as well as great ones, when L.A had great puck possession teams he had great adv stats, when they didn't he had bad numbers
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Exactly. Habs fans simply won't allow this obvious truth to enter their brains.
Their brains have a singular focus. Give us a 1st round pick.
Matheson plays that much because most the Habs defenders suck defensively.
Guhle: sucks defensively
Jayden Struble: sucks defensively
David Savard: really sucks defensively
Justin Barron: not good defensively
And most importantly. Mike Matheson: sucks defensively.
Skater | HockeyStatCards.com
I know Habs fans hate analytics because Maths, but most GMs do consider them.
buddy i knew about advanced stats before you even watched hockey, that's baby league stuff
once you know what you're talking about you'll learn to combine advanced stats with context (for context you actually need to watch the game/the players tho)
fyi Matheson's career ozone starts are about 45%, that's a bit of context for you, in no world would a "terrible defensive player" average 45% ozone starts on various different teams (and we're not talking about 1-2 season, that's 8 seasons)
that would essentially mean that various NHL coaches understand less about the game than HFers, that's what being delusional actually looks like
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Gurglesons
Registered User
Listen. I defended Matheson a ton prior, during and after his trade to PIT. He is a solid player.
Matheson overall is a player that can be a good #4/5 for a contending team in sheltered minutes. He is one of the best athletes in the league.
His metrics overall paint a much more positive image than his reputation. But he is bar none one of the stupidest players I have ever seen playing hockey.
He is not a skill set contenders typically are looking to add and if he was on a short term deal I think you’d see a very similar career to Ghost Bear.
Matheson overall is a player that can be a good #4/5 for a contending team in sheltered minutes. He is one of the best athletes in the league.
His metrics overall paint a much more positive image than his reputation. But he is bar none one of the stupidest players I have ever seen playing hockey.
He is not a skill set contenders typically are looking to add and if he was on a short term deal I think you’d see a very similar career to Ghost Bear.
Bouboumaster
Registered User
- Jul 4, 2014
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You're 100% wrong
But either way it doesn't matter: Hughes ain't trading him this year (at least)
drktmplr12
Registered User
Montreal doesn't have a choice and you know this. You don't have better options to play for Dzone draws. Matheson gets the deployment and minutes he gets with the Habs because you have one of the youngest, least experienced and worst defenses in the NHL.
What is your coach going to do instead? Start Barron and Guhle in the Dzone a bunch? He'll do the best he can with the team he's given. The Habs sit in 15th place in the eastern conference right now. The Habs are surprisingly terrible. This doesn't make Matheson more valuable league wide, everyone knows his stats are affected by his huge ice time, lousy roster, young and struggling teammates. He's going to rack up a lot of points, a lot of turnovers, a lot of shots, a lot of -'s, a lot of ice time. He's got one of the worst expended goals for in the NHL as a result. This is an obvious outcome of his deployment in a role he's not good enough for but the best on the current roster to be thrown out there. But that doesn't mean he is doing well with the role and minutes. He's not. He's getting caved in.
And his ice time certainly doesn't mean he's a top pair guy. It just means he is a top pair guy on one of the league's worst teams with one of the leagues worst defenses.
He's a stop gap player. That is exactly what Matheson is. What he's being paid to be. A top pair guy on an awful team. How the heck does that translate to having a lot of value to a playoff club that will be concerned not with the points he'll put up but with how he'll handle the Vegas dump and chase forecheck game in round 1 of the playoffs in overtime.
Even you Habs fans admit Matheson struggles with turnovers and bad decision making. Is that the kind of defender playoff teams want? Remember... playoff teams have several better defenders than Matheson. So they don't need his PP skills. They are going to be much more focused on what loses playoff games. Turnovers and Dzone mistakes or shortcomings.
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I'm not 100% wrong because you just said what I've been saying all along.
"Hughes ain't trading him this year (at least)". You're right. We agree. Matheson isn't getting traded this season.
One reason he's not getting traded is that no GM is calling Hughes about acquiring him this year either.
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John Mandalorian
2022 Avs: The First Dance
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He would be the perfect fit for a team that lacks a PMD but has a couple of minute eating D that can take the thoughest match-ups.
And yes he is absolutely worth a 1st rounder+. Not sure on what planet some people live. A 60 pts D-man is worth that even if he was the worst defensively.
And yes he is absolutely worth a 1st rounder+. Not sure on what planet some people live. A 60 pts D-man is worth that even if he was the worst defensively.
ole ole
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- Oct 7, 2017
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The poster your replying too claimed he's only seen Matheson 3 times this season and all 3 games were against the Pens. I get we can all disregard the other 53 games he has played this season. Imagine that.
BoneHutson
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- Mar 26, 2023
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Yeah, every teams in the playoffs have multiple top 10 offensive dmen (because thats what Matheson is this year)
ElPrimeTime
Registered User
I'm sure the Predators would disagree with you whilst trying to unload Barrie.
Bouboumaster
Registered User
- Jul 4, 2014
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You're 100% wrong still
Hughes is easily getting a 1st + for Matheson if he was looking to Trade him
Barrie (along with a 1st) was traded for Ekholm.
So a PMD will always have value especially when his contract is cheap.
John Mandalorian
2022 Avs: The First Dance
- Nov 29, 2018
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The Avs are top 5 in scoring in spite of having no 2C to speak of. Meanwhile, they have a goalie who's really struggling.
Great suggestion.
