Mike Colligan: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik

[MtlPenFan]

What exactly are you suggesting, that we should keep Orpik to be in that reserved role for our youth? Because we have more youth than available spots on D...THAT's the problem.

We already have Scuderi and Martin as the caretakers, but Maatta, Bortuzzo and Despres need to play...and Harrington and Pouliot are coming...not to mention the others like Dumoulin and Samuelsson and there's even more beyond that.

It's a numbers game, pure and simple. I'd rather weed out from the bottom rather than the top.

Exactly.

The second I see vets making rookie mistakes is the second I start looking to get rid of them.

I'll deal with young guys making young guy mistakes, because they have room to improve and have the pedigree to do exactly that.

And in case anyone hasn't noticed, hoarding vets at deadline time every spring has amounted to nothing but failure.

 

[Gurglesons]

What exactly are you suggesting, that we should keep Orpik to be in that reserved role for our youth? Because we have more youth than available spots on D...THAT's the problem.

We already have Scuderi and Martin as the caretakers, but Maatta, Bortuzzo and Despres need to play...and Harrington and Pouliot are coming...not to mention the others like Dumoulin and Samuelsson and there's even more beyond that.

It's a numbers game, pure and simple. I'd rather weed out from the bottom rather than the top.

I say we keep Orpik in his position this year. Its a salary cap strapped year and we can do little with our roster without giving up valuables. I'd trade Nisky for a Top 9 forward to fill in on our bottom six or second line if needed.

I would not resign Orpik or Niskanen next year and go with a defensive core of..

Letang - Scuderi
Martin - ?
Maatta - ?

Question marks can be filled in with Despres / Bortuzzo / Harrington / Dumoulin etc.

 

[Gurglesons]

Exactly.

The second I see vets making rookie mistakes is the second I start looking to get rid of them.

I'll deal with young guys making young guy mistakes, because they have room to improve and have the pedigree to do exactly that.

And in case anyone hasn't noticed, hoarding vets at deadline time every spring has amounted to nothing but failure.

So, you would've gotten rid of Gonchar in his first two seasons because he sucked. You would've gotten rid of Martin for his second seasons because he sucked.

Everyone makes a mistake. A veteran like Paul Martin or Kris Letang who has played the game for over 6+years will be more inclined to be able to adjust towards bad play rather than getting in a rut and not being able to handle the situation they've been put in like a Maatta or Bortuzzo.

 

[MtlPenFan]

So, you would've gotten rid of Gonchar in his first two seasons because he sucked. You would've gotten rid of Martin for his second seasons because he sucked.

Everyone makes a mistake. A veteran like Paul Martin or Kris Letang who has played the game for over 6+years will be more inclined to be able to adjust towards bad play rather than getting in a rut and not being able to handle the situation they've been put in like a Maatta or Bortuzzo.

I see this is going to take a while...

Gonchar was awful, but so was the rest of the team coming out of the lockout. They weren't in a position to "win now". It's not a coincidence that Gonchar got better as the rest of the team improved.

I wanted Martin gone, but by all accounts from Jersey fans, it was an aberration that could take a LOT of factors into consideration, including changing teams, systems, etc... Him coming back strong the following year was proof of that.

The difference in Orpik is that he's been in a steady decline for a few years now. He hasn't switched teams or systems, but is simply showing the signs of a guy who never had a high IQ to begin with, but could mask deficiencies by being physical and a VERY underrated skater. Now that his body is starting to fail him, as well as his rep taking a hit after the Thornton incident, his deficiencies are starting to show. it's not like he's suddenly going to go back to his '09 form, because NOTHING he's done lately tells us that he's going to. It's a simple case of "He is what he is."

Let's add that to how poor he is in his transition game, as well as the black hole he is on offense once the Pens have an offensive cycle going, and I question what his purpose is at all. Hell, he's not even hitting anyone anymore, which was the one useful thing he did.

 

[Gurglesons]

I see this is going to take a while...

Gonchar was awful, but so was the rest of the team coming out of the lockout. They weren't in a position to "win now". It's not a coincidence that Gonchar got better as the rest of the team improved.

I wanted Martin gone, but by all accounts from Jersey fans, it was an aberration that could take a LOT of factors into consideration, including changing teams, systems, etc... Him coming back strong the following year was proof of that.

The difference in Orpik is that he's been in a steady decline for a few years now. He hasn't switched teams or systems, but is simply showing the signs of a guy who never had a high IQ to begin with, but could mask deficiencies by being physical and a VERY underrated skater. Now that his body is starting to fail him, as well as his rep taking a hit after the Thornton incident, his deficiencies are starting to show. it's not like he's suddenly going to go back to his '09 form, because NOTHING he's done lately tells us that he's going to. It's a simple case of "He is what he is."

Let's add that to how poor he is in his transition game, as well as the black hole he is on offense once the Pens have an offensive cycle going, and I question what his purpose is at all. Hell, he's not even hitting anyone anymore, which was the one useful thing he did.

He played well last playoffs, if he can rise to that level in the playoffs this year he could be a more valuable assest than a Maatta or Despres who aren't going to knock out a Loui Erikkson level player.

Next year I want nothing to do with him, but with what we would get back in a trade I think it would
be stupid to trade him. Plus, if we do trade him its going to be to a
contender.

 

[MtlPenFan]

He played well last playoffs, if he can rise to that level in the playoffs this year he could be a more valuable assest than a Maatta or Despres who aren't going to knock out a Loui Erikkson level player.

Next year I want nothing to do with him, but with what we would get back in a trade I think it would
be stupid to trade him. Plus, if we do trade him its going to be to a
contender.

Yeah, I loved the way he he checked Bergeron's stick in game 3 in OT. It was almost as if he was shocked that Bergeron was allowed to use his stick on the puck.

 

[KIRK]

I say we keep Orpik in his position this year. Its a salary cap strapped year and we can do little with our roster without giving up valuables. I'd trade Nisky for a Top 9 forward to fill in on our bottom six or second line if needed.

I would not resign Orpik or Niskanen next year and go with a defensive core of..

Letang - Scuderi
Martin - ?
Maatta - ?

Question marks can be filled in with Despres / Bortuzzo / Harrington / Dumoulin etc.

Based on Letang staying, I'll take Scuds-Letang, Despres-Martin RIGHT NOW, not the offseason.

Orpik will be good for a 2/3 tweener along the lines of Kulemin or McGinn. So, it's addition by subtraction and addition by addition.

As for the third pairing, unless Niskanen brings in a 1st or similar caliber return, I keep him and pair him with Maatta. If he does, then Maatta-Bortuzzo.

It's not as if this wasn't obvious 3 months ago.

Yeah, I loved the way he he checked Bergeron's stick in game 3 in OT. It was almost as if he was shocked that Bergeron was allowed to use his stick on the puck.

Oh pawnage.

 

[Ogrezilla]

It has to do with the money and contract. More money, more icetime. If Orpik would get the same as Bortuzzo, it would be Orpik who sits.

I completely agree that his salary and seniority are the main reasons he gets the minutes he does. Its a terrible way to run a team.

 

[JTG]

I am sort of interested in knowing about Brooks' hernia situation. Is it gone completely? Is he feeling some lingering pain?

 

[Ugene Magic]

I am sort of interested in knowing about Brooks' hernia situation. Is it gone completely? Is he feeling some lingering pain?

He had back to back off season surgeries first on his left then on his right the following off season. Not much out there on his status from them other than it was 6 to 8 weeks of recovery time for each.

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2011/7/20/2285327/brooks-orpik-injury-surgery-hernia-pittsburgh-penguins