Mid-Summer List; What teams will make a run this season?

[OMG67]

I always believe that some teams can and do overcome it because they are just a mature group that is full of winners who naturally know what it takes. But when things get tough, experience is not going to ever hurt you. It can help and be the thing that puts you over the top.

I use 2017 for Erie as an example. The previous 3 years of playoff runs is why they came back in game 7 vs London. They flipped a switched after the 1st period and were determined to find a way and knew how to dig deep. Then in round 3, when they needed to win..they showed up. Same can’t be said for OS that series (who had much less experience).
I can confirm that experience was crucial for them. Sometimes when you lose deep in the playoffs, it actually teaches you a bit of how to win. You see how the other team does it and you can learn. The players in Erie all referred to their experience when things got tough.

Also, their 3 trades that year.. Foegele/Cirelli and Murdaca. Why? Previous 3 years they lacked some grit and offensive/defensive depth deeper in the playoffs. So they went out and got the best 2 way forwards available. They also had goalie issues so they went and got a capable backup which was critical to their run. Even their GM learned from experience..

Conversely, ottawa won the first two games at home in the Final this year and folded like a cheap tent from Game 3 on. It's possible to point to Ottawa's relative lack of experience roster wide as a reason why they were unable to switch gears and bounce back.

DiPietro went down to injury. That left Mak as the only guy to really lean on for experience. None of their D-men played any real meaningful games leading up to the playoffs. Even their forward group was devoid of a lot of experience.

 

[NOA]

Conversely, ottawa won the first two games at home in the Final this year and folded like a cheap tent from Game 3 on. It's possible to point to Ottawa's relative lack of experience roster wide as a reason why they were unable to switch gears and bounce back.

DiPietro went down to injury. That left Mak as the only guy to really lean on for experience. None of their D-men played any real meaningful games leading up to the playoffs. Even their forward group was devoid of a lot of experience.

The injury to DiPietro was significant and I don’t know why people (not saying you) downplay that. Even just mentally for the team to deal with is a lot. They didn’t trade for him for nothing..

but you just referenced their overall lack of experience.. so were they actually an experienced team? Not really

Most teams aren’t experienced in the OHL because of the junior cycle. But 2017 Erie was, 2015 Oshawa was. Like I said, I don’t think experience ever will hurt you. Teams don’t lose from too much experience. Conversely they might lose or not handle adversity well (like Ottawa last year) if they lack it.

Experience is all just a learned skill of how to win in the playoffs or how to handle adversity. But some guys (or teams) are just natural with it. Other guys (or teams) need to actually go through some learning to see what it takes, and it benefits them. Whereas other guys (or teams) don’t actually take their experience (good or bad) and learn from it, so it doesn’t benefit them.

I firmly believe that Strome was devastated by 2015 and 2016. So in 2017 he was determined after being sent back down to Erie to overcome it. He looked in the mirror and worked on things and as the captain of the team took responsibility. That playoff run in 2017 for him was his best, and I’m not talking statistically but more how he played and carried himself. He used his body, sold out to play defense, played through injury. He didn’t do that previously. Prime example of someone who learned from past experience and saw what it took from other teams. The team all followed

 

[sirius67fan]

The injury to DiPietro was significant and I don’t know why people (not saying you) downplay that. Even just mentally for the team to deal with is a lot. They didn’t trade for him for nothing..

but you just referenced their overall lack of experience.. so were they actually an experienced team? Not really

Most teams aren’t experienced in the OHL because of the junior cycle. But 2017 Erie was, 2015 Oshawa was. Like I said, I don’t think experience ever will hurt you. Teams don’t lose from too much experience. Conversely they might lose or not handle adversity well (like Ottawa last year) if they lack it.

Experience is all just a learned skill of how to win in the playoffs or how to handle adversity. But some guys (or teams) are just natural with it. Other guys (or teams) need to actually go through some learning to see what it takes, and it benefits them. Whereas other guys (or teams) don’t actually take their experience (good or bad) and learn from it, so it doesn’t benefit them.

I firmly believe that Strome was devastated by 2015 and 2016. So in 2017 he was determined after being sent back down to Erie to overcome it. He looked in the mirror and worked on things and as the captain of the team took responsibility. That playoff run in 2017 for him was his best, and I’m not talking statistically but more how he played and carried himself. He used his body, sold out to play defense, played through injury. He didn’t do that previously. Prime example of someone who learned from past experience and saw what it took from other teams. The team all followed

Trust me Ottersguy I've thought a lot about Dipietro's injury. A big what if... I certainly don't think Andree cost us the series and lets face it Guelph had a hell of a team and deserved the series. But I can't help but wonder if Michael would have made a difference as at that point he's a better goaltender than Andree. One thing I noticed was when he went down Ottawa played differenty. They seemed to sit back a bit and did not skate like the first 2 games which played in Guelph's hands. They seem to lose their "elan". Now maybe this was due to Guelph stepping up their game but we will never know. I wish we had lost with Dipietro as then I would have no lingering doubt as to who was the best team.

 

[OMG67]

Trust me Ottersguy I've thought a lot about Dipietro's injury. A big what if... I certainly don't think Andree cost us the series and lets face it Guelph had a hell of a team and deserved the series. But I can't help but wonder if Michael would have made a difference as at that point he's a better goaltender than Andree. One thing I noticed was when he went down Ottawa played differenty. They seemed to sit back a bit and did not skate like the first 2 games which played in Guelph's hands. They seem to lose their "elan". Now maybe this was due to Guelph stepping up their game but we will never know. I wish we had lost with Dipietro as then I would have no lingering doubt as to who was the best team.

It is really tough to say what the deal really would have been. Andree played really well in game one and two. As you said, he didn't cost us the series but he certainly didn't help in any way. He mostly made all the saves he should have.

I know this is revisionist commenting but I do feel we lacked experience. I think Guelph went out there and really made impactful deals bringing in three Team Canada players as well as the D-Man that was considered by many to be a top 3 guy in Durzi. When they were down 2-0, they didn't fold. Heck, they came back from multiple deficits in that playoff. It is quite clear it wasn't simply talent on their end. If it was talent alone, they would not have been down in those series. It was experience and knowing and believing in their ability.

You aren't always going to play your best. Sometimes you play poorly. It is a fact of life. However, the more experienced players are going to help pull everyone up.

Guys like Zenon Konopka were able to elevate teams. Even Joe Talbot had that in him. Lance Galbraith. These aren't guys that were uber skilled but they had the ability to elevate their game to the level necessary when it needed to be done. There's a brick wall on the ice? No worries, they pull out the sledge hammers and knock it down. We didn't have one single player on that Ottawa team last year that fit that bill. And we don't have that player next year either.

Will Ottawa contend? Sure. They are too talented to not contend. Will they win? No. They don't have the elements that make a difference. Can they acquire some of those elements? Probably. But if a team like Sudbury makes moves, it will be interesting because Byfield was tough to stop as a 16 year old. He's going to be really tough to stop as a 17 year old.

 

[HockeyPops]

I see the Soo this season as a team that hopes to slide into home ice advantage. Not a contender, but possibly a spoiler. It will be tough though as the West is shaping up to be the toughest division by far this year.

If, however, they manage to land one of their NTDP prospects then all bets are off and they may push for more.

 

[OHL4Life]

It is really tough to say what the deal really would have been. Andree played really well in game one and two. As you said, he didn't cost us the series but he certainly didn't help in any way. He mostly made all the saves he should have.

I know this is revisionist commenting but I do feel we lacked experience. I think Guelph went out there and really made impactful deals bringing in three Team Canada players as well as the D-Man that was considered by many to be a top 3 guy in Durzi. When they were down 2-0, they didn't fold. Heck, they came back from multiple deficits in that playoff. It is quite clear it wasn't simply talent on their end. If it was talent alone, they would not have been down in those series. It was experience and knowing and believing in their ability.

You aren't always going to play your best. Sometimes you play poorly. It is a fact of life. However, the more experienced players are going to help pull everyone up.

Guys like Zenon Konopka were able to elevate teams. Even Joe Talbot had that in him. Lance Galbraith. These aren't guys that were uber skilled but they had the ability to elevate their game to the level necessary when it needed to be done. There's a brick wall on the ice? No worries, they pull out the sledge hammers and knock it down. We didn't have one single player on that Ottawa team last year that fit that bill. And we don't have that player next year either.

Will Ottawa contend? Sure. They are too talented to not contend. Will they win? No. They don't have the elements that make a difference. Can they acquire some of those elements? Probably. But if a team like Sudbury makes moves, it will be interesting because Byfield was tough to stop as a 16 year old. He's going to be really tough to stop as a 17 year old.

i still dont get why ottawa didnt pay to get the owen sound kids. flip them to ottawa and you guys have rings

 

[PuckStop75]

i still dont get why ottawa didnt pay to get the owen sound kids. flip them to ottawa and you guys have rings

Ottawa got locked into a very bad position of believing they played a system and had enough skill to win, they went after experience who would fit into their system versus getting the best players available. I have to believe the position of not trading roster players while loyal, really limited the options, and probably shouldn't have been stated publicly.

 

[NOA]

Ottawa got locked into a very bad position of believing they played a system and had enough skill to win, they went after experience who would fit into their system versus getting the best players available. I have to believe the position of not trading roster players while loyal, really limited the options, and probably shouldn't have been stated publicly.

Getting those high end players will indeed cost a team younger roster players. I would imagine that saying that in the public didn’t help but either way, having that mindset limited them. It was a great idea to fill the OA spots but a poor idea to not add 1/2 top talent players

 

[OMG67]

Getting those high end players will indeed cost a team younger roster players. I would imagine that saying that in the public didn’t help but either way, having that mindset limited them. It was a great idea to fill the OA spots but a poor idea to not add 1/2 top talent players

As an Ottawa fan, there are a couple ways to look at it.

First, did they acquire the 'right' OA's. I say no but others said yes. I didn't have an issue with Maksimovich BUT Saigeon cost less and would have been more impactful in my opinion. Also, I think we needed a puck moving OA D-man instead of Chiodo but for the price, Chiodo was a good pickup. However, that wasn't enough to win anyway.

Regarding Owen Sound, that was a silly situation. I don't belive Ottawa was even allowed to be in on that deal. I think they demanded to be traded together (suzuki and durzi) and they wanted to stay close. I don't think either of them wanted to go to Ottawa.

Also, I am not too sure Ottawa had anything to trade because of all the desired players no-trade clauses. We had a lot of local kids that wouldn't go. What would a kid like Quinn Yule add as an impact on a trade? Not much. Maybe Tolani would have waived but that would be speculative at best.

Ottawa had draft picks and that's what they leveraged. If Owen Sound would have taken draft picks, I am pretty sure they would have gottena more valuable overall packed in return because none of the players they got are going to be anything special considering they traded arguably the best forward and D-man available at the deadline.

 

[Snippit]

London looks pretty stacked at forward but the D is a bunch of question marks outside of Regula.

Will be interesting to see what they do.

 

[GEO1050101]

OMG67 as was stated many times last spring, neither Suzuki nor Durzi requested to be traded together. Ottawa just didn't have enough to offer, plain and simple.

 

[OMG67]

OMG67 as was stated many times last spring, neither Suzuki nor Durzi requested to be traded together. Ottawa just didn't have enough to offer, plain and simple.

Ottawa had much more to offer than OS received. Don’t kid yourself. That package was trash.

The 67’s didn’t “want” to offer what OS wanted. There is a big difference between not having enough and choosing not to offer.

All I know is there were rumours that they wanted to go together well before the trade and they ended up going together. What did they say about ducks?

 

[AttackSound]

Ottawa had much more to offer than OS received. Don’t kid yourself. That package was trash.

The 67’s didn’t “want” to offer what OS wanted. There is a big difference between not having enough and choosing not to offer.

All I know is there were rumours that they wanted to go together well before the trade and they ended up going together. What did they say about ducks?

Whether or not they were true rumors really is water under the bridge now.

Could the deal with Ottawa have been different then what Guelph gave up possibly but that really doesn't matter now. If a deal with the 67's would've been in the works and both sides could come to an agreement I couldn't see both clubs not pulling the trigger on a deal.

However the other side to the equation which would be the other possibility to explore was whether or not Ottawa had any cards left to be able to make a splash for OS top guys or just didn't want to give up a certain player that OS was after. As you pointed out sometimes deals fall through just simply because the trading partner either doesn't want to move a piece or the return wasn't what one or both sides were after.

Not the first time a deal fell through in this league because returns weren't to what a team wanted.

 

[OMG67]

Whether or not they were true rumors really is water under the bridge now.

Could the deal with Ottawa have been different then what Guelph gave up possibly but that really doesn't matter now. If a deal with the 67's would've been in the works and both sides could come to an agreement I couldn't see both clubs not pulling the trigger on a deal.

However the other side to the equation which would be the other possibility to explore was whether or not Ottawa had any cards left to be able to make a splash for OS top guys or just didn't want to give up a certain player that OS was after. As you pointed out sometimes deals fall through just simply because the trading partner either doesn't want to move a piece or the return wasn't what one or both sides were after.

Not the first time a deal fell through in this league because returns weren't to what a team wanted.

I was just pointing out the 67’s, if they were inclined to do so, had many more chips left to trade than Guelph. Ottawa had only traded draft picks and unsigned Americans.

The 67’s were not interested, at all, in trading players on the roster. They used their draft picks. Had they been willing to part with players, guys like Tolnai, Quinn, Peric, and Yule were all desirable players and I personally feel any of the first three players are better than any single piece Guelph gave up in that deal.

 

[AttackSound]

I was just pointing out the 67’s, if they were inclined to do so, had many more chips left to trade than Guelph. Ottawa had only traded draft picks and unsigned Americans.

The 67’s were not interested, at all, in trading players on the roster. They used their draft picks. Had they been willing to part with players, guys like Tolnai, Quinn, Peric, and Yule were all desirable players and I personally feel any of the first three players are better than any single piece Guelph gave up in that deal.

I'm not disagreeing that Ottawa had pieces or not but maybe they weren't inclined to deal a certain player or they were and what they wanted back OS either didn't want to give up or couldn't get the piece Ottawa wanted.

Many times there are 3-way deals that fall apart because trading partner 3 won't trade with partner 1 to give up the asset 2 wants and any combination of that order.

Not to also count that maybe the deal was in place and a player had a NTC in there contract and that could've been from any side of negotiations.

 

[OMG67]

I'm not disagreeing that Ottawa had pieces or not but maybe they weren't inclined to deal a certain player or they were and what they wanted back OS either didn't want to give up or couldn't get the piece Ottawa wanted.

Many times there are 3-way deals that fall apart because trading partner 3 won't trade with partner 1 to give up the asset 2 wants and any combination of that order.

Not to also count that maybe the deal was in place and a player had a NTC in there contract and that could've been from any side of negotiations.

I don’t believe Ottawa and OS ever had meaningful conversations. I be;I’ve Boyd made it clear the 67’s would not trade roster players and OS made it clear they wanted bodies not picks. Any serious conversations ended there. I don’t know that for certain but the 67’s made it very clear publicly they would not trade roster players and they were true to their word.

If OS was interested in draft pick capital, I am sure Ottawa would have been able to give picks that would outweigh the player value OS received. The reality is OS needed skaters back. They couldn’t trade pieces like that without getting real bodies. I think we were all just socked at what the return ended up being. I think OS was playing musical chairs too long and Guelph was able to take advantage. No one can tell me that deal wasn’t a bad deal but at that point, unfortunately, was the best deal OS could manage under the circumstances. To think what Oshawa got for two quality and yet inferior players compared to Durzi and Suzuki is maddening.

 

[HockeyPops]

How about we get back on topic - this coming season. My picks to win each Division:
East: Oshawa
Central: Sudbury
Mid West: London
West: Windsor

Edit: to answer LR8, Windsor is a dark horse pick for sure, but I like their core, they will be a year older, and I suspect the new management will look to make a bit of a splash to supplement. Soo and Sag will both take a small step back, Flint will be good, but maybe not quite good enough to leap into first. I think it will be pretty tight between those 4 teams in the end and you could pick any of them, so why not Windsor?

 

[LR8]

How about we get back on topic - this coming season. My picks to win each Division:
East: Oshawa
Central: Sudbury
Mid West: London
West: Windsor

Windsor? Right now you have Windsor (won maybe 5 of the last 25 games of the season) ahead of Sag, SSM, and even Flint? Why?

 

[Finster8]

West-Saginaw
Mid West-London
East-Petes
Central-Sudbury

 

[Ptbomillsy619]

West. Saginaw
Mid west Kitchener
East ptbo
Central Sudbury

 

[OHL insideout]

OMG67 - YOU ARE DEAD ON WITH THAT ASSESSMENT!

 

[LDN]

Who will be the worst team in the OHL this coming season?

 

[Ptbomillsy619]

Who will be the worst team in the OHL this coming season?

I see Hamilton selling hard this year which will keep them in the basement

 

[Voice from the North]

Who will be the worst team in the OHL this coming season?

Niagara or Guelph

 

[Voice from the North]

How about we get back on topic - this coming season. My picks to win each Division:
East: Oshawa
Central: Sudbury
Mid West: London
West: Windsor

East: Ottawa
Central: Sudbury
Midwest: London
West: Saginaw