Michel Therrien Appreciation Thread

[habsfanatics*]

TML does it with Ontario coaches.

as far as trying goes, you may be right, but hey! I'm a curious man, and these debates (not only the language thing) say a lot about who you're talking to usually... and I need to keep up and practice for the 2 or 3 times a year I'll need to use english

I don't think TML consciously do this, I think it's largely coincidence. Having said that, the habs are unique in every sense of the word, having the ability to speak french is a job requirement, it's one of many things considered, but it's not the reason any particular candidate is hired, it's a specific requirement, no different than being hired by the CRA here in NB, half the base is french, of course you need someone capable of communicating with that sector, it doesn't make them any less qualified for the job.

That's the problem here, many younger genarations equate the habs coaches language with his competence as a coach and automatically assume he's bad. The french Canadian pool of coaches is quite large with plenty of qualified individuals, being able to speak french is a bonus.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I don't think TML consciously do this, I think it's largely coincidence. Having said that, the habs are unique in every sense of the word, having the ability to speak french is a job requirement, it's one of many things considered, but it's not the reason any particular candidate is hired, it's a specific requirement, no different than being hired by the CRA here in NB, half the base is french, of course you need someone capable of communicating with that sector, it doesn't make them any less qualified for the job.

That's the problem here, many younger genarations equate the habs coaches language with his competence as a coach and automatically assume he's bad. The french Canadian pool of coaches is quite large with plenty of qualified individuals, being able to speak french is a bonus.

I dont think it's only the younger ones, I see lots of people my age or older with the same attitude, in both english and french (like the guys at RDS saying we shouldnt be too hard on DD if he doesnt play well cause he's a Quebecois!)...


as for TML, I dunno, possible, but that would be a hell of a coincidence!

 

[RonFournier]

We understand and emphasize (with the xenophobes who have to "protect their culture), however that has zero correlation with bettering the team and increasing the chance of winning a cup, and such a reason defects the top goal from "winning the stanley cup" to "protecting the french legacy and culture". As I said previously, the legacy of the habs is the 24 stanley cup wins, NOT the french culture. When people were talking about Beliveau's legacy, it was his leadership, how he always had time for all of his fans, both english and french, and all the cup's he's won. I'm pretty sure "he's french" isnt part of his legacy, and is not what I remember about Beliveau.

If the top free agent coach does not speak french, the habs will pass him over for someone not as good simply because they speak french. I'm sure some of you will take this as me saying "the best coaches are all english", which is not what I'm saying at all, which is not what any of us are saying.



I'm 31, and have lived in Montreal for 29 years (moved to Calgary over a year ago).

So the 81% Of Quebeckers who are in favor of bill 101 are xenophobes for wanting to preserve their culture and way of life? Must have been a true struggle living 29 years among such racist people. A true Nelson Mandela.

 

[Yep]

Are you implying its an incorrect statement, or you're saying its insulting because its true and you dont like when people call it out?

I hate it when courageous people stand up and call me for what I am, a closet francosupremacist.

You got me. One down, milions to go.

Allez-Allez-Allez-Allez-Allez Montréal!

 

[Yep]

Your favorite team is established in a French market and will cater to it. Deal with it.

It ain't between French and winning. It never been. If you know Quebecers a bit you know we're mostly allergic to losing. We don't support losers, not massively as in Leafland anyway (exhibit one and two : the Expos and the Nordiques).

 

[MasterDecoy]

We understand and emphasize (with the xenophobes who have to "protect their culture), however that has zero correlation with bettering the team and increasing the chance of winning a cup, and such a reason defects the top goal from "winning the stanley cup" to "protecting the french legacy and culture". As I said previously, the legacy of the habs is the 24 stanley cup wins, NOT the french culture. When people were talking about Beliveau's legacy, it was his leadership, how he always had time for all of his fans, both english and french, and all the cup's he's won. I'm pretty sure "he's french" isnt part of his legacy, and is not what I remember about Beliveau.

If the top free agent coach does not speak french, the habs will pass him over for someone not as good simply because they speak french. I'm sure some of you will take this as me saying "the best coaches are all english", which is not what I'm saying at all, which is not what any of us are saying.



I'm 31, and have lived in Montreal for 29 years (moved to Calgary over a year ago).

Xenophobes? Kinda proved my point, thanks

 

[Nynja*]

Are we discussing politics in here now? Mention the word xenophobe, and half the thread gets on the defensive lol.


By the way, in regards to Toronto only hiring Ontario born coaches (Pat Burns was from Quebec btw and coached 4 seasons in Toronto, he is probably one of the more successful coaches Toronto has had in the past 40 years), here are the birth places of all active, and fired, coaches this season:

Bruce Boudreau	Toronto, ON
Dave Tippett		Moosomin, SK
Claude Julien		Blind River, ON
Ted Nolan		Garden River, ON
Bob Hartley		Hawkesbury, ON
Bill Peters			Three Hills, AB
Joel Quenneville	Windsor, ON
Patrick Roy		Quebec City, QC
Todd Richards		Crystal, MN, USA
Lindy Ruff			Warburg, AB
Mike Babcock		Manitouwadge, ON
Dallas Eakins (F)	Dade City, FL, USA
Todd Nelson (I)	Prince Albert, SK
Gerard Gallant		Summerside, PE
Darryl Sutter		Viking, AB
Mike Yeo			Scarborough, ON
Michel Therrien	Montreal, QC
Peter Laviolette	Franklin, MA, USA
Peter DeBoer (F)	Dunnville, ON
Jack Capuano		Cranston, RI, USA
Alain Vigneault		Quebec City, QC
Paul MacLean (F)	Grostenquin, FRA
Dave Cameron		Charlottetown, PE
Craig Berube		Calahoo, AB
Mike Johnston		Dartmouth, NS
Todd McLellan		Melville, SK
Ken Hitchcock		Edmonton, AB
Jon Cooper		Prince George, BC
Randy Carlyle		Sudbury, ON
Willie Desjardins	Climax, SK
Barry Trotz		Dauphin, MB
Paul Maurice		Sault Ste Marie, ON

10 from ON (one is in Toronto, but none of the other 9 are in Ottawa)
5 from AB (none are coaching in AB)
4 from SK
4 Americans (3 of 4 are coaching American teams, but you know 23 out of 30 are American, but one was in Edmonton)
3 from QC (the other two are in NYC and Colorado, which used to be Quebec, OMG)
2 from PEI
1 from NS
1 from BC (not coaching the Canucks)
1 from MB (not coaching the Jets)
1 from France

Theres just a lot of coaches coming out of Ontario. It's a happy coincidence

 

[ECWHSWI]

Are we discussing politics in here now? Mention the word xenophobe, and half the thread gets on the defensive lol.


By the way, in regards to Toronto only hiring Ontario born coaches (Pat Burns was from Quebec btw and coached 4 seasons in Toronto, he is probably one of the more successful coaches Toronto has had in the past 40 years), here are the birth places of all active, and fired, coaches this season:

Bruce Boudreau	Toronto, ON
Dave Tippett		Moosomin, SK
Claude Julien		Blind River, ON
Ted Nolan		Garden River, ON
Bob Hartley		Hawkesbury, ON
Bill Peters			Three Hills, AB
Joel Quenneville	Windsor, ON
Patrick Roy		Quebec City, QC
Todd Richards		Crystal, MN, USA
Lindy Ruff			Warburg, AB
Mike Babcock		Manitouwadge, ON
Dallas Eakins (F)	Dade City, FL, USA
Todd Nelson (I)	Prince Albert, SK
Gerard Gallant		Summerside, PE
Darryl Sutter		Viking, AB
Mike Yeo			Scarborough, ON
Michel Therrien	Montreal, QC
Peter Laviolette	Franklin, MA, USA
Peter DeBoer (F)	Dunnville, ON
Jack Capuano		Cranston, RI, USA
Alain Vigneault		Quebec City, QC
Paul MacLean (F)	Grostenquin, FRA
Dave Cameron		Charlottetown, PE
Craig Berube		Calahoo, AB
Mike Johnston		Dartmouth, NS
Todd McLellan		Melville, SK
Ken Hitchcock		Edmonton, AB
Jon Cooper		Prince George, BC
Randy Carlyle		Sudbury, ON
Willie Desjardins	Climax, SK
Barry Trotz		Dauphin, MB
Paul Maurice		Sault Ste Marie, ON

10 from ON (one is in Toronto, but none of the other 9 are in Ottawa)
5 from AB (none are coaching in AB)
4 from SK
4 Americans (3 of 4 are coaching American teams, but you know 23 out of 30 are American, but one was in Edmonton)
3 from QC (the other two are in NYC and Colorado, which used to be Quebec, OMG)
2 from PEI
1 from NS
1 from BC (not coaching the Canucks)
1 from MB (not coaching the Jets)
1 from France

Theres just a lot of coaches coming out of Ontario. It's a happy coincidence

fine, Julien, Martin, Cunneyworth are not Québécois, you can stop whining now.

 

[Nynja*]

fine, Julien, Martin, Cunneyworth are not Québécois

Doesnt it feel good to not have to lie anymore.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Doesnt it feel good to not have to lie anymore.

you tell me.

 

[Nynja*]

you tell me.

I did a couple posts ago, go look it up

 

[peate]

A little off topic but is anyone watching the coaches on RDS?

They came up with some pretty good stories, the one about the fine was hilarious.

 

[RonFournier]

Are we discussing politics in here now? Mention the word xenophobe, and half the thread gets on the defensive lol.

If the mods don't wanna do their job and erase your political posts I don't see why we could't reply to your bigotry. At least now we have the confirmation that obsessional Therrien haters like yourself are motivated by contempt for Quebec's distinct society and fundamentally french culture.

 

[Yep]

Are we discussing politics in here now? Mention the word xenophobe, and half the thread gets on the defensive lol.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Anyone watch the interview/dinner with Demers, Tremblay, Vigneault and Therrien ?

Was interesting.

 

[Kimota]

Anyone watch the interview/dinner with Demers, Tremblay, Vigneault and Therrien ?

Was interesting.

It was amazing. They needed another hour. I have a new found respect for MT and AV after this.

Also, BTW, he cannot say "respect" in french either! He said it 3 times and never used the "T".

 

[Lshap]

If the mods don't wanna do their job and erase your political posts I don't see why we could't reply to your bigotry. At least now we have the confirmation that obsessional Therrien haters like yourself are motivated by contempt for Quebec's distinct society and fundamentally french culture.

As a mod, this is a tricky thread. On the one hand, most of the discussion is constructive and civil, with good arguments for and against adding cultural weight to Habs hirings. On the other hand, it's occasionally sunk to name-calling and stereotyping.

I've left stuff stand that normally would be edited or infracted, because I see the potential for a 'teachable moment'. Anglos have been called 'colonists', francos have been called 'xenophobes', yet those words remain unedited because they're the typical extreme crap we've been hearing for 40 years. They're dumb insults, because they strain to make an exception seem like the rule. If the best the extremists can do is launch stale insults from 1980, there's room to update the old cliches and reach a higher understanding amongst ourselves on this board. The user who called anglos 'colonists' admitted he went overboard; I think the users who called francophones 'xenophobes' knows it's a sweeping generality that doesn't apply here. Most important, get you guys out of your dark basements and face to face in a bar, and you'd remember how much friendlier and more accommodating almost all Quebecers are in real life, compared to the dark caricatures they become on message boards.

The best argument I've read in this thread is this entire 'cultural' debate isn't really about culture at all. It's a basic ability to speak french, whether through mother-tongue or through a few french lessons. Remove loaded phrases like "Ethnicity" and "Hiring limits", and what we have is a franco coach speaking french or an english coach learning some french. And in terms of the job, it all comes down to a few post-game phrases. Seems reasonable.

 

[DAChampion]

The reason we have political posts in this thread is that it's a political topic.

If were discussing the salary cap we might be mentioning the Canadian dollar, same principle.

 

[Kojo]

I don't want to get too political but how would you Anglos feel if our head-coach only answered in french to french journalists? Moving on.

I think he's a very decent coach, one of the most underrated in the league, some fans from other teams have said this.

I think that if there had been a better candidate he would not have been hired. Some of you put too much emphasis on the fact that he's franco. He's actually a great coach who turned this team around with the help of GM Bergy, Subban, Price and veterans like Markov and Plekanec.

This team has a great core but Timmins had his work cut out since we never had a proper rebuilt like past cup winners such as the Hawks, the Kings, the Pens, etc.

All in all I'm very satisfied with what MT has done with the mediocre team we have.

 

[FuzzyWuzzy]

So the 81% Of Quebeckers who are in favor of bill 101 are xenophobes for wanting to preserve their culture and way of life? Must have been a true struggle living 29 years among such racist people. A true Nelson Mandela.

The worst part is that these people are themselves being massive racists & xenophobes by calling a whole population "xenophobes" based on nothing but their misled impressions and hatred of that population's difference.

And they dont even realize that.

 

[Nynja*]

The worst part is that these people are themselves being massive racists & xenophobes by calling a whole population "xenophobes" based on nothing but their misled impressions and hatred of that population's difference.

And they dont even realize that.

Well this is obviously directed at me, so I guess were still discussing politics


xen·o·phobe (zĕn′ə-fōb′, zē′nə-)
n.
A person who is fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or of people from different countries or cultures.
xen′o·pho′bi·a n.
xen′o·pho′bic adj.
xenophobia (ˌzɛnəˈfəʊbɪə)
n
1. (Psychology) hatred or fear of foreigners or strangers or of their politics or culture
ˌxenoˈphobic adj

This sounds EXACTLY like the stuff I posted before

I think that if there had been a better candidate he would not have been hired. Some of you put too much emphasis on the fact that he's franco.

No one in here has bashed Therrien for being french. No one in here has said "Therrien is a garbage coach cause he's french". This whole language thing stems from the fact that the habs management have explicitly stated that they will never hire a coach who cant speak french, no matter what. So now when habs fans, like me, who care about the 25th stanley cup and not language politics, get upset over such a statement being made, certain people with a possible victim complex believe it to be over language politics.

"Therrien has proven to be a mediocre coach whos faults are being covered up due to Carey Price, if only the habs didnt have a language restriction on who their coach is, we might have replacement options"
is not
"all french coaches are bad"

There are coaches available right now...just not available to us. Which french speaking coaches are jobless right now? I cant really think of any, can you?

We've established there are many great coaches in the NHL who speak french, some of them even from quebec. But imposing a language restriction is kinda ridiculous, considering coaches never really say anything new:
X joueur a jouer bien / n'a pas jouer bien | X player played good / bad
L'equipe n'a pas executer la plan | The team didnt execute the game plan
On doit lancer plus de tirs | We need to shoot more
On doit etre plus physique | We need to be more physical
X joueur jouera ce soir | X player will be in the lineup tonight

The only time theres anything different is if theres an injury:
X joueur est blesse au corps / au jambe | X player has an upper body injury / lower body injury

Its the same stuff all the time, and you could give cuecards for the press conferences stating all of these. How often do you hear anything else?

 

[ECWHSWI]

Well this is obviously directed at me, so I guess were still discussing politics


xen·o·phobe (zĕn′ə-fōb′, zē′nə-)
n.
A person who is fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or of people from different countries or cultures.
xen′o·pho′bi·a n.
xen′o·pho′bic adj.
xenophobia (ˌzɛnəˈfəʊbɪə)
n
1. (Psychology) hatred or fear of foreigners or strangers or of their politics or culture
ˌxenoˈphobic adj

This sounds EXACTLY like the stuff I posted before




No one in here has bashed Therrien for being french. No one in here has said "Therrien is a garbage coach cause he's french". This whole language thing stems from the fact that the habs management have explicitly stated that they will never hire a coach who cant speak french, no matter what. So now when habs fans, like me, who care about the 25th stanley cup and not language politics, get upset over such a statement being made, certain people with a possible victim complex believe it to be over language politics.

"Therrien has proven to be a mediocre coach whos faults are being covered up due to Carey Price, if only the habs didnt have a language restriction on who their coach is, we might have replacement options"
is not
"all french coaches are bad"

There are coaches available right now...just not available to us. Which french speaking coaches are jobless right now? I cant really think of any, can you?

We've established there are many great coaches in the NHL who speak french, some of them even from quebec. But imposing a language restriction is kinda ridiculous, considering coaches never really say anything new:
X joueur a jouer bien / n'a pas jouer bien | X player played good / bad
L'equipe n'a pas executer la plan | The team didnt execute the game plan
On doit lancer plus de tirs | We need to shoot more
On doit etre plus physique | We need to be more physical
X joueur jouera ce soir | X player will be in the lineup tonight

The only time theres anything different is if theres an injury:
X joueur est blesse au corps / au jambe | X player has an upper body injury / lower body injury

Its the same stuff all the time, and you could give cuecards for the press conferences stating all of these. How often do you hear anything else?

like who ???


well, DeBoer is available now... I guess.

 

[Nynja*]

like who ???

Names have been posted before, go find them. MacLean is available too, but I dont think he'd want to coach someone who called him a fat bug eyed walrus.
Btw, you really dont have to quote multiple paragraphs of text, and bold the sentence you're replying to. You could, you know, just delete the text you're not responding to.

 

[DAChampion]

How is McLean obviously superior to Therrien?

 

[Deluded Puck]

How is McLean obviously superior to Therrien?

He's not - his reputation came off the back of Craig Anderson playing lights out, just like Roy's 1st year was so miraculous due to Varlamov, and you see similar things with Therrien & Price. Any coach can look great when a goalie is papering over the cracks.

Therrien has some obvious qualities (manages to get players onside, and keep them motivated and they do appear to "buy in"), and some obvious weaknesses, (Very stubborn to make change, treats youngsters harshly in favour of terrible veterans and is mediocre-to-bad at the X's and O's).

My impression is that Bergevin gives him a push in the right direction every now and then, which is fine.

The problem isn't so much the immediate results (show me a coach who is "overacheiving", and I'll show goalie papering over, but the worry that we aren't developing the pieces and the system to be ready for the theoretical cup window starting in 2016.

By then we should have Price, PK and Max still in their primes. Chucky and Gallagher should be entering theirs, Markov will be in his last years and still valuable, Eller etc, and most importantly, Beaulieu & Tinordi should be ready for 2nd pairing duties. minimum.

Is Therrien preparing the team properly for this period? Honestly, I have my doubts.