Micheal Ferland has arrived

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I didn’t say it wasn’t valid I said when you see him longer term like Flames fans have you will get a better appreciation for his true “ability.”

Yet the same doesn't apply to the players you received in the trade? Again, hypocrisy.

 

[Baxterman]

Yup. Hanifin will easily score 50 points and be a true qb PP just like how he scored 50 last year.

Why does he have to be a true PP QB, Hamilton was our PP QB at any point during his time here.

And points are the only thing and Hanifin doesn't have to directly replace Hamilton.

The Flames will hopefully improve from Brodie moving back to the right side with Gio which was a better pairing than Gio/Hamilton and Hanifin having better chemistry with Hamonic than Brodie did.

Also Hanifin is what 21, I know that means he is done improving and stuck as the exact player he is but maybe by some miracle he bucks the trend of players plateauing at 21 and even is able to, gasp, improve.

 

[Baxterman]

Yet the same doesn't apply to the players you received in the trade? Again, hypocrisy.

Who said the same doesn't apply to the players we acquired?

 

[Baxterman]

1) You had a crappy coach that got fired.
2) It's not about making 1 single line better, it's about making the team better which means balancing lines sometimes.
3) Right now, the Canes LW are:
- Ferland
- Foegele (rookie)
- McGinn (3rd/4th liner)
- Zykov (Rookie)
- Martinook (4th liner)

So it's safe to say that on the Canes, Ferland and Foegele deserve to be in the top 6 right now.

We get it though, you don't think he's very good. Time to move along.

What does this have to do with what I have said?

I never commented on where Ferland should or shouldn't fit. I said he doesn't make players on his line better, he needs them to create the offense for him and he has zero offensive skills at all.

If he is the best fit for your top line, great for you.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Why do you feel the need to talk in such absolutes? "Zero offensive skills" is such a hyperbolic descriptor that it makes it hard to take you seriously.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Who said the same doesn't apply to the players we acquired?

You pretty much did when I made the comment about you only seeing them for 2 games and you responded with the post below. You know, you make this way too easy when I can just quote your own posts.

I have seen them play for Carolina as well.

I also know what we gave up. Yes Hamilton is good but Hanifin can replace what he brought and Ferland and Fox are crap so no loss there.

We had a big need for a top 6 F and Lindholm provides that for us. The fact that we added that without hurting out defense is huge.

 

[Baxterman]

You pretty much did when I made the comment about you only seeing them for 2 games and you responded with the post below. You know, you make this way too easy when I can just quote your own posts.

Except when you quote my posts they don't support your argument at all so I guess it is easy when you make up any argument you want rather than deal with what is being discussed.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

This has also been the case with Ferland for the last few seasons until he vanishes without a trace around 20 games in. Might want to wait on this one.

Ferland struggled after he got injured last year. I will give you that. But the key word there is 'injured', not struggled.

Ferland’s not some Simmonds level stud power forward, but he is a pretty good complimentary player who can play up and down the lineup.

Ferland is better than Simmonds at even strength. Simmonds is probably better on the power play, but it's also possible that's only because he's gotten much more opportunity.

I like Ferland and I think the Flames liked him too. The issue is he’s going to be a UFA and the team was worried they couldn’t afford him. They dealt for RFAs so they could keep more salary/ contract control.

If Ferland has a big season he’s going to be in line for a monster contract next year.

I agree with this. I think the Flames knowingly downgraded their top line at ES in the hopes of longevity and a better PP (since Lindholm is a RHS, he is something our PP needed more than Ferland, who is also less effective than Tkachuk in that point shot tipping role and our PP had no other RHS)

That’s exactly what Ferland is. A guy who isn’t driving the offense (as you have said) and who can put points on the board (as the scoresheet says) while doing all the little stuff that you wouldn’t want a Gaudreau or Aho to try doing himself.

I think it's a myth that Ferland doesn't drive offense. He's not Gaudreau, few are, but he was driving offense on that line more than Monahan last year. Watch Gaudreau or Monahan's 2017-18 highlights and you'll see more nifty plays by Ferland than by Monahan. If he played Monahan's "stand in the slot" role on the PP he probably outscores Monahan last year.

im sorry Hamilton is better . Calgary gave up a 50pt pp qb. those don't grow on trees. I know it was only 1 game but the Calgary pp looked horrific without Hamilton. 0 for 7. I don't think hanifin will ever be as good as hamilton

Calgary PP looked horrific with Hamilton last year... and he's not even a PPQB as no coach has ever trusted him to QB a PP. He has only ever played PP as the second D beside guys like Giordano, taking shots as a pure shooter. He's a glorified forward on the PP. The only time our PP was actually dangerous last year was when the top unit was Brodie-Versteeg-Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland. We've upgraded from Ferland to Tkachuk and we have to believe Lindholm is an upgrade on Versteeg. Last step is just getting Brodie or Hanifin in there instead of Giordano and we'll have a solid PP.

Not sure how you could dislike Hamilton's game yet think Hanifin is better. Hamilton doesn't look completely incompetent in his own end for much of the game, and he out produces Hanifin in the offensive end.

I'm not going to bash Hamilton, but I am NOT going to miss his awful, lazy penalties. So far Hanifin has been just as good, maybe even better considering carried Hamonic and Stone, something Hamilton never did successfully when asked to.

 

[The Burdened]

Flyers fan with no vested interest either way, but just what I've observed on here and on CP:

Prior to tarde:
"Fox has a chance to be great! God I hope the Flames can sign him! Fox existing makes up for us giving away a lottery pick for 3rd pairing dman and potentially missing out on Dobson"

After trade
"Fox is crap. Nothing is lost."

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

What does this have to do with what I have said?

I never commented on where Ferland should or shouldn't fit. I said he doesn't make players on his line better, he needs them to create the offense for him and he has zero offensive skills at all.

If he is the best fit for your top line, great for you.

LOL. Again, just too easy when I can quote your own posts.

The concern is that you could get a better player in there and the team could have more success.

I mean I guess if you don't care about having a better team then have at it her but I personally would prefer to have a better team than a weaker team.

You most certainly said where he should or should not fit.

 

[Baxterman]

LOL. Again, just too easy when I can quote your own posts.



You most certainly said where he should or should not fit.

No I didn't.

Which player did I say should be there?

What line did I say he should play on?

 

[Baxterman]

Flyers fan with no vested interest either way, but just what I've observed on here and on CP:

Prior to tarde:
"Fox has a chance to be great! God I hope the Flames can sign him! Fox existing makes up for us giving away a lottery pick for 3rd pairing dman and potentially missing out on Dobson"

After trade
"Fox is crap. Nothing is lost."

I am not sure of you are saying this to me but I never said he had a chance to be great or we should sign him. I have always been down on his skating and especially his defensive IQ. I never thought he would make the NHL before or after the deal.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Flyers fan with no vested interest either way, but just what I've observed on here and on CP:

Prior to tarde:
"Fox has a chance to be great! God I hope the Flames can sign him! Fox existing makes up for us giving away a lottery pick for 3rd pairing dman and potentially missing out on Dobson"

After trade
"Fox is crap. Nothing is lost."

Neither of those positions were had. First of all Hamonic is a 2nd pairing dman, and 11th overall is only a de jure lottery pick - a de facto lottery pick would be #1 or #2 or #3 OA. The Flames wouldn't even want a defenseman (Dobson) with their draft pick, we wanted a forward as between Kylington, Valimaki, Andersson, and yes Fox, we had arguably the best four prospect D in the league. Losing Fox hurts because we lost him simultaneously to an offensive RHD in Hamilton.

But no one has called Fox crap other than one terrible flames fan WWE who doesn't represent our fanbase, he just has a hate-on for skill and wants every player to be a useless plug, except if I like a player, then he admits that he irrationally dislikes that player. Nothing is lost in this trade on the Fox front - because Fox was allegedly NOT GOING TO SIGN IN CALGARY. The Flames tried to sign Fox all summer and couldn't get the deal done.

 

[Snakepit]

Anyway, I'm absolutely thrilled to see Ferland doing so well in Carolina so far. I love the guy. I truly hope he finds the consistency he was lacking in previous years because he's such an easy guy to cheer for

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

@Baxterman is just sour on Ferland because he produced points at a better rate than Monahan at 5v5.

Dude has 23g 45p in his last 80gp, with a lot of time spent in a bottom 6 role and without a ton of PP time.

He's fast, he can hit, he can fight, he can pass, and he can shoot. I'm not sure what more you'd want when looking for a player to complement a skilled first line.

 

[Unsustainable]

@Baxterman is just sour on Ferland because he produced points at a better rate than Monahan at 5v5.

Dude has 23g 45p in his last 80gp, with a lot of time spent in a bottom 6 role and without a ton of PP time.

He's fast, he can hit, he can fight, he can pass, and he can shoot. I'm not sure what more you'd want when looking for a player to complement a skilled first line.

I’m loving his game with Aho and Turbo

 

[FreshSeabass]

Yup Aho at center is a play maker who has desperately needed a a guy who can finish and Ferland is that guy which is great.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Aside from the one Flames fan who hangs around our board, productively I may add, things are too confrontational between two fan bases in opposite conferences with no rivalry whatsoever. There’s simultaneous pumping of the newly acquired players and dumping of the departing players, and you know it’s for the purpose of feeling better about the trade. I’ve seen a lot of trashing of Hamilton and in particular, Ferland. Some Carolina have forgotten Hanifin’s value is derived from what he can be at age 24, not what he is at age 21.

The older I get, the more I don’t understand HF's obsession with declaring winners and losers. These transactions are not zero-sum. I hope Hanifin and Lindholm reach their potential in Calgary. If that means Carolina “lost” the trade, so be it.

My god, this. The minute the trade was announced, it was obvious that both teams were making the move based on their own strengths and weaknesses, plus contract situations, NOT to try and rip each other off for the better player.

It’s completely plausible that both teams end up happy with this deal. If for some reason that doesn’t pan out, it certainly won’t be because of something that happens in the first season afterward. Whatever happens with Fox, the development of Hanifin and Lindholm, and the various contracts involved will all play into the final evaluation. It’s much, much, much too early for anyone on either side to talk about “winners” and “losers”.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It’s completely plausible that both teams end up happy with this deal. If for some reason that doesn’t pan out, it certainly won’t be because of something that happens in the first season afterward. Whatever happens with Fox, the development of Hanifin and Lindholm, and the various contracts involved will all play into the final evaluation. It’s much, much, much too early for anyone on either side to talk about “winners” and “losers”.

It's usually the "losers" that say stuff like that.

 

[super6646]

It's usually the "losers" that say stuff like that.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

 

[super6646]

Nah, I think my song of choice is better

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Nah, I like my song of choice better

So you are publicly admitting you have poor taste in music?

 

[super6646]

So you are publicly admitting you have poor taste in music?

You can think of it however you like

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I was clearly kidding. ABBA is the band that nobody admits to liking, yet everyone can sing most of their songs. Mamma Mia is a fantastic musical though and covers many of their hits.

Still, I'm a Tom Petty fan from way back so gotta go with him.