Confirmed with Link: Meyers Re-Signed(1x$775k)

[RockLobster]

Macdermid's positive influence on this team was when he could fight, defend our players and have other team be scared to do any anything dumb but once he got knocked out last time I saw him fight I knew that it was all over for him. Just like Landy in his early years I was so glad he did not drop his glows against Lucic way back when in Boston.

When exactly has MacDermid ever exhibited a positive influence on the team in the way you described?

This mindset of a player like MacDermid being necessary to "defend star players and have [the] other team be scared to do anything dumb..." is both antiquated and inaccurate in today's game.

For one, MacDermid has never gone out after a big hit and done anything. In fact I believe we've seen, over the years, other players dishing out the fighting retribution when the Avs think a hit/play was dirty. In addition, MacDermid--like any other face puncher (Reaves, et al) is never going to be on the ice with the star players in order to exact some immediate retribution in the face of a dangerous hit/play. This is the same argument that I heard on NHL Network Radio after the Leafs signed Reaves. There was one guy, I think Mike Johnston, who was just shutting that shit down. He had no time for that pointless mindset.

These guys don't do anything other than take up a roster spot and (at times valuable) cap space.

 

[henchman21]

To an extent I think people are a little too hard on Meyers. He hasn't lived up to his billing and he might just be a AAAA sort of player. This idea that he's a complete disaster though is a bit much. There are a lot of underlying stats that are pretty positive. His corsi, fenwick, scoring chances, and high danger chances against rates were all either the best or top 3 amongst forwards who played 200 minutes. His for rates, not amazing... but in that Newhook/Eller realm. His shot assists rates were high... passes to the slot were high.

Where Meyers really struggled (along with his linemates) was finishing. The Avs shot 5.5% while he was on the ice... and this is counting a couple gifts. So really that should be high 4s. That is an absurdly low number in the NHL, especially when you look at his micro impacts. The shot assists and passes to the slot rates are high. Those usually drive goals. His individual high danger shots and chances were high. Nothing just ever went in the net. Part of that could be his linemates (LOC and Cogs were his most common), part of that could be bad luck... and part of that might just be who he is as a player. There is a real potential his work and play doesn't actually drive any finishing. If that is the case, this will be his last contract here and he's likely an AHL star sort of guy. But if the finishing clicks this year, the production could dramatically tick up. He has all the underlyings of a 1.5-1.6 points per 60 player with solid defensive impact... the finishing just has to be there.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

It kind of feels like Meyers is a momentum player. He looked like a much more effective player when we first signed him after coming off a great last NCAA season and then he carried that into the World Championships. This year he didn't have that momentum and he struggled to start the season. He looked much better (IMO) in the second half call up, once he had got some momentum behind him with some solid play in the AHL.

 

[the_fan]

Kovalenko is not on the roster as he was loaned back to Torpedo.

Yeah I forgot he was loaned back, but still Avs have to work with assumptions that Kovalenko is gonna make the roster in February or March and they’ll only have about a mill unless they make a trade or something

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Yeah I forgot he was loaned back, but still Avs have to work with assumptions that Kovalenko is gonna make the roster in February or March and they’ll only have about a mill unless they make a trade or something

They can just send someone down and give him that roster spot. They don't have to even think about Kovalenko at this point.

 

[henchman21]

It kind of feels like Meyers is a momentum player. He looked like a much more effective player when we first signed him after coming off a great last NCAA season and then he carried that into the World Championships. This year he didn't have that momentum and he struggled to start the season. He looked much better (IMO) in the second half call up, once he had got some momentum behind him with some solid play in the AHL.

I personally thought his best stint with the Avs was his run in December when the injuries mounted, he got to play with guys who had a bit more natural skill (Foudy, Hudon, and Malgin), and his ice time increased. That was only a ~8-9 game stretch but his minutes were up and the underlying was there.... still zero finishing. But I think that was his best stretch and I think some momentum plays into that. Needs to be more in a groove and comfortable with his linemates who have a bit of natural skill. That may never come for him here though. He's not gonna get handed middle 6 minutes outside of a rash of injuries, he's gonna have to steal them from someone.

 

[The Abusement Park]

To an extent I think people are a little too hard on Meyers. He hasn't lived up to his billing and he might just be a AAAA sort of player. This idea that he's a complete disaster though is a bit much. There are a lot of underlying stats that are pretty positive. His corsi, fenwick, scoring chances, and high danger chances against rates were all either the best or top 3 amongst forwards who played 200 minutes. His for rates, not amazing... but in that Newhook/Eller realm. His shot assists rates were high... passes to the slot were high.

Where Meyers really struggled (along with his linemates) was finishing. The Avs shot 5.5% while he was on the ice... and this is counting a couple gifts. So really that should be high 4s. That is an absurdly low number in the NHL, especially when you look at his micro impacts. The shot assists and passes to the slot rates are high. Those usually drive goals. His individual high danger shots and chances were high. Nothing just ever went in the net. Part of that could be his linemates (LOC and Cogs were his most common), part of that could be bad luck... and part of that might just be who he is as a player. There is a real potential his work and play doesn't actually drive any finishing. If that is the case, this will be his last contract here and he's likely an AHL star sort of guy. But if the finishing clicks this year, the production could dramatically tick up. He has all the underlyings of a 1.5-1.6 points per 60 player with solid defensive impact... the finishing just has to be there.

I actually thought Meyers looked pretty good in the playoffs. Kinda seemed like it clicked for him a bit. Obviously there wasn’t much production but seemed like he was driving play halfway decently and creating some O-Zone pressure that he was really struggling to do at the start of the season. I don’t mind giving him the start of the year to see if he can stick in the bottom 6.

 

[hawk30]

Bit early to sell on a player after his first full pro season

 

[ABasin]

To an extent I think people are a little too hard on Meyers. He hasn't lived up to his billing and he might just be a AAAA sort of player. This idea that he's a complete disaster though is a bit much. There are a lot of underlying stats that are pretty positive. His corsi, fenwick, scoring chances, and high danger chances against rates were all either the best or top 3 amongst forwards who played 200 minutes. His for rates, not amazing... but in that Newhook/Eller realm. His shot assists rates were high... passes to the slot were high.

Where Meyers really struggled (along with his linemates) was finishing. The Avs shot 5.5% while he was on the ice... and this is counting a couple gifts. So really that should be high 4s. That is an absurdly low number in the NHL, especially when you look at his micro impacts. The shot assists and passes to the slot rates are high. Those usually drive goals. His individual high danger shots and chances were high. Nothing just ever went in the net. Part of that could be his linemates (LOC and Cogs were his most common), part of that could be bad luck... and part of that might just be who he is as a player. There is a real potential his work and play doesn't actually drive any finishing. If that is the case, this will be his last contract here and he's likely an AHL star sort of guy. But if the finishing clicks this year, the production could dramatically tick up. He has all the underlyings of a 1.5-1.6 points per 60 player with solid defensive impact... the finishing just has to be there.

Good post.

Yeah, I'm not so down on this guy either. He's seemingly got O'Connor hands, but I like the way he skates, and he seems to have pretty consistent effort in his game also.

Could it not be that he just needs the minutes/games at the NHL level, to better understand the nuances of where he needs to position himself in the offensive zone?

We as a group can get down on players pretty quickly at times. This dude's played barely over a half a season of NHL hockey.

 

[henchman21]

Good post.

Yeah, I'm not so down on this guy either. He's seemingly got O'Connor hands, but I like the way he skates, and he seems to have pretty consistent effort in his game also.

Could it not be that he just needs the minutes/games at the NHL level, to better understand the nuances of where he needs to position himself in the offensive zone?

We as a group can get down on players pretty quickly at times. This dude's played barely over a half a season of NHL hockey.

There could be some of the positioning aspect, but from what I see, he's mostly in the right spots and feeding the right spots. His shot is inaccurate and weak... and he gets out muscled a lot in the dirty areas. The chances are high that those areas are going to hold him back from ever being a good finisher in the NHL. But if that turns around, I think there is a decent chance he starts putting up some points. I'm not counting on it, but there are some things in the background here that point to him not being a lost cause.

Meyers won't get this run initially (I think LOC will), but him playing with Colton and Wood might not be the worst setup. Colton has a great shot and he's a great puck battler. Wood can chase down pucks and win battles too (though his finishing is also very poor). Meyers gives a 2nd option down low defensively, is a solid to good passer, transitions the puck well, and is a willing dirty area guy. His job of covering defensively while feeding Colton the puck and crashing the net might work. It also could be a disaster with Wood and Meyers both being guys who can't finish... so Colton has to Cy Young it.

FTR I don't think we are suddenly going to see a revelation here and things turn around.... but he's not a complete lost cause as gets portrayed.

 

[S E P H]

Wait we have 2 million after Landeskog LTIR or do we still have his contract to work with?

 

[Avs9296]

Wait we have 2 million after Landeskog LTIR or do we still have his contract to work with?

After his LTIR

 

[Foppa2118]

I think Meyers has struggled a bit for a lot of the same reasons Newhook and Jost struggled to fit into Bednar's system.

They're all committed to trying to play the way Bednar wants, and that requires skating your ass off, up and down the ice.

But that can be tough for some players without a pure natural athletic ability to do both that AND calm yourself mentally when you get into scoring areas to either execute a well placed hard shot, or set up a play with your vision, when your heart rate so high.

It's hard to sprint basically flat out for 40 second and keep yourself calm enough to maintain good poise with the puck and the vision to see everything developing on the ice, while keeping cognizant of tactical aspects and the spots on the ice Bednar wants them to go to.

Seems as though the players that have fit best on this team are the ones with high end athleticism like Nate, Mikko, Kadri, Val, LOC, Cogs, even Landy and Burakovksy to an extent. Athleticism isn't just being able to skate fast, it comes with a strength element, and an endurance to do it night in and night out. Even more so to generate enough energy to move that way with a bigger body.

And if you're a younger player you don't have the benefit of experience, or the confidence that goes with knowing you've had some level of success in the NHL for years, to help make up for average or slightly above average athleticism playing Bednar's system.

Losing confidence is a big part of why we saw some regression in guys like Newhook and Jost. They didn't become worse players. Meyers looked like he lost a bit of confidence to me last year.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Meyers looked good and like he could compete for a 3rd line spot during his brief cup of coffee after signing. He looked like dog-shit in camp and never quite looked as comfortable as he did the previous spring. I have no idea what happened to him over last summer, but I'm hoping this summer is much more kind to him.

 

[NMAvsman]

Main thing I want out of him initially is what 4th liner centers need to do:
PK, sustain forecheck, and win faceoffs.
I think he can and will do all of the above effectively this year (fingers crossed).

 

[Foppa2118]

Meyers looked good and like he could compete for a 3rd line spot during his brief cup of coffee after signing. He looked like dog-shit in camp and never quite looked as comfortable as he did the previous spring. I have no idea what happened to him over last summer, but I'm hoping this summer is much more kind to him.

I think these guys like Jost, Newhook, and Meyers get in their own heads a little too much.

The way they played before isn't working as well as hoped, but they looked better early on because their confidence was high coming out of college where they had some success in a bigger role.

Then when they try to make small adjustments and play a little different in a more bottom six role, it still doesn't work quite as well as hoped.

Then they start to lose confidence since nothing appears to be working and they end up playing worse. Hopefully this summer will be a good mental reset for Meyers.

 

[henchman21]

Meyers looked good and like he could compete for a 3rd line spot during his brief cup of coffee after signing. He looked like dog-shit in camp and never quite looked as comfortable as he did the previous spring. I have no idea what happened to him over last summer, but I'm hoping this summer is much more kind to him.

Yeah his camp was utter garbage and that’s why he got sent down within a few games.

 

[AvsMakar08]

So what’s the remaining cap space for the Avs? Capfriendly says 2 mill but don’t think that’s accurate

When exactly has MacDermid ever exhibited a positive influence on the team in the way you described?

This mindset of a player like MacDermid being necessary to "defend star players and have [the] other team be scared to do anything dumb..." is both antiquated and inaccurate in today's game.

For one, MacDermid has never gone out after a big hit and done anything. In fact I believe we've seen, over the years, other players dishing out the fighting retribution when the Avs think a hit/play was dirty. In addition, MacDermid--like any other face puncher (Reaves, et al) is never going to be on the ice with the star players in order to exact some immediate retribution in the face of a dangerous hit/play. This is the same argument that I heard on NHL Network Radio after the Leafs signed Reaves. There was one guy, I think Mike Johnston, who was just shutting that shit down. He had no time for that pointless mindset.

These guys don't do anything other than take up a roster spot and (at times valuable) cap space.

So what is a point of signing MacDermid if he is horrible at defense and is not good at offense? I never meant to say that he would fight the opponent after a big check. All I was saying that other teams players would think twice before making a hard or dirty hit against any of our Avs players. He was a preventative measure as I see it and Bedzie would probably not let him off the leash as taking extra penalties would decrease the Avs chances of winning that game.

But this season after we got bigger and a little tougher after getting Colton and Wood we might not be be seeing MacDermid in lineup as we did the previous seasons. We shall see.

 

[RockLobster]

So what is a point of signing MacDermid if he is horrible at defense and is not good at offense? I never meant to say that he would fight the opponent after a big check. All I was saying that other teams players would think twice before making a hard or dirty hit against any of our Avs players. He was a preventative measure as I see it and Bedzie would probably not let him off the leash as taking extra penalties would decrease the Avs chances of winning that game.

But this season after we got bigger and a little tougher after getting Colton and Wood we might not be be seeing MacDermid in lineup as we did the previous seasons. We shall see.

There was no point. The “value” he allegedly provides is not worth the cap space or roster spot.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

There was no point. The “value” he allegedly provides is not worth the cap space or roster spot.

Meh, there was actually a point where he was no worse than the other crap we were putting on the 4th line. But at closer to 1M, there are definitely cheaper options and, in my opinion, now better options in the system.

I prefer Hunt as a Dman and Malinsky is going to be pushing from what we saw last spring. As for forward, I'd much rather have Foudy called up. Hell, Burke would be a better option now than KMac.

KMac should only be used for one reason, and I have come to detest that reason. I don't want enforcerers in hockey anymore. I want players who will stand up for themselves and their team-mates when, and only if, necessary but there's just not room for a goon anymore. Especially when you are trying to give a coach a 4th line that he can trust for more than 4 minutes a night.

 

[RockLobster]

Meh, there was actually a point where he was no worse than the other crap we were putting on the 4th line. But at closer to 1M, there are definitely cheaper options and, in my opinion, now better options in the system.

I prefer Hunt as a Dman and Malinsky is going to be pushing from what we saw last spring. As for forward, I'd much rather have Foudy called up. Hell, Burke would be a better option now than KMac.

KMac should only be used for one reason, and I have come to detest that reason. I don't want enforcerers in hockey anymore. I want players who will stand up for themselves and their team-mates when, and only if, necessary but there's just not room for a goon anymore. Especially when you are trying to give a coach a 4th line that he can trust for more than 4 minutes a night.

I think it says a lot about how Bednar--a former career minor leaguer facepuncher--goes to extreme lengths to not play MacDermid. It says a lot about how the role of an "enforcer" is generally viewed in the league as it is today. It's an antiquated role and just not really needed.

Now, given that the Avs won the Cup after trading for MacDermid, who knows what type of alignment of the stars happens if they never acquire him. Perhaps something in that locker room never happens to get the players all to completely buy in, etc. So because we have a Cup, I'll take the trade off. BUT...it was a bad trade for the value given up, and one of the rarer Joe mistakes to extend him at nearly a million dollars. We all say things like "Meh, at least it's buriable..." but the FO has to be willing to bury someone for that to have any meaning, and they don't appear willing to do that for MacDermid.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Macdermids value doesn’t come from the fact that he face punches.
It comes from the Avs not having to carry an extra D and extra F during the season.

It kinda seems ironic, but Macdermid actually saves you cap. No matter what, if it wasn’t Macdermid, the Avs would call up, or have rostered guys to play 5 minutes. Instead, they only keep the 1 body up, Macdermid, and he plays his 5 minutes on D or forward.

Now, with LTIR, it doesn’t matter as much. But it’s still a small benefit.
As a player, no use. But he does provide cap value.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Macdermids value doesn’t come from the fact that he face punches.
It comes from the Avs not having to carry an extra D and extra F during the season.

It kinda seems ironic, but Macdermid actually saves you cap. No matter what, if it wasn’t Macdermid, the Avs would call up, or have rostered guys to play 5 minutes. Instead, they only keep the 1 body up, Macdermid, and he plays his 5 minutes on D or forward.

Now, with LTIR, it doesn’t matter as much. But it’s still a small benefit.
As a player, no use. But he does provide cap value.

Hunt is 225K cheaper and can play 4th line wing as well and in my opinion is the better player.

 

[Sea Eagles]

Meyers was all fight and tenacity. He'll have such a professional cast / skill around him, he'll start to produce, you guys just watch.

Could see him scoring 25-35 this season, as we have more depth.

 

[Pokecheque]

To an extent I think people are a little too hard on Meyers. He hasn't lived up to his billing and he might just be a AAAA sort of player. This idea that he's a complete disaster though is a bit much. There are a lot of underlying stats that are pretty positive. His corsi, fenwick, scoring chances, and high danger chances against rates were all either the best or top 3 amongst forwards who played 200 minutes. His for rates, not amazing... but in that Newhook/Eller realm. His shot assists rates were high... passes to the slot were high.

Where Meyers really struggled (along with his linemates) was finishing. The Avs shot 5.5% while he was on the ice... and this is counting a couple gifts. So really that should be high 4s. That is an absurdly low number in the NHL, especially when you look at his micro impacts. The shot assists and passes to the slot rates are high. Those usually drive goals. His individual high danger shots and chances were high. Nothing just ever went in the net. Part of that could be his linemates (LOC and Cogs were his most common), part of that could be bad luck... and part of that might just be who he is as a player. There is a real potential his work and play doesn't actually drive any finishing. If that is the case, this will be his last contract here and he's likely an AHL star sort of guy. But if the finishing clicks this year, the production could dramatically tick up. He has all the underlyings of a 1.5-1.6 points per 60 player with solid defensive impact... the finishing just has to be there.

So f***ing frustrating. After watching Jost and Newhook more or less flame out in the NHL because their skating wasn't up to snuff, here we had a guy who had NHL-level speed to spare, and then proceed to watch him struggle mightily for other reasons.

I think there might still be a player in there somewhere, but what's worrisome is that scoring of some sort is really the only way he'll ever be an impactful NHL player. His defensive game is nowhere near good enough to fall back on. He's either gotta figure out how to help put the puck in the net or he'll just be a tweener journeyman.